d*e
2 楼
13寸3磅,15寸4磅!
a*e
3 楼
友情提醒:你忘了高压线辐射。
其实手机、无绳电话、无线网络,甚至微波炉对身体都有损害。据说陶瓷制品在烧制的
时候也有产生化学反应声称某些有害物质。所以我们家住的是cave,用的器皿都是海边
纯石头制成的。
其实手机、无绳电话、无线网络,甚至微波炉对身体都有损害。据说陶瓷制品在烧制的
时候也有产生化学反应声称某些有害物质。所以我们家住的是cave,用的器皿都是海边
纯石头制成的。
P*P
6 楼
买不起。。
现在经济又不好,结果价格只涨不跌。
下一次更新是不是入门款都得2000刀拉。
现在经济又不好,结果价格只涨不跌。
下一次更新是不是入门款都得2000刀拉。
r*t
8 楼
英国所有mac价格几乎跟美国一样。
imac上周买的学生价1649,今天卖2024.
imac上周买的学生价1649,今天卖2024.
l*e
14 楼
再来一个对号入座
发信人: shoutout (我口表我心), 信区: Beauty
标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 12:25:10 2010), 站内
据说是有点特别的。分子小,好渗透,理论是合适拿来敷面。不过我试过,觉得敷后脸
很干。
这个公司里的人还说产妇喝这个水容易下奶。
发信人: transmeta (in Springer we trust), 信区: Beauty
标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 21:09:47 2010), 站内
依云水好啊。像中国大陆这种地方的水都是大分子,在显微镜下面看起来面目可憎,毫
无生气。韩国和日本的水分子小一些,显得有灵气,而法国Evian的水,分子最小,所以
最有灵气。亨利詹姆斯称它是“出奇的蓝色的水”;拜伦则把它比喻成一面晶莹的镜子
,“有着沉思所需要的养料和空气”;巴尔扎克则把它说成是“爱情的同义词”。用它
补水,吸收速度是普通水的87.53倍,而且补完后能迅速生成一层保护膜,防止水分向外
流失。
【在 d***e 的大作中提到】
: 摘自六六的小说,王贵与安娜,欢迎各位热爱健康的女士对号入座。
发信人: shoutout (我口表我心), 信区: Beauty
标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 12:25:10 2010), 站内
据说是有点特别的。分子小,好渗透,理论是合适拿来敷面。不过我试过,觉得敷后脸
很干。
这个公司里的人还说产妇喝这个水容易下奶。
发信人: transmeta (in Springer we trust), 信区: Beauty
标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 21:09:47 2010), 站内
依云水好啊。像中国大陆这种地方的水都是大分子,在显微镜下面看起来面目可憎,毫
无生气。韩国和日本的水分子小一些,显得有灵气,而法国Evian的水,分子最小,所以
最有灵气。亨利詹姆斯称它是“出奇的蓝色的水”;拜伦则把它比喻成一面晶莹的镜子
,“有着沉思所需要的养料和空气”;巴尔扎克则把它说成是“爱情的同义词”。用它
补水,吸收速度是普通水的87.53倍,而且补完后能迅速生成一层保护膜,防止水分向外
流失。
【在 d***e 的大作中提到】
: 摘自六六的小说,王贵与安娜,欢迎各位热爱健康的女士对号入座。
b*a
15 楼
哈哈。
我发现这人一到了米国就突然变得娇贵起来了。电压高的房子不能住;温度高于75小于
70的环境不能住;油漆有毒不能用;树多的房子不能要。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。
不知道这些筒子们原来在中国住的是啥桃源仙境。
我发现这人一到了米国就突然变得娇贵起来了。电压高的房子不能住;温度高于75小于
70的环境不能住;油漆有毒不能用;树多的房子不能要。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。
不知道这些筒子们原来在中国住的是啥桃源仙境。
d*2
16 楼
这个就是, 任何时代任何地点, 都有人傻钱多的机会。
一般人傻钱多最典型的就是相信“我们卖的不是xxx, 我们销售的是一种生活方式/理念
/气质/境界 blah blah".
【在 l******e 的大作中提到】
: 再来一个对号入座
: 发信人: shoutout (我口表我心), 信区: Beauty
: 标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
: 发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 12:25:10 2010), 站内
: 据说是有点特别的。分子小,好渗透,理论是合适拿来敷面。不过我试过,觉得敷后脸
: 很干。
: 这个公司里的人还说产妇喝这个水容易下奶。
: 发信人: transmeta (in Springer we trust), 信区: Beauty
: 标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
: 发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 21:09:47 2010), 站内
一般人傻钱多最典型的就是相信“我们卖的不是xxx, 我们销售的是一种生活方式/理念
/气质/境界 blah blah".
【在 l******e 的大作中提到】
: 再来一个对号入座
: 发信人: shoutout (我口表我心), 信区: Beauty
: 标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
: 发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 12:25:10 2010), 站内
: 据说是有点特别的。分子小,好渗透,理论是合适拿来敷面。不过我试过,觉得敷后脸
: 很干。
: 这个公司里的人还说产妇喝这个水容易下奶。
: 发信人: transmeta (in Springer we trust), 信区: Beauty
: 标 题: Re: 发现个补水的好方法,而且很很很便宜
: 发信站: 水木社区 (Thu Sep 23 21:09:47 2010), 站内
d*e
18 楼
我有个印度同事告诉我说她侄儿本来在美国这过敏那过敏的,结果送回印度去住了半年
回来后,再也不过敏了。看来以毒攻毒还是很有道理的。
回来后,再也不过敏了。看来以毒攻毒还是很有道理的。
p*e
24 楼
走极端,哪边都不合适。
要不试试在高压线底下买个房,天天睡地下室不开窗通风,用大理石在地下室铺床铺地
,隔热层全用石棉省电费气费,刷含铅漆,每天一瓶二锅头三包烟,微波炉放床头方便
宵夜,自己炸鸡炸鱼炸土豆吃,炸过的油用来炒菜,随便吃抗生素玩儿,趁现在国内管
得不严赶紧再买点三聚奶粉囤着冲咖啡喝。。。这样纯爷们儿的生活方式,有谁现身说
法一哈?
