West 8 景观总监 Donna Bridgeman：对抗千篇一律的“相似性”｜ASLA'23 专访

2024-05-06 00:05

重塑建筑精神

2024/05/06

‘独特’并不是那么容易就做到的，因为很多项目的材料或者产品都是现成的、相似的。

如何真的做到‘独一无二’？

如果你关注景观建筑学，一定听过West 8 —— 国际知名的景观设计公司。West 8成立于1987年，总部位于荷兰，由Adriaan Geuze和Paul van Beek共同创立。与传统景观不同，West 8从大尺度的城市设计和景观规划出发，以创新性和可持续性闻名。他们的设计理念融合了自然与人工环境的元素，创造美观、宜居、功能强大的公共空间，项目涵盖城市公园、滨水区、城市广场和景观改造等不同领域。

作为全球领先的景观设计公司，West 8与政府、城市规划机构、开发商等合作，透过独特的视角与设计切人点关注环境，主要项目包括著名的美国纽约总督岛公园，荷兰鹿特丹库尔辛格大街改造，休斯顿植物园，上海张江艺术公园，墨西哥巴雅尔塔湾海滨景观，以及多伦多滨水公园等。

在赢得美国纽约总督岛国际设计竞赛后，West8成立了北美第一家分部，该项目也获得了ASLA分析与规划类荣誉奖。在West8 扩大北美团队，寻求更多国际合作之时，我们邀请到了West 8的设计总监Donna Bridgeman，从West 8的团队组成、合作方式以及发展计划切入，探讨景观设计中如何对抗千篇一律的“相似性”。

West8 Logo

West8 知名项目作品

本期嘉宾

Donna Bridgeman-Rossi

West 8 景观设计总监, PLA

公司荣誉

Global Award for Sustainable Architecture TM

ASLA Professional Awards

The International Urban Landscape Gold Award

The Bijhouwer Award

The Green Pin

The Veronica Rudge Green Prize for Urban Design

The Lifetime Achievement Award for Architecture of the Mondriaan Fund

采访/文案 Interview & Record｜Yiyuan Shao (HGA 景观设计师)

Magic Sun (Coen Partner 景观设计师)

编辑 Editor｜Yiyuan Shao

对抗千篇一律的“相似性”

THE GOAL OF FIGHTING SAMENESS

您在ASLA大会的分享中提到有一个有趣的观点，是关于设计的“相似性”。能否详细的讲述一下West 8 德雷克塞尔广场的案例和休斯顿植物园的两个设计是否打破了这种“相似性”？

There is another interesting point in the session you mentioned at ASLA is about sameness. Do you think Toronto Waterfront and Houston Botanic Garden achieve the goal of fighting sameness?

Donna: 这很难说，因为有很多方法可以比较项目，比如类型学、设计和施工过程等。一个公园、一个花园或一段水滨常常被由此归类，总会有内在的相同性。尽管我们有幸与想法不同的客户合作，我们的工作方式是通过传统的合同流程，保护机构、政府、赞助人、客户等不同关系的构建方式也可能导致雷同。

Donna: It’s difficult to say, because there are so many ways to compare projects together, from discussions of typology, design, and construction. Because a park, a garden, or a waterfront, is categorized as a typology there will always be an inherent sameness. Although we have been fortunate to work with clients who think differently from the outset, the way we build and contract work is through a traditional contractual process; the way a client relationship is structured as a conservancy, government agency, or individual patron also could lead to sameness.

德雷克塞尔广场© West8

以德雷克塞尔广场项目为例，这个设计是将费城具有纪念意义的第30街车站对面的地面停车场改造成一个充满活力的绿色空间，促进社区参与和协作。West8和SHOP Architects与私人开发商和机构合作，打造了这个高品质的公共空间。

Taking the project of Drexel Square as an example, like what I mentioned yesterday, this design transforms the parking lot opposite the Philadelphia’s 30th Street Station into a vibrant green space, fostering community engagement and collaboration.