要不试试在高压线底下买个房,天天睡地下室不开窗通风,用大理石在地下室铺床铺地
,隔热层全用石棉省电费气费,刷含铅漆,每天一瓶二锅头三包烟,微波炉放床头方便
宵夜,自己炸鸡炸鱼炸土豆吃,炸过的油用来炒菜,随便吃抗生素玩儿,趁现在国内管
得不严赶紧再买点三聚奶粉囤着冲咖啡喝。。。这样纯爷们儿的生活方式,有谁现身说
法一哈?
d*2
25 楼
说起来呐, 现在NYC大搞餐馆卫生调查评级。
就我看到的, 肯德基麦当劳全都是A, 好点的有特色的馆子譬如todai这样的, 都是
pending检查整顿。
所以快餐店最健康卫生呐。
估计检查的都是老黑, 一看炸鸡就亲切, 一看鱼生就恶心。
【在 p*****e 的大作中提到】
: 走极端,哪边都不合适。
: 要不试试在高压线底下买个房,天天睡地下室不开窗通风,用大理石在地下室铺床铺地
: ,隔热层全用石棉省电费气费,刷含铅漆,每天一瓶二锅头三包烟,微波炉放床头方便
: 宵夜,自己炸鸡炸鱼炸土豆吃,炸过的油用来炒菜,随便吃抗生素玩儿,趁现在国内管
: 得不严赶紧再买点三聚奶粉囤着冲咖啡喝。。。这样纯爷们儿的生活方式,有谁现身说
: 法一哈?
就我看到的, 肯德基麦当劳全都是A, 好点的有特色的馆子譬如todai这样的, 都是
pending检查整顿。
所以快餐店最健康卫生呐。
估计检查的都是老黑, 一看炸鸡就亲切, 一看鱼生就恶心。
【在 p*****e 的大作中提到】
: 走极端,哪边都不合适。
: 要不试试在高压线底下买个房,天天睡地下室不开窗通风,用大理石在地下室铺床铺地
: ,隔热层全用石棉省电费气费,刷含铅漆,每天一瓶二锅头三包烟,微波炉放床头方便
: 宵夜,自己炸鸡炸鱼炸土豆吃,炸过的油用来炒菜,随便吃抗生素玩儿,趁现在国内管
: 得不严赶紧再买点三聚奶粉囤着冲咖啡喝。。。这样纯爷们儿的生活方式,有谁现身说
: 法一哈?
j*b
30 楼
Are you saying that you guys sniff at any so called health hazard? At least
the logic you use, (I mean if there's any,) suggests so.
the logic you use, (I mean if there's any,) suggests so.
j*b
32 楼
If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 不好啊,纯石头会产生氡气
It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 不好啊,纯石头会产生氡气
f*i
33 楼
版上这些评论的人就被你华丽地忽略了
普通人评论一下吧,就说他们不够专业。专业的人评论一下吧,就说他们biased。
's
regulation
found
most
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
: It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
: So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
: Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
普通人评论一下吧,就说他们不够专业。专业的人评论一下吧,就说他们biased。
's
regulation
found
most
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
: It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
: So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
: Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
p*e
34 楼
很多所谓需要government regulation的东西,其实本来就有是法律管的。
's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually
the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being
brainwashed.
found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the
most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
: It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
: So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
: Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually
the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being
brainwashed.
found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the
most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
: It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
: So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
: Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
z*n
35 楼
dude,这不是废话吗
利益收到损害的肯定是反对最强烈的,这有啥疑问吗
咱这说的不是这些corporation的宣传,什么吸烟无害论之类的
说的是过分paronoid的同学们,用的是common sense好不好
's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually
the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being
brainwashed.
found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the
most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
: It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
: So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
: Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
利益收到损害的肯定是反对最强烈的,这有啥疑问吗
咱这说的不是这些corporation的宣传,什么吸烟无害论之类的
说的是过分paronoid的同学们,用的是common sense好不好
's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually
the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being
brainwashed.
found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the
most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: If you take note of who criticize asbestos regulation, you'll find that it's mainly asbestos industry and conservatives.
: It's easier to understand that asbestos industry opposes asbestos regulation. It may not be so about the motive of the conservatives. Actually the conservatives are mostly against government regulation.
: So, it's also a political issue. And for the so called "Experts" here, just be sure that you really know about the issue, not simply being brainwashed.
: Similarly for Radon. I've researched on this back a couple of years. I found that clearly people in the granite counter-top industry are among the most vocal ones against "Radon risk".
j*b
36 楼
Do you mean the asbestos industry isn't biased on this issue?
I did nothing more than point out who are those pushing the "science"
against asbestos regulation. Just to remind people it's not like that it's
established scientific fact that asbestos is not risky. It's just according
to certain scientist who happens to be in the asbestos industry, or speaks
person of conservatives.
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: 版上这些评论的人就被你华丽地忽略了
: 普通人评论一下吧,就说他们不够专业。专业的人评论一下吧,就说他们biased。
:
: 's
: regulation
: found
: most
I did nothing more than point out who are those pushing the "science"
against asbestos regulation. Just to remind people it's not like that it's
established scientific fact that asbestos is not risky. It's just according
to certain scientist who happens to be in the asbestos industry, or speaks
person of conservatives.
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: 版上这些评论的人就被你华丽地忽略了
: 普通人评论一下吧,就说他们不够专业。专业的人评论一下吧,就说他们biased。
:
: 's
: regulation
: found
: most
j*b
37 楼
And as about the so called expert on this board. Where do you think their opinion comes from? I can think of a couple of sources, anecdotal evidence from people working in construction industry, or some of the "science" from the people I mentioned in my previous post. I consider non of these to be really accurate.
f*i
38 楼
老中contractor常常拆不按法规拆石棉天花板
为啥没怎么听说有人得了间皮瘤?
according
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Do you mean the asbestos industry isn't biased on this issue?
: I did nothing more than point out who are those pushing the "science"
: against asbestos regulation. Just to remind people it's not like that it's
: established scientific fact that asbestos is not risky. It's just according
: to certain scientist who happens to be in the asbestos industry, or speaks
: person of conservatives.
为啥没怎么听说有人得了间皮瘤?
according
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Do you mean the asbestos industry isn't biased on this issue?
: I did nothing more than point out who are those pushing the "science"
: against asbestos regulation. Just to remind people it's not like that it's
: established scientific fact that asbestos is not risky. It's just according
: to certain scientist who happens to be in the asbestos industry, or speaks
: person of conservatives.
z*n
40 楼
你说的也没错
我的解读是,大家嘲笑的是那种过分神经的同学,这个地球本身就是危险的,活到那个
份上,实在是不爽啊 :D
according
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Do you mean the asbestos industry isn't biased on this issue?
: I did nothing more than point out who are those pushing the "science"
: against asbestos regulation. Just to remind people it's not like that it's
: established scientific fact that asbestos is not risky. It's just according
: to certain scientist who happens to be in the asbestos industry, or speaks
: person of conservatives.
我的解读是,大家嘲笑的是那种过分神经的同学,这个地球本身就是危险的,活到那个
份上,实在是不爽啊 :D
according
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Do you mean the asbestos industry isn't biased on this issue?