该项目的灵感来自威廉佩恩——将费城公园视为城市会客厅的历史愿景：让人们聚集，休息并在自然世界中焕发活力。椭圆形的草坪上装饰着八条混凝土丝带，这样的几何图案来源于墨卡托投影（墨卡托是一种等角圆柱地图投影，最初是为了显示海上旅行的精确罗盘方位而创建的。该投影的特点是所有局部形状都是准确的。）几何的分割不仅增强了区域间的连接性，还将公共空间划分的恰到好处。从类型学上讲，这个项目可能并没有很好的对抗“相似性”。但是从工作方式上来讲，客户是开发商，也是一所大学，这种公私合作的关系还是非常少见的。所以，这个项目在另外一个层面也很好的对抗了“相似性”。

We created eight concrete paths in this elliptical lawn. This kind of Mecator pattern not only enhance connectivity between areas but also divides the public space appropriately. This design looks simple, but the collaboration method is unique: the client was a developer and a university; a public-private partnership which is a rare occurrence. We collaborated with some private developers and institutions to create this high-quality public space. Although from typology stand point, it might look similar. But the way of collaboration is unique.

休斯顿植物园 © West8

休斯顿植物园是一个非常典型的项目。它的客户是由家族慷慨捐助的慈善事业团体组成。尽管它是一个公共花园，但也很好的对抗了相似性。

Another example of unique collaboration would be the Houston Botanic Garden. The client group was a group led philanthropic effort with funding being generously contributed by individuals and families, although it is a public garden, which could also be seen as going against similarity.

这个项目的目标是打造一个体现休斯顿独特气候的景观：因为休斯顿会有冰冻天气，由于气候变化，墨西哥湾暖流被迫向南移动，这将继续导致冰冻现象。这一独特的条件为植物提供了宝贵资源。另外，该项目将休斯顿的本土水道融入整体概念中，提供了直接的景观特征。整个项目的设计初衷都是在因地制宜，寻求植物、土壤、地形、材料等之间的平衡。这是休斯顿独有的体验，是独一无二的。

The ambition was a collection that spoke to the uniqueness of the Houston climate because it does freeze and it's going to continue to freeze due to the Gulf Stream being pushed down by climate change, a unique parameter in which to provide a library of living plants. Additionally, the project integrates Houston's waterways into the overall concept, providing an immediate landscape feature. The original design intention of the entire project is to adapt to local conditions and seek a balance between plants, soil, terrain, materials, etc. This is a uniquely Houston experience.

休斯顿植物园© West8

然而“独特”并不是那么容易就做到的，因为很多项目的材料或者产品都是现成的、相似的，例如随处可见的切割石材。这就很容易产生“相似性”。

But to your point, there are a lot of material and ‘off-the-shelf’ components to these projects that are ‘the same,’ for example cut stone; you see that everywhere. What I hoped to speak to was the little twists and ways we can intervene as Landscape Architects.

就像在为休斯顿的花园设计和建造的入口喷泉时，如果定制精确尺寸的石材，会产生大量的材料浪费，不仅需要额外资金，喷泉也会失去材料的丰富性和表现力。基于低影响开发的理念，我们便与合作的团队寻找废弃材料：我们的团队当时与石材供应商一起飞去了多米加共和国，在那里我们找到了这种叫做卡利普索珊瑚石的石灰岩。我们从场地上手工挑选了64块卡利普索珊瑚块来制作绿墙: 在这些表面凹凸不平的石材中，我们挑选了一些有凹槽或者有洞的石材，还有一些在不同程度上嵌入某种土壤的石材。对于这64块石材的细节把控，使得整个水景墙的设计变得与众不同。

For example the entrance fountain that was designed and built for the garden. For exact dimensional stone there would have been a significant amount of material waste and additional funding required. The fountain also would have lost the richness and expression of the material. We worked with our team to source waste material; Our team flew to the Dominican Republic with our stone supplier, where we found this limestone called calypso coral stone. We hand-selected 64 calypso coral blocks from the site to create the green wall: among these stones with uneven surfaces, we selected some with grooves or holes, and some with soil in it. The detailed control of these 64 stones makes the design of the entire water feature wall unique.