: I did nothing more than point out who are those pushing the "science"
: against asbestos regulation. Just to remind people it's not like that it's
: established scientific fact that asbestos is not risky. It's just according
: to certain scientist who happens to be in the asbestos industry, or speaks
: person of conservatives.
j*b
42 楼
I agree there are 过分神经的同学, like totally.
But are we talking about the specific issue of 石棉 or not? Are we capable of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
If we are, then for your information, I simply want to point out there are interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric". I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just be influenced by such paid speakers.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你说的也没错
: 我的解读是,大家嘲笑的是那种过分神经的同学,这个地球本身就是危险的,活到那个
: 份上,实在是不爽啊 :D
:
: according
But are we talking about the specific issue of 石棉 or not? Are we capable of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
If we are, then for your information, I simply want to point out there are interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric". I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just be influenced by such paid speakers.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你说的也没错
: 我的解读是,大家嘲笑的是那种过分神经的同学,这个地球本身就是危险的,活到那个
: 份上,实在是不爽啊 :D
:
: according
f*i
43 楼
俺来抬个杠,看看这个例子:
一个医院共收治22个间皮瘤,患者都没有明显的石棉接触史。
反过来思考,如果接触石棉非常容易得间皮瘤,居然没有一个患者跑到这个医院看病?
一个医院共收治22个间皮瘤,患者都没有明显的石棉接触史。
反过来思考,如果接触石棉非常容易得间皮瘤,居然没有一个患者跑到这个医院看病?
j*b
44 楼
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/27/asbestos-press-watchdog-pcc
"What many reading the Daily Mail article won't have known is that the author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
written at least 42 newspaper articles on this subject since 2002, making claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
This is an example of paid mouth.
I've read the stuff written by Booker. It didn't really sound like science. There were no real statistical study or data.
"What many reading the Daily Mail article won't have known is that the author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
written at least 42 newspaper articles on this subject since 2002, making claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
This is an example of paid mouth.
I've read the stuff written by Booker. It didn't really sound like science. There were no real statistical study or data.
z*n
45 楼
石棉是个honey pot,律师们的最爱
有人要得了间皮瘤,律师们爱死了,原因是啥?石棉界经济力量不够强大
要有人吸烟得了肺癌,你试试告告烟草工业,能赢就有鬼了
这些都是谁有钱谁牛x
普通人,尊重科学尊重commen sense就好了
of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric".
I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just
be influenced by such pai
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I agree there are 过分神经的同学, like totally.
: But are we talking about the specific issue of 石棉 or not? Are we capable of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
: If we are, then for your information, I simply want to point out there are interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric". I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just be influenced by such paid speakers.
有人要得了间皮瘤,律师们爱死了,原因是啥?石棉界经济力量不够强大
要有人吸烟得了肺癌,你试试告告烟草工业,能赢就有鬼了
这些都是谁有钱谁牛x
普通人,尊重科学尊重commen sense就好了
of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric".
I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just
be influenced by such pai
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I agree there are 过分神经的同学, like totally.
: But are we talking about the specific issue of 石棉 or not? Are we capable of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
: If we are, then for your information, I simply want to point out there are interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric". I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just be influenced by such paid speakers.
z*n
46 楼
相反,up play石棉经济利益一样不小,这个是律师界支持的
author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the
health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably
similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
. There were no real statistical study or data.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/27/asbestos-press-watchdog-pcc
: "What many reading the Daily Mail article won't have known is that the author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
: written at least 42 newspaper articles on this subject since 2002, making claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
: This is an example of paid mouth.
: I've read the stuff written by Booker. It didn't really sound like science. There were no real statistical study or data.
author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the
health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably
similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
. There were no real statistical study or data.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/27/asbestos-press-watchdog-pcc
: "What many reading the Daily Mail article won't have known is that the author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
: written at least 42 newspaper articles on this subject since 2002, making claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
: This is an example of paid mouth.
: I've read the stuff written by Booker. It didn't really sound like science. There were no real statistical study or data.
f*i
47 楼
而且容易告,因为“石棉接触是导致间皮瘤的充要条件”,只要找到石棉接触的证据,
立马连上提款机。
".
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 石棉是个honey pot,律师们的最爱
: 有人要得了间皮瘤,律师们爱死了,原因是啥?石棉界经济力量不够强大
: 要有人吸烟得了肺癌,你试试告告烟草工业,能赢就有鬼了
: 这些都是谁有钱谁牛x
: 普通人,尊重科学尊重commen sense就好了
:
: of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
: interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric".
: I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just
: be influenced by such pai
立马连上提款机。
".
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 石棉是个honey pot,律师们的最爱
: 有人要得了间皮瘤,律师们爱死了,原因是啥?石棉界经济力量不够强大
: 要有人吸烟得了肺癌,你试试告告烟草工业,能赢就有鬼了
: 这些都是谁有钱谁牛x
: 普通人,尊重科学尊重commen sense就好了
:
: of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
: interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric".
: I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just
: be influenced by such pai
j*b
48 楼
Sure if you think so.
Button line is that don't sound like it's established "science" that 石棉 is
not risky, and scoff at people who consider such risk.
For house buyers, avoiding a house with 石棉, or at least with disturbed 石
棉 is manageable and no big money needs to be paid to 律师. So, please spare
them of biased views from interest groups.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 相反,up play石棉经济利益一样不小,这个是律师界支持的
:
: author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the
: health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
: claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably
: similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
: . There were no real statistical study or data.
Button line is that don't sound like it's established "science" that 石棉 is
not risky, and scoff at people who consider such risk.
For house buyers, avoiding a house with 石棉, or at least with disturbed 石
棉 is manageable and no big money needs to be paid to 律师. So, please spare
them of biased views from interest groups.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 相反,up play石棉经济利益一样不小,这个是律师界支持的
:
: author, Christopher Booker, has a long track record of downplaying the
: health risks of white asbestos. Though not a scientist himself, Booker as
: claims that run counter to the views of most experts, but are remarkably
: similar to those of the asbestos industry. "
: . There were no real statistical study or data.
z*n
50 楼
你倒是说说版上有几个是interest group的,lol
网友灌水讨论被你说成是interest group 牛
is
spare
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Sure if you think so.
: Button line is that don't sound like it's established "science" that 石棉 is
: not risky, and scoff at people who consider such risk.
: For house buyers, avoiding a house with 石棉, or at least with disturbed 石
: 棉 is manageable and no big money needs to be paid to 律师. So, please spare
: them of biased views from interest groups.
网友灌水讨论被你说成是interest group 牛
is
spare
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Sure if you think so.
: Button line is that don't sound like it's established "science" that 石棉 is
: not risky, and scoff at people who consider such risk.
: For house buyers, avoiding a house with 石棉, or at least with disturbed 石
: 棉 is manageable and no big money needs to be paid to 律师. So, please spare
: them of biased views from interest groups.
z*n
54 楼
j*b
55 楼
Let me tell you what "science" the argument against 石棉 regulation uses.
They say what's the level of 石棉 in the air in buildings what use 石棉. It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's safer than driving.
To me this isn't science. It's just argument.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你给提供一下数据吧,究竟石棉的危险程度和其他可对比的比如吸烟比如开车被撞死等
: 的比率相比是高还是低
: 我是坚决相信石棉的危险性的,究竟多高,是属于不可接受的范围还是正常人类生活不
: 可避免的概率范围内,你给一些数据对比对比
:
: It'
They say what's the level of 石棉 in the air in buildings what use 石棉. It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's safer than driving.
To me this isn't science. It's just argument.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你给提供一下数据吧,究竟石棉的危险程度和其他可对比的比如吸烟比如开车被撞死等
: 的比率相比是高还是低
: 我是坚决相信石棉的危险性的,究竟多高,是属于不可接受的范围还是正常人类生活不
: 可避免的概率范围内,你给一些数据对比对比
:
: It'
z*n
57 楼
well, if it is 1/1000, it's pretty dangerous IMO
do you have your science source indicating the actual stats?
It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's
safer than driving.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Let me tell you what "science" the argument against 石棉 regulation uses.
: They say what's the level of 石棉 in the air in buildings what use 石棉. It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's safer than driving.
: To me this isn't science. It's just argument.
do you have your science source indicating the actual stats?
It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's
safer than driving.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Let me tell you what "science" the argument against 石棉 regulation uses.
: They say what's the level of 石棉 in the air in buildings what use 石棉. It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's safer than driving.
: To me this isn't science. It's just argument.
j*b
58 楼
No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: well, if it is 1/1000, it's pretty dangerous IMO
: do you have your science source indicating the actual stats?
:
: It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's
: safer than driving.
The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: well, if it is 1/1000, it's pretty dangerous IMO
: do you have your science source indicating the actual stats?
:
: It's low. Based on this, they say the risk is 1/1000..., so, you see, it's
: safer than driving.
f*i
59 楼
到底是1/1000,还是1/1000...?
找不到A和B有关的例子和研究不就是“A和B无关”的证据吗?
find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
data, right?
reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince
them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
: The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
: Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
找不到A和B有关的例子和研究不就是“A和B无关”的证据吗?
find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
data, right?
reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince
them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
: The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
: Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
z*n
60 楼
同样的argument可以用于什么孕妇穿太空服,害怕无限router伤害大脑啥的
find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with
reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
showing that people living in such
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
: The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
: Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with
reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
showing that people living in such
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
: The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
: Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
j*b
61 楼
Faint. There are many, many people suffer from disease caused by 石棉. It's
perfectly reasonable to assume this stuff is dangerous. It's more than
evident that it's dangerous to people in certain trades. Even the interest
groups are only saying that they are safe to residents.
How can you compare this to wireless router and stuff?
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 同样的argument可以用于什么孕妇穿太空服,害怕无限router伤害大脑啥的
:
: find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
: difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
: residents are safe in building with
: reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
: attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
: showing that people living in such
perfectly reasonable to assume this stuff is dangerous. It's more than
evident that it's dangerous to people in certain trades. Even the interest
groups are only saying that they are safe to residents.
How can you compare this to wireless router and stuff?
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 同样的argument可以用于什么孕妇穿太空服,害怕无限router伤害大脑啥的
:
: find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
: difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
: residents are safe in building with
: reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
: attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
: showing that people living in such
z*n
62 楼
我没说二者等同,我是说你的argument同样适用,呵呵
s
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Faint. There are many, many people suffer from disease caused by 石棉. It's
: perfectly reasonable to assume this stuff is dangerous. It's more than
: evident that it's dangerous to people in certain trades. Even the interest
: groups are only saying that they are safe to residents.
: How can you compare this to wireless router and stuff?
s
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Faint. There are many, many people suffer from disease caused by 石棉. It's
: perfectly reasonable to assume this stuff is dangerous. It's more than
: evident that it's dangerous to people in certain trades. Even the interest
: groups are only saying that they are safe to residents.
: How can you compare this to wireless router and stuff?
f*i
63 楼
他说的是你讨论的方法和逻辑,可以适用router对大脑有害论。
quote:“At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
data, right?”
造句:“At least, if you want to say that residents are safe using router without causing any brain damage, it's you who need to provide such data, right”
s
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Faint. There are many, many people suffer from disease caused by 石棉. It's
: perfectly reasonable to assume this stuff is dangerous. It's more than
: evident that it's dangerous to people in certain trades. Even the interest
: groups are only saying that they are safe to residents.
: How can you compare this to wireless router and stuff?
quote:“At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
data, right?”
造句:“At least, if you want to say that residents are safe using router without causing any brain damage, it's you who need to provide such data, right”
s
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Faint. There are many, many people suffer from disease caused by 石棉. It's
: perfectly reasonable to assume this stuff is dangerous. It's more than
: evident that it's dangerous to people in certain trades. Even the interest
: groups are only saying that they are safe to residents.
: How can you compare this to wireless router and stuff?
j*b
64 楼
My logic relies on first reasonable evidence of danger be established, so
that the default position becomes "this stuff seems dangerous". After that
the burden of proof goes to people who argue "Well, this stuff may seem
dangerous, but in fact it's safe and tasty." This is not the case with
wireless router. Did you see the distinction?
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: 他说的是你讨论的方法和逻辑,可以适用router对大脑有害论。
: quote:“At least, if you want to say that
: residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
: data, right?”
: 造句:“At least, if you want to say that residents are safe using router without causing any brain damage, it's you who need to provide such data, right”
:
: s
that the default position becomes "this stuff seems dangerous". After that
the burden of proof goes to people who argue "Well, this stuff may seem
dangerous, but in fact it's safe and tasty." This is not the case with
wireless router. Did you see the distinction?
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: 他说的是你讨论的方法和逻辑,可以适用router对大脑有害论。
: quote:“At least, if you want to say that
: residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
: data, right?”
: 造句:“At least, if you want to say that residents are safe using router without causing any brain damage, it's you who need to provide such data, right”
:
: s
f*i
65 楼
OK
我说你家的水是有毒的,喝了三十年以后会肚子疼的。
你提个证据推翻我吧。
你要是提不出科学的证据的话,我的话就成立了,你就不能用逻辑和common sense挑战这个论点。
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: My logic relies on first reasonable evidence of danger be established, so
: that the default position becomes "this stuff seems dangerous". After that
: the burden of proof goes to people who argue "Well, this stuff may seem
: dangerous, but in fact it's safe and tasty." This is not the case with
: wireless router. Did you see the distinction?