休斯顿植物园旧石复用© 图源网络

另外，这些石材通常是废弃的表面材料，因为它的表面并不平整干净（更深更规则的石材更收青睐），而形成这有特色的表面的原因正是与休斯顿气候相似的潮湿热带气候：这些石块受到风蚀，土壤沉积，盐分等其他条件的影响，形成了它独特的肌理。由于这一特性，再考虑到提供水源以及为植物提供生长有利条件，我们看到了以不同方式使用材料的机会——采石场表层具有肌理的石材，看似是废料，但却让这座水景墙变得独一无二。

Besides that, these stones are wastes because the surface is not smooth and clean (deeper and more regular stones are preferred.), and the reason for this distinctive surface is the humid tropical climate similar to that of Houston. : These stones are affected by wind erosion, soil deposition, salt and other conditions, forming its unique texture.Given the priority to move water and to host plants we saw an opportunity to employ a material differently, working within our parameters but looking for that little twist.

休斯顿植物园© West8

第二自然

SECOND NATURE

我们想谈谈景观设计理念和方法。众所周知，自成立之日起，“可持续”一直是West 8的重中之重，你们是通过哪些策略实现“第二自然”的目标呢？

We’d like to chat about some design concepts and approaches. As we know from the day West 8 was founded, sustainability has been at the forefront of the firm's work. What are the strategies West 8 typically uses to achieve the goal of second nature?

Donna: 可能很难解释我们所做事情的广度。自公司成立以来，我们所有项目的本质都是倾听各个专业人士的意见，包括土地、系统、生态、社会、经济和基础设施等，观察规律并确保通过景观设计师的视角阅读所有信息。在这个大的背景下，或者说全局性的方法下，我们进行调整、增加但从不删除。这始终是我们设计的出发点。我们不希望带给场地毫不相干的东西，而是坚信理解场地肌理，才能带来成功的设计。

Donna: It might be difficult to explain the breadth of what we do, but inherent in all our projects - since the inception of the firm - has been the element of listening to the people that are at the table, to the land, the systems, ecological, social, economic, and infrastructure, observing patterns and making sure you're reading all of this information through the lens of a landscape architect. Within this larger context – or systemic approach - we make adjustments, adding but never erasing. This is always the point of departure; we don’t bring something not of the place, but instead believe that the context needs to be understood for our design to be successful.

“第二自然”不是关于现在正在发生什么，而是关于看到这些事物的不同层面，并将可能的层面交织在一起。

Reading the layer of second nature, it's not about what's going on right now, but it's about seeing the layers and interweaving them together with what is possible.

用一个案例解释这一切是如何运用于实践的：项目位于荷兰南部的泽兰，在这条连接海防的大型基础设施高速公路边，West 8 创造了一种大地艺术形式，对开车的人来说是一种具有标志性的、令人兴奋，但同时也对场地是一种很好的介入，并且非常巧妙地融入了当地环境。这一些列的高台不仅为行驶在风暴潮防护堤上的汽车提供了引人入胜的图案视角，它也丰富了鸟类栖息地，并将海景全景展现在眼前。

A good project to explain would be one of our earliest, in the south of the Netherlands, in Zeeland. Within this large infrastructural motorway, connecting to the coastal defense, West 8 created a form of land art, something iconic and exciting to the driver, but also sensitive to the land and incredibly integrated within the place. Five years after the works on the Eastern Scheldt storm surge barrier were completed, West 8 designed the surrounding landscape of the Eastern Scheldt by ironing out the sand depots and covering these vast plateaus with shells. These beds are the ideal rest place for the black and white coastal birds which seek to camouflage in the landscape at high tide.