我说你家的水是有毒的,喝了三十年以后会肚子疼的。
你提个证据推翻我吧。
你要是提不出科学的证据的话,我的话就成立了,你就不能用逻辑和common sense挑战这个论点。
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: My logic relies on first reasonable evidence of danger be established, so
: that the default position becomes "this stuff seems dangerous". After that
: the burden of proof goes to people who argue "Well, this stuff may seem
: dangerous, but in fact it's safe and tasty." This is not the case with
: wireless router. Did you see the distinction?
j*b
66 楼
Ok, so now I see where you are going. You are arguing against the danger of
石棉 altogether.
At least according to wiki it seems to be pretty established that 石棉 is
dangerous. I would need to spend time to do some research before discussing
this, but I think I'd pass.
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: OK
: 我说你家的水是有毒的,喝了三十年以后会肚子疼的。
: 你提个证据推翻我吧。
: 你要是提不出科学的证据的话,我的话就成立了,你就不能用逻辑和common sense挑战这个论点。
石棉 altogether.
At least according to wiki it seems to be pretty established that 石棉 is
dangerous. I would need to spend time to do some research before discussing
this, but I think I'd pass.
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: OK
: 我说你家的水是有毒的,喝了三十年以后会肚子疼的。
: 你提个证据推翻我吧。
: 你要是提不出科学的证据的话,我的话就成立了,你就不能用逻辑和common sense挑战这个论点。
z*n
67 楼
我基本同意石棉危险的论调
坚持认为对于不是每天跟石棉打交道的人群,对于resident,其危险性远远小于大家日
常接触的其他危险事物,输于生活的一部分,故不担心
of
discussing
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Ok, so now I see where you are going. You are arguing against the danger of
: 石棉 altogether.
: At least according to wiki it seems to be pretty established that 石棉 is
: dangerous. I would need to spend time to do some research before discussing
: this, but I think I'd pass.
坚持认为对于不是每天跟石棉打交道的人群,对于resident,其危险性远远小于大家日
常接触的其他危险事物,输于生活的一部分,故不担心
of
discussing
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Ok, so now I see where you are going. You are arguing against the danger of
: 石棉 altogether.
: At least according to wiki it seems to be pretty established that 石棉 is
: dangerous. I would need to spend time to do some research before discussing
: this, but I think I'd pass.
f*i
68 楼
我只是引用了一下你的逻辑和立论方法,然后举了个例子。这个例子跟石棉无关。
of
discussing
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Ok, so now I see where you are going. You are arguing against the danger of
: 石棉 altogether.
: At least according to wiki it seems to be pretty established that 石棉 is
: dangerous. I would need to spend time to do some research before discussing
: this, but I think I'd pass.
of
discussing
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Ok, so now I see where you are going. You are arguing against the danger of
: 石棉 altogether.
: At least according to wiki it seems to be pretty established that 石棉 is
: dangerous. I would need to spend time to do some research before discussing
: this, but I think I'd pass.
j*b
69 楼
I totally respect your position. Myself don't pay much attention to other
health hazard. But as about stuff that goes into lungs, I'd like be more
careful. As I said, I'm feeling some discomfort after working in the attic
with mask. I'll definitely wear better mask next time. Mean while, I'm a
little worried about my family since I may have been bringing fiber glass
into my house.
So you see, this is when I don't have 石棉. Figure what if I have. All the
arguments 石棉 regulation assume that people simply leaving 石棉 alone. I
might not stay clear of it if I'm in a house with 石棉.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 我基本同意石棉危险的论调
: 坚持认为对于不是每天跟石棉打交道的人群,对于resident,其危险性远远小于大家日
: 常接触的其他危险事物,输于生活的一部分,故不担心
:
: of
: discussing
health hazard. But as about stuff that goes into lungs, I'd like be more
careful. As I said, I'm feeling some discomfort after working in the attic
with mask. I'll definitely wear better mask next time. Mean while, I'm a
little worried about my family since I may have been bringing fiber glass
into my house.
So you see, this is when I don't have 石棉. Figure what if I have. All the
arguments 石棉 regulation assume that people simply leaving 石棉 alone. I
might not stay clear of it if I'm in a house with 石棉.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 我基本同意石棉危险的论调
: 坚持认为对于不是每天跟石棉打交道的人群,对于resident,其危险性远远小于大家日
: 常接触的其他危险事物,输于生活的一部分,故不担心
:
: of
: discussing
d*e
71 楼
我觉得吧,讨论什么东西有害,怎么生活健康都是好事情。但是常在这个版上看见有些
言论让人有些觉得太缺乏基本科学认识,比如
“阁楼上吸到了石棉,马上呼吸不适了”
“头晕眼花,因为是闻了新橱柜的味道,某某人就是因为装修污染不到一年就癌症死了”
“因为不吃organic, 所以长了癌症”
“某某住高压线下面,所以一家都生病了”
科学上要证明两件事情的关联,是需要大量证据的,某些东西就算是有害,但是还没有
哪个专家敢说得跟这个版上的健康生活大师那么无比肯定。
言论让人有些觉得太缺乏基本科学认识,比如
“阁楼上吸到了石棉,马上呼吸不适了”
“头晕眼花,因为是闻了新橱柜的味道,某某人就是因为装修污染不到一年就癌症死了”
“因为不吃organic, 所以长了癌症”
“某某住高压线下面,所以一家都生病了”
科学上要证明两件事情的关联,是需要大量证据的,某些东西就算是有害,但是还没有
哪个专家敢说得跟这个版上的健康生活大师那么无比肯定。
f*i
73 楼
我也来举个例子好了
以前在学校的时候,实验室有个测天线的chamber,每次进去测个东西,马上头晕。当
时觉得肯定是被电磁波辐射了,所以导致头晕。
工作以后整天接触这破电磁波,强度高了十几倍,根本没头晕过,倒是盯显示屏久了会
有点晕。
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I totally respect your position. Myself don't pay much attention to other
: health hazard. But as about stuff that goes into lungs, I'd like be more
: careful. As I said, I'm feeling some discomfort after working in the attic
: with mask. I'll definitely wear better mask next time. Mean while, I'm a
: little worried about my family since I may have been bringing fiber glass
: into my house.
: So you see, this is when I don't have 石棉. Figure what if I have. All the
: arguments 石棉 regulation assume that people simply leaving 石棉 alone. I
: might not stay clear of it if I'm in a house with 石棉.
以前在学校的时候,实验室有个测天线的chamber,每次进去测个东西,马上头晕。当
时觉得肯定是被电磁波辐射了,所以导致头晕。
工作以后整天接触这破电磁波,强度高了十几倍,根本没头晕过,倒是盯显示屏久了会
有点晕。
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I totally respect your position. Myself don't pay much attention to other
: health hazard. But as about stuff that goes into lungs, I'd like be more
: careful. As I said, I'm feeling some discomfort after working in the attic
: with mask. I'll definitely wear better mask next time. Mean while, I'm a
: little worried about my family since I may have been bringing fiber glass
: into my house.
: So you see, this is when I don't have 石棉. Figure what if I have. All the
: arguments 石棉 regulation assume that people simply leaving 石棉 alone. I
: might not stay clear of it if I'm in a house with 石棉.
j*b
74 楼
Your argument is totally idiotic.
I feel discomfort after inhaling fiber glass (I never said 石棉) is a simple
fact. I need no 基本科学认识 to know this. And there is no 基本科学认识
that goes against this.
了”
【在 d***e 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得吧,讨论什么东西有害,怎么生活健康都是好事情。但是常在这个版上看见有些
: 言论让人有些觉得太缺乏基本科学认识,比如
: “阁楼上吸到了石棉,马上呼吸不适了”
: “头晕眼花,因为是闻了新橱柜的味道,某某人就是因为装修污染不到一年就癌症死了”
: “因为不吃organic, 所以长了癌症”
: “某某住高压线下面,所以一家都生病了”
: 科学上要证明两件事情的关联,是需要大量证据的,某些东西就算是有害,但是还没有
: 哪个专家敢说得跟这个版上的健康生活大师那么无比肯定。
I feel discomfort after inhaling fiber glass (I never said 石棉) is a simple
fact. I need no 基本科学认识 to know this. And there is no 基本科学认识
that goes against this.
了”
【在 d***e 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得吧,讨论什么东西有害,怎么生活健康都是好事情。但是常在这个版上看见有些
: 言论让人有些觉得太缺乏基本科学认识,比如
: “阁楼上吸到了石棉,马上呼吸不适了”
: “头晕眼花,因为是闻了新橱柜的味道,某某人就是因为装修污染不到一年就癌症死了”
: “因为不吃organic, 所以长了癌症”
: “某某住高压线下面,所以一家都生病了”
: 科学上要证明两件事情的关联,是需要大量证据的,某些东西就算是有害,但是还没有
: 哪个专家敢说得跟这个版上的健康生活大师那么无比肯定。
j*b
75 楼
Before I hear more idiotic comments about my "feeling discomfort from
inhaling fiber glass", let's just read this.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/124778-fiberglass-breathing-danger-effects/
Respiratory Distress
Inhaling the material could cause irritation of the mouth, nasal passage and
throat. The Illinois Department of Health's fact sheet reports the
fiberglass strands or dust can be easily inhaled. Mucous membranes in air
passages are particularly sensitive to foreign particles. The inhaled
particles can irritate these membranes, and, according to the Net Wellness
Consumer Health Information network, might cause "bronchitis-like symptoms"
or discolore
inhaling fiber glass", let's just read this.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/124778-fiberglass-breathing-danger-effects/
Respiratory Distress
Inhaling the material could cause irritation of the mouth, nasal passage and
throat. The Illinois Department of Health's fact sheet reports the
fiberglass strands or dust can be easily inhaled. Mucous membranes in air
passages are particularly sensitive to foreign particles. The inhaled
particles can irritate these membranes, and, according to the Net Wellness
Consumer Health Information network, might cause "bronchitis-like symptoms"
or discolore
d*e
76 楼
问题是你呼吸不适这个原因到底是因为fiber glass还是因为其他原因呢?引起呼吸不
适的原因可以非常多,可以是fiber glass,也可能是粉尘,也可能是冷空气,或者空
气太干燥,你怎么就那么肯定是fiber glass呢?最基本的科学认知就是没有充分调查
研究前不要下那么肯定的结论。
simple
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Your argument is totally idiotic.
: I feel discomfort after inhaling fiber glass (I never said 石棉) is a simple
: fact. I need no 基本科学认识 to know this. And there is no 基本科学认识
: that goes against this.
:
: 了”
适的原因可以非常多,可以是fiber glass,也可能是粉尘,也可能是冷空气,或者空
气太干燥,你怎么就那么肯定是fiber glass呢?最基本的科学认知就是没有充分调查
研究前不要下那么肯定的结论。
simple
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Your argument is totally idiotic.
: I feel discomfort after inhaling fiber glass (I never said 石棉) is a simple
: fact. I need no 基本科学认识 to know this. And there is no 基本科学认识
: that goes against this.
:
: 了”
z*n
77 楼
买个好点的face mask吧
不过这个话题和石棉无关貌似
and
"
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Before I hear more idiotic comments about my "feeling discomfort from
: inhaling fiber glass", let's just read this.
: http://www.livestrong.com/article/124778-fiberglass-breathing-danger-effects/
: Respiratory Distress
: Inhaling the material could cause irritation of the mouth, nasal passage and
: throat. The Illinois Department of Health's fact sheet reports the
: fiberglass strands or dust can be easily inhaled. Mucous membranes in air
: passages are particularly sensitive to foreign particles. The inhaled
: particles can irritate these membranes, and, according to the Net Wellness
: Consumer Health Information network, might cause "bronchitis-like symptoms"
不过这个话题和石棉无关貌似
and
"
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: Before I hear more idiotic comments about my "feeling discomfort from
: inhaling fiber glass", let's just read this.
: http://www.livestrong.com/article/124778-fiberglass-breathing-danger-effects/
: Respiratory Distress
: Inhaling the material could cause irritation of the mouth, nasal passage and
: throat. The Illinois Department of Health's fact sheet reports the
: fiberglass strands or dust can be easily inhaled. Mucous membranes in air
: passages are particularly sensitive to foreign particles. The inhaled
: particles can irritate these membranes, and, according to the Net Wellness
: Consumer Health Information network, might cause "bronchitis-like symptoms"
b*i
84 楼
To be fair, she said she inhale fiberglass and felt itchy throat. I did felt
itchy right after working with some fiberglass for insulation. So I think
that's not exaggeration.
【在 d***e 的大作中提到】
: 问题是你呼吸不适这个原因到底是因为fiber glass还是因为其他原因呢?引起呼吸不
: 适的原因可以非常多,可以是fiber glass,也可能是粉尘,也可能是冷空气,或者空
: 气太干燥,你怎么就那么肯定是fiber glass呢?最基本的科学认知就是没有充分调查
: 研究前不要下那么肯定的结论。
:
: simple
itchy right after working with some fiberglass for insulation. So I think
that's not exaggeration.