我们收集了数千磅的黑色贻贝壳和白色蛤壳，将它们铺设成美丽的条纹，就像大地上规模令人难以置信的冰川条痕。这个项目实在东施尔德风暴潮防护堤完工五年后完成的。West8 设计了东施尔德周边的景观，将沙堆修整平整，并用贝壳覆盖这些广阔的高台。这些贝壳床是黑白相间的海岸鸟类理想的休息地；它们会在涨潮时的景观中伪装自己——这是一种关于鸟类的筑巢模式，当它们开始在贝壳中栖息和繁殖时，条纹图案开始逐渐混合，自然再次回归。

We collected thousands of pounds of black mussel shells and white clam shells, delineated into beautiful stripes, like striations across the land at an incredible scale. The project was about the nesting patterns of the birds, and, as the birds start to inhabit and populate the ridged pattern, the lines start to mix, and the site returns to nature once more.

作为一种宣言，这是一种你很少再看到的精致而独特的东西。我很高兴在一家从事此类项目的公司，这种思维能力是我们设计的基础。

I think that – as a statement - that's something exquisite and exceptional that you rarely see anymore. I'm happy that I work at a firm that did those kinds of projects, where that caliber of thinking is our fundamental and our baseline.

当我们谈论景观设计的“可持续性”时，我们很容易被工具包、基准和标准所束缚。在这种视角下，完成上述“以创新的方式利用废料”的项目会很困难。建筑行业最大的污染物之一是施工垃圾。我们学科地研究所有正在发挥作用的系统会产生怎样的废料，并在可能的情况下进行干预，做出一些不同的、更适合当地的东西。这并不总是容易实现的——我们经常尝试用一些小方法逆势而行，悄悄地进行适配性的重复使用，或我们力所能及的可持续效益，使每个人受益。

When we talk about ‘Sustainability’ as landscape architecture, there is a temptation to be locked into the toolkits, the benchmarks and criteria. Within that lens, it can be hard to do a project like this, which at its core is about using a waste material in an innovative way. For example, one of the biggest pollutants from the building industry is construction waste. Our discipline can look at what the waste products are of all the systems at play, intervene where possible, and make something a little different and more responsive to your locale. It’s not always possible – and we often try in small ways to buck the trend and sneak these kind of adaptive reuse, or sustainable benefits where we can, to benefit everyone.

@West8

感谢分享这个别具一格的项目，作为景观建筑师，我们确实需要将低影响开发整合到独特的设计中。不仅是我们，其他学科也是如此。我们身处同一个世界，面临着同样的问题，需要将可持续性作为目标。West 8是如何通过多学科合作来实现这一目标的？

Thanks for sharing this unique project. Not only for us, but also for other disciplines, we’re in the same world and we’re having the same issue. We all need to set sustainability as the goal. In terms of this shared goal, we wonder how multi-disciplines work to achieve the shared goal as West 8 is an international firm of several talented architects, urban designers, landscape architects, and industrial designers.

Donna：正如我刚才所说的，West 8 是一个多学科背景的工作室，团队由景观设计师、建筑师、城市设计师和规划师、工业设计师、生态学家，甚至受过农学和工程学培训的人员组成。这不仅因为我们在图层和系统中运用了大量 GIS，以及使用 Revit 进行 BIM 建模，更重要的是，我们通过多学科经验建立更广阔的视角，将多种可能性汇集起来。

Donna: When we describe West 8 as a multi-disciplinary studio, it means that our team is comprised of landscape architects, architects, urban designers and planners, industrial designers, ecologists, even people trained in agronomy and engineering. It’s not just that we use a lot of GIS for layers and system, and that we can work across BIM modeling with Revit, but our multidisciplinary experience is a wide palette, a cross-over of all the avenues.

自公司成立以来，West 8 一直工作在景观设计专业的“边缘”（多学科交叉）。位于阿姆斯特丹东港改造项目 (Borneo-Sporenburg) 是多学科交叉的一个重要案例，它的最终品质是通过景观设计师视角下，对所有建筑突破本质的协同指挥与调配实现的。这个项目

Since the founding of the firm, West 8 has always worked on the fringe of the profession of ‘Landscape Architecture’. Borneo-Sporenburg in the Eastern Docklands of Amsterdam is a case-study for so many disciplines, but it’s defining quality is due to the groundbreaking nature of all of the Architecture being orchestrated through the lens of a Landscape Architect. West 8 led their transformation into one residential district with 2500 mainly low-rise dwellings, in a high density of 100 units per hectare.