【在 d***e 的大作中提到】
: 问题是你呼吸不适这个原因到底是因为fiber glass还是因为其他原因呢?引起呼吸不
: 适的原因可以非常多,可以是fiber glass,也可能是粉尘,也可能是冷空气,或者空
: 气太干燥,你怎么就那么肯定是fiber glass呢?最基本的科学认知就是没有充分调查
: 研究前不要下那么肯定的结论。
:
: simple
j*b
85 楼
I recall yesterday when I first mention my problem with fiber glass, someone said it may be mold.
Now it seems to me that some people are seriously in doubt of materials like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much established COMMON SENSE.
Let's have common sense.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 买个好点的face mask吧
: 不过这个话题和石棉无关貌似
:
: and
: "
Now it seems to me that some people are seriously in doubt of materials like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much established COMMON SENSE.
Let's have common sense.
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 买个好点的face mask吧
: 不过这个话题和石棉无关貌似
:
: and
: "
z*n
86 楼
同意,所以要尽量少吸入粉尘
这个是有没有石棉的房子都有的问题
someone
like
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I recall yesterday when I first mention my problem with fiber glass, someone said it may be mold.
: Now it seems to me that some people are seriously in doubt of materials like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much established COMMON SENSE.
: Let's have common sense.
这个是有没有石棉的房子都有的问题
someone
like
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I recall yesterday when I first mention my problem with fiber glass, someone said it may be mold.
: Now it seems to me that some people are seriously in doubt of materials like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much established COMMON SENSE.
: Let's have common sense.
f*i
87 楼
有异物纤维进入肺部总不是好事
如果是人体能够分解的物质还好,稳定的物质才更麻烦
someone said it may be mold.
like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you
shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much
established COMMON SENSE.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I recall yesterday when I first mention my problem with fiber glass, someone said it may be mold.
: Now it seems to me that some people are seriously in doubt of materials like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much established COMMON SENSE.
: Let's have common sense.
如果是人体能够分解的物质还好,稳定的物质才更麻烦
someone said it may be mold.
like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you
shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much
established COMMON SENSE.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I recall yesterday when I first mention my problem with fiber glass, someone said it may be mold.
: Now it seems to me that some people are seriously in doubt of materials like fiber glass and 石棉 damaging the lungs. I just want to tell them "you shouldn't". Dusts, no matter what, damage the lung. It's pretty much established COMMON SENSE.
: Let's have common sense.
j*b
93 楼
Yes, I'm the 抬杠 one when people say inhaling fiberglass won't cause
irritation.
I knew fiber glass is tricky stuff since I was a child. I won't expected everyone to be exposed to it as child, but don't you even touch some insulation as home owners?
【在 b*a 的大作中提到】
: 你这个有些抬杠了。筒子们没说玻璃纤维无害。事实上,你初到任何一个有尘有烟,甚
: 至到厂房的车间里,都会有类似的感觉
:
: stuff
: think
irritation.
I knew fiber glass is tricky stuff since I was a child. I won't expected everyone to be exposed to it as child, but don't you even touch some insulation as home owners?
【在 b*a 的大作中提到】
: 你这个有些抬杠了。筒子们没说玻璃纤维无害。事实上,你初到任何一个有尘有烟,甚
: 至到厂房的车间里,都会有类似的感觉
:
: stuff
: think
j*b
99 楼
d*2
110 楼
好像上次有个告烟草的赢了,
你其实应该举手机的例子, 这个才是当今的老大。
".
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 石棉是个honey pot,律师们的最爱
: 有人要得了间皮瘤,律师们爱死了,原因是啥?石棉界经济力量不够强大
: 要有人吸烟得了肺癌,你试试告告烟草工业,能赢就有鬼了
: 这些都是谁有钱谁牛x
: 普通人,尊重科学尊重commen sense就好了
:
: of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
: interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric".
: I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just
: be influenced by such pai
你其实应该举手机的例子, 这个才是当今的老大。
".
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 石棉是个honey pot,律师们的最爱
: 有人要得了间皮瘤,律师们爱死了,原因是啥?石棉界经济力量不够强大
: 要有人吸烟得了肺癌,你试试告告烟草工业,能赢就有鬼了
: 这些都是谁有钱谁牛x
: 普通人,尊重科学尊重commen sense就好了
:
: of not making ridiculous over generalizations?
: interest groups who push the view that the caution over 石棉 is "hysteric".
: I'm afraid the "experts" here dishing out "professional advices" may just
: be influenced by such pai
d*e
111 楼
我就总觉得我这身体早在国内给各种有害有毒物质弄得全身毒了。偏偏又是化学实验室
工作的,工作这么多年下来,又攒了一身毒。大毒都累积了那么多了,还真不用在乎些
石棉啊,高压线什么的东西。吃再多的organic跟早年中的毒比起来也是九牛一毛啊。
偏偏现在身体还特别好,也不知道哪天会不会来个癌症。等我哪天得了癌症再来血泪控
诉石棉和高压线吧。
工作的,工作这么多年下来,又攒了一身毒。大毒都累积了那么多了,还真不用在乎些
石棉啊,高压线什么的东西。吃再多的organic跟早年中的毒比起来也是九牛一毛啊。
偏偏现在身体还特别好,也不知道哪天会不会来个癌症。等我哪天得了癌症再来血泪控
诉石棉和高压线吧。
d*2
112 楼
别臆测了, 80年代以前所有的房子都大量使用石棉。
美国有些地区90%的residence都是80年代以前的, 如果对residence有影响, 早就炒
作上天了。 实际上现在DOB对石棉也不是强制拆除, 你要拆去申报, 不拆没人理你。
中国则现在还在广泛使用石棉, 除了产业工人, 你去找个居民住宅因为石棉大面积致
病的例子去。
还一口一个sci, 一口一个数据呢。
find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
data, right?
reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince
them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
: The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
: Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
美国有些地区90%的residence都是80年代以前的, 如果对residence有影响, 早就炒
作上天了。 实际上现在DOB对石棉也不是强制拆除, 你要拆去申报, 不拆没人理你。
中国则现在还在广泛使用石棉, 除了产业工人, 你去找个居民住宅因为石棉大面积致
病的例子去。
还一口一个sci, 一口一个数据呢。
find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
data, right?
reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No
attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data
showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince
them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: No, it's not 1/1000, it 1/1000...
: The actual stats are usually from specific industry. I tried but didn't find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such data, right?
: Once again, forget about the law suits. We are talking about whether it's reasonable to avoid house with 石棉 or at least with disturbed 石棉. No attorneys are involved. Just tell me do you think we need to see data showing that people living in such houses are safe before trying to convince them? Isn't this how the whole 石棉 issue started here?
j*b
125 楼
It is true that most people living in building with Asbestos are safe. But that depend on them not working with Asbestos and leave it alone. If you DIY a lot, it can be an issue. Even though it may not kill you, but you certainly don't want to inhale it.
According to stats, clearly more people die of cancer caused by smoking then from Mesothelioma. But first, some people don't smoke, second, there are risks that's hard to avoid, then there are risks easier to avoid. That's why it may be a sensible choice if you don't buy a house with Asbestos when you have other options. It's not like you will feel like missing something without Asbestos in your house. (compared to, say swimming pool).
。
such
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 别臆测了, 80年代以前所有的房子都大量使用石棉。
: 美国有些地区90%的residence都是80年代以前的, 如果对residence有影响, 早就炒
: 作上天了。 实际上现在DOB对石棉也不是强制拆除, 你要拆去申报, 不拆没人理你。
: 中国则现在还在广泛使用石棉, 除了产业工人, 你去找个居民住宅因为石棉大面积致
: 病的例子去。
: 还一口一个sci, 一口一个数据呢。
:
: find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
: difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
: residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
According to stats, clearly more people die of cancer caused by smoking then from Mesothelioma. But first, some people don't smoke, second, there are risks that's hard to avoid, then there are risks easier to avoid. That's why it may be a sensible choice if you don't buy a house with Asbestos when you have other options. It's not like you will feel like missing something without Asbestos in your house. (compared to, say swimming pool).
。
such
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 别臆测了, 80年代以前所有的房子都大量使用石棉。
: 美国有些地区90%的residence都是80年代以前的, 如果对residence有影响, 早就炒
: 作上天了。 实际上现在DOB对石棉也不是强制拆除, 你要拆去申报, 不拆没人理你。
: 中国则现在还在广泛使用石棉, 除了产业工人, 你去找个居民住宅因为石棉大面积致
: 病的例子去。
: 还一口一个sci, 一口一个数据呢。
:
: find data as to how residents are affected. But I think it may be simply
: difficulty in collecting such data. At least, if you want to say that
: residents are safe in building with 石棉, it's you who need to provide such
d*2
128 楼
j*b
140 楼
If you understand that some risks are 无法避免, like car accident, you
should understand why when a certain risk is pretty easy to avoid, may be it
's not stupid to simply avoid it.
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 其实危害最大的还是最日常的, 因为无法避免, 所以大家都不提了。
: 譬如手机。
: 就小孩子来说, 危害最大的是以前的含铅汽油, 中国现在还在用。
: 稍微不注意就血铅超标, 原因就是吸/吃入太多的dust, 结果就要天天勤打扫卫生,
: 少上街, 还是难以完全避免。
: 要说致癌, 日常生活里的7零8碎, 什么都比不上汽车尾气。
should understand why when a certain risk is pretty easy to avoid, may be it
's not stupid to simply avoid it.
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 其实危害最大的还是最日常的, 因为无法避免, 所以大家都不提了。
: 譬如手机。
: 就小孩子来说, 危害最大的是以前的含铅汽油, 中国现在还在用。
: 稍微不注意就血铅超标, 原因就是吸/吃入太多的dust, 结果就要天天勤打扫卫生,
: 少上街, 还是难以完全避免。
: 要说致癌, 日常生活里的7零8碎, 什么都比不上汽车尾气。
f*i
177 楼
这是加州最近的调查结果
北加州低海拔地区的湖,有48%的湖里bass的汞含量超过0.44ppm,不适合食用。我家附
近的水库没有一个不超标的。鲤鱼的汞含量大概是bass的一半,鲤鱼也超。
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/lakes_study.shtml
南加好点,15%的湖里Bass的汞含量超标。
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 那次数据好像是西海岸特别严重
: 没有single out 加州
北加州低海拔地区的湖,有48%的湖里bass的汞含量超过0.44ppm,不适合食用。我家附
近的水库没有一个不超标的。鲤鱼的汞含量大概是bass的一半,鲤鱼也超。
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/lakes_study.shtml
南加好点,15%的湖里Bass的汞含量超标。
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 那次数据好像是西海岸特别严重
: 没有single out 加州
z*n
181 楼
我们太原有个“晋阳湖”,周围有化肥厂化工厂磷肥厂发电厂......
都直接排水到里边的
很多人在那钓鱼吃...
LA pier也很多人在垂钓,呵呵
也有人钓鱼都要海船出去1mile以上据说污染就小了
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: 这是加州最近的调查结果
: 北加州低海拔地区的湖,有48%的湖里bass的汞含量超过0.44ppm,不适合食用。我家附
: 近的水库没有一个不超标的。鲤鱼的汞含量大概是bass的一半,鲤鱼也超。
: http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/lakes_study.shtml
: 南加好点,15%的湖里Bass的汞含量超标。
都直接排水到里边的
很多人在那钓鱼吃...
LA pier也很多人在垂钓,呵呵
也有人钓鱼都要海船出去1mile以上据说污染就小了
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: 这是加州最近的调查结果
: 北加州低海拔地区的湖,有48%的湖里bass的汞含量超过0.44ppm,不适合食用。我家附
: 近的水库没有一个不超标的。鲤鱼的汞含量大概是bass的一半,鲤鱼也超。
: http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/lakes_study.shtml
: 南加好点,15%的湖里Bass的汞含量超标。
b*i
193 楼
I wouldn't call it astounding though. I did know fiber glass was irritating
in the five years I lived in my first house, which was a new construction. I
simply did not need to do any insulation. Now I have this 50 year old house
, I (am forced to) know a lot more about everything around the house. It
really depends on your situation.
stuff
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I'm astounded that people still need to feel fiber glass to know this stuff
: is irritating.
:
: felt
in the five years I lived in my first house, which was a new construction. I
simply did not need to do any insulation. Now I have this 50 year old house
, I (am forced to) know a lot more about everything around the house. It
really depends on your situation.
stuff
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
: I'm astounded that people still need to feel fiber glass to know this stuff
: is irritating.
:
: felt
a*e
197 楼
fiber glass在美国用的很多阿,尤其是做门。做的好的跟实木的差别也不大了。。。。
irritating
I
house
【在 b**i 的大作中提到】
: I wouldn't call it astounding though. I did know fiber glass was irritating
: in the five years I lived in my first house, which was a new construction. I
: simply did not need to do any insulation. Now I have this 50 year old house
: , I (am forced to) know a lot more about everything around the house. It
: really depends on your situation.
:
: stuff
irritating
I
house
【在 b**i 的大作中提到】
: I wouldn't call it astounding though. I did know fiber glass was irritating
: in the five years I lived in my first house, which was a new construction. I
: simply did not need to do any insulation. Now I have this 50 year old house
: , I (am forced to) know a lot more about everything around the house. It
: really depends on your situation.
:
: stuff
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