在这个工作流程中，West 8 的每个人都能参与和相互协作。办公室里的各学科之间完全没有界限。这种心态与工作方式使我们能够与不同学科的专业人士建立对话，在面对更广泛的职业（从工程师和顾问到合作伙伴、客户）时，建立共同话题与高效理解。

Within this workflow, today, every single person at West 8 is expected to be able to engage and collaborate with each other. There are no boundaries between the disciplines in the office - at all. This mindset enables us to create a dialogue with the professionals of those disciplines, a shared language and efficiency of understanding when it comes to wider professions, from engineers and consultants to partners and clients.

工作在景观设计专业的“边缘”

ABOUT WEST 8

West 8 总部位于荷兰鹿特丹，赢得纽约总督岛公园国际设计竞赛后设立了北美办公室，您认为欧洲和美国项目在设计重点和项目类型上有何异同？West 8的团队成员是如何协同合作，实现跨学科协作的呢？

West 8 is based in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, and established its North American office after winning an international design competition for Governors Island Park (an icon for the city, a beacon in the harbor). What are the similarities and differences in design focus and project types between European and U.S. projects? How do people usually work as a team to work on different projects?

Donna: West 8 的组成结构是北美办公室10 人，加上鹿特丹总部和比利时办公室，共计80余人。员工们分别来自 18-19 个不同国家。当我们在鹿特丹和费城之间开展项目时，跨地域、跨文化、跨学科的交流使得团队能够获得更广泛的反馈。费城团队每天下班时，我们会进行工作移交和同步，以便在另一端项目可以继续进行。这样的工作模式可以实现快节奏、高效率的运作。在过去的几年里，大家都适应了这种跨时区的工作模式，也很大程度上避免了开车与航空飞行的能源浪费。

Donna: The North American office is only around 10 people, but together with our headquarters in Rotterdam and the Belgium office, our studio includes about 80 people, with anywhere between 18 to 19 different countries represented by the staff. , As we work on every project between the two offices (Rotterdam and Philadelphia), it enables us to get input from a wide range of backgrounds and cultures. When our team logs off for the day, we handover and synchronize so the projects can continue to develop. Its fast-paced, but efficient. In the last few years, everyone's caught up with us in regards to working across time-zones and being efficient with fuel and flights.

疫情期间，北美办公室在项目现场或家中远程工作，借此机会我们了解到员工的生活和工作方式，于是决定将办公室搬到费城。搬家既是为了将我们的设计理念付诸实践，比如人性化的尺度、美丽的街景，又是为了让更多不同背景的人能够步行到公司上班。

During the Pandemic, the North American Office was working remote, either on site or from their homes and we took the opportunity to look at our employee’s quality of life, how people were living and working, and decided to move the office to Philadelphia. Relocating was about putting into practice what we design for, the human scale, the beautiful streetscape, and was to allow more people from broader backgrounds to be able to work at the firm, where everyone could walk to the office.

我们项目的成功很大程度上取决于与当地社区的携手共建，与生活在这个地区、了解当地方言、制作方式、建造方式、思考方式的人们合作。现在，我们已回到办公室，并继续与跨时区和国家的其他办公室远程工作。这种模式有助于我们作为一个团队高效协同，获得最佳产出。

That being said, all of our projects succeed because we work hand in hand with local communities, the people who are on the site, have lived in this area and know the local vernacular, the way of making, the way of building, the way of thinking. For now, we’re back to the office and we continue to work remotely with other offices across time-zones and countries. This approach helps us work efficiently as a team, for the best output.

听起来不同分部之间有很多工作上的相似之处，多学科方法和远程工作对每个人都很有效。与欧洲相比，您认为北美有哪些发展机会或是限制？另外，West 8在中国开展了一些大项目，未来是否有在中国扩大与发展的计划？

It sounds like there are many similarities between different sites. The multidisciplinary approach and also the remote work works well for everyone. Compared with the team in Europe, do you think is there any development opportunities/constraints for North America? We also noticed that the West 8 has been working on some great projects in China. We wonder if West 8 has any plans to expand and develop in China.

Donna：说到限制，我们必须对北美工作室的项目有所选择，因为我们的工作方式是沉浸式的，需要与社区当地的人协同合作。在某种程度上，这就像冲浪——你和熟悉水域的人一起准备，然后你和他们一起跳上去，倾听他们的声音，帮助他们在社区中创作一些美好的事情。我们正在寻找更多的机会和合作扩展工作范围，但要也要考虑团队可以承担的工作量。

Donna: As for constraints, we have to be selective about what projects we do from our North American studio because our work is so immersive, the approach of working hand in hand alongside local people. In a way, it’s like surfing - you prepare for the wave together with someone who knows the waters, and then you jump on with them, listen to them, and help them realize something good in their community. We’re looking for more opportunities and collaborations to expand, but within the realities of how much we can accomplish within our team.

在鹿特丹总部，我们有一支中国团队，他们专注于城市地标项目十多年。我们与中国的一些优质客户有着非常良好的关系，并致力于精品花园、滨水公园、大型城市规划和可持续发展框架等项目。以我个人经验及从团队学到的来说，构建长期的合作关系十分重要。在 West 8，我们会勇于在现场表达自己的想法，在整个施工和执行阶段都在场，以确保每个细节的实现。我们期待继续扩大和发展在中国的优质项目合作。

Within the Rotterdam office, we have a Chinese team that has been working for over a decade on landmark projects. We have a very good relationship with some select clients in China, working on projects from boutique garden design, waterfront parks, and large-scale urban planning and sustainability frameworks. From my own experience and learning from the team, the relationship of building timeframe is very intense. At West 8, we have never been afraid to have our voice on site, for our team to be present across the construction and execution phases to ensure that the vision to the details is delivered. We are looking forward to continuing to expand and develop our portfolio of quality work in China.

在北美办公室，我们的团队负责美洲地区的多个项目，包括墨西哥、乌拉圭和阿根廷的新工作。

Within the North American office, our team works across projects within the larger Americas, including new work in Mexico, Uruguay and also Argentina.

我们非常欣赏这种跨地域，跨文化，跨学科的合作方式，然而在一些多学科交织的大公司，建筑师会先做决定，这对景观设计师似乎并不公平。结合今年ASLA 「Scale Up」的主题，您对刚入行的景观设计师有什么建议？

Thank you for the introduction to the West 8 team composition, collaboration methods, and future development. We greatly appreciate this cross-regional, cross-cultural, and interdisciplinary approach to collaboration. However, in some multidisciplinary corporations, architects tend to make decisions first, which may seem unfair to landscape designers. In light of this year's ASLA 'Scale Up' theme, what advice do you have for landscape designers who are just starting out?

Donna: 我完全明白。作为景观设计师，我们必须更加坚强地争取我们的权利，争取我们的席位。但是，作为同时拥有M.Arch和 MLA 的人，作为景观设计师的好处在于有更广阔的视角来看待项目和工作。

Donna: I completely understand. As Landscape Architects, we have to be stronger in fighting for our case, for our seat at the table, but - as someone who has both an M.Arch and an MLA - I think the benefit of being a Landscape Architect is that we have a much wider lens in which to look at a project and to work.

当考虑环境项目及其在建筑环境中的重要性时，我对年轻专业人士的建议是多元化和协作，不断地解读、体验，与咨询团队并肩合作总是有益的。了解不同学科如何对待一个场地时非常有用的。

When we think about environmental projects, and how important they will be going forward in the built environment, my advice is to young professionals is to diversify and collaborate. Constantly reading, experiencing, and working with consulting teams as partners is always beneficial. Learning how different disciplines approach a site is useful knowledge, in order to get a wider perspective and collectively come to the best outcome possible.