avatar
n*7
2
Hi Guys,
What is your opinion about co-first author, who did more for the paper? I
found the second one usually did much more, because if the first guy did
more, the second one should not have any chance to get the equal
contribution authorship. IS that true?
avatar
p*l
3
不一定吧,原因各种各样
有的时候确实第二位置的第一作者做的比第一位置的还多
老板为了平衡利益或者出于个人喜好
不过很多时候应该是第一位置的第一作者无可争议的对文章贡献最大吧

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Hi Guys,
: What is your opinion about co-first author, who did more for the paper? I
: found the second one usually did much more, because if the first guy did
: more, the second one should not have any chance to get the equal
: contribution authorship. IS that true?

avatar
m*7
4
很多排在第二的Co-first author只不过是研究项目起了个头,人走了之后接手的人辛
辛苦苦把项目完成了,写了paper,老板因为跟前人关系好,硬要加成co-first author
。一般first author琢磨着反正自己的名字排在第一位,也就懒得争辩从了。
照你这么说,排在第二的做的还多的,他凭什么不去争第一啊?
avatar
n*7
5
Why don't you think the boss is favor to the first guy and sacrifice the
second one's lots of primary hard work?
avatar
m*7
6
不排除有老板偏向排在第一的作者的情况。
但这种情况的发生,绝对是排在第一的那个人动手写了paper,或是老板亲自动手写
paper的状况下。这就是话语权在谁手里的结果。如果你只是做了实验,没有参与归纳
总结成文的过程,你只可能被当做hand而已。这样的话,老板自己的判断也无可厚非。
我至今从没见过做了大部分实验并且动手写了paper的人排在第二。
avatar
s*f
7
有两个实验室合作。
一个分子的实验室(A)做一个蛋白很多年了,做了很多这个蛋白的功能。A的老板是这
个领域的牛人。现在他们想解这个蛋白的结构,请另一个结构实验室(B)的合作,做
结晶。
A实验室的一个学生提纯蛋白,做功能。B的一个学生负责X-ray。
这篇paper应该怎么排作者?

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Hi Guys,
: What is your opinion about co-first author, who did more for the paper? I
: found the second one usually did much more, because if the first guy did
: more, the second one should not have any chance to get the equal
: contribution authorship. IS that true?

avatar
m*7
8
这个就是经典的,真正equal contribution的案例了,不光是first author, 也是
correspondence author。
这种情况下,就是比哪个老板牛了。

【在 s**f 的大作中提到】
: 有两个实验室合作。
: 一个分子的实验室(A)做一个蛋白很多年了,做了很多这个蛋白的功能。A的老板是这
: 个领域的牛人。现在他们想解这个蛋白的结构,请另一个结构实验室(B)的合作,做
: 结晶。
: A实验室的一个学生提纯蛋白,做功能。B的一个学生负责X-ray。
: 这篇paper应该怎么排作者?

avatar
n*7
9
Do you think the chinese boss want the postdoc or phd student to write the
paper for themselves when they work on the same project? What's more, the
boss already decided whose name first long time before published.THE boss
even do not let the second guy know more detail about the project,just asked
the second guy did more and more critical experiments.
avatar
m*7
10
怎么没有? 我见过好些中国老板让学生或博后自己写文章的。公平的是大多数。
你自己可能遇上个例,但不要就此以偏概全得出什么排在第二的co-first author贡献
更多的结论。

asked

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Do you think the chinese boss want the postdoc or phd student to write the
: paper for themselves when they work on the same project? What's more, the
: boss already decided whose name first long time before published.THE boss
: even do not let the second guy know more detail about the project,just asked
: the second guy did more and more critical experiments.

avatar
n*7
11
The most important issue is the first one even did not write one word for
the paper.
avatar
m*7
12
难道第二个人就写了吗?
说了那么多,你就没看明白吗?

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: The most important issue is the first one even did not write one word for
: the paper.

avatar
n*7
13
But second one did more critical experiments, do you understand?
avatar
I*y
14
you are the second guy in the co-author names?

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: But second one did more critical experiments, do you understand?
avatar
n*7
15
So sad! The boss cheat me!
avatar
w*r
16
no, the first usually should have done more. the purpose of co-first author
is to show that the second author contributed significantly instead of being
dajiangyou as those No.N author.

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Hi Guys,
: What is your opinion about co-first author, who did more for the paper? I
: found the second one usually did much more, because if the first guy did
: more, the second one should not have any chance to get the equal
: contribution authorship. IS that true?

avatar
b*d
17

I
No, it's not true. Other than the classical co-first case mentioned above
(protein function + X-ray structure), the truth for many co-first cases is
none of them made significant contributions to truly deserve solo first
author. In that case, it's irrelevant who contributed marginally more or
less and boss just makes a judgement call.

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Hi Guys,
: What is your opinion about co-first author, who did more for the paper? I
: found the second one usually did much more, because if the first guy did
: more, the second one should not have any chance to get the equal
: contribution authorship. IS that true?

avatar
u*g
18
这一行的龌龊真多
avatar
b*d
19

Co-first with a contributor from lab A physically first and co-
corresponding. Most likely lab A started the project, found the function
and mechanism and approached lab B for structure. Without lab A, the
paper wouldn't be existing at the very moment (lab B could do X-Ray later
after lab A publishes the result); without lab B, lab A could approach
somebody else and/or publish (possibly) a lesser paper.
The best option is to publish two papers back to back if they could pull
it off.

【在 s**f 的大作中提到】
: 有两个实验室合作。
: 一个分子的实验室(A)做一个蛋白很多年了,做了很多这个蛋白的功能。A的老板是这
: 个领域的牛人。现在他们想解这个蛋白的结构,请另一个结构实验室(B)的合作,做
: 结晶。
: A实验室的一个学生提纯蛋白,做功能。B的一个学生负责X-ray。
: 这篇paper应该怎么排作者?

avatar
o*r
20
我知道一些实验室在这种情况下是根据字母顺序,所以姓氏靠前也会沾光。
avatar
n*7
21
Has anyone even involved in this situation? you guys just say what should be
, not what really be.
avatar
s*f
22
所有的“biology”都来自A实验室。结果是解了结构的是cofirst在前面,做功能
cofirst在后面,发在了nature structure
总的来说我觉得很多情况下顺序还是贡献决定的,但是politics存在。politics无处不
在。
我有一个cofirst排在后面,主要被politics决定了。忍了之后,后面得到了一些小照
顾,老板还算有人品。

【在 b******d 的大作中提到】
:
: Co-first with a contributor from lab A physically first and co-
: corresponding. Most likely lab A started the project, found the function
: and mechanism and approached lab B for structure. Without lab A, the
: paper wouldn't be existing at the very moment (lab B could do X-Ray later
: after lab A publishes the result); without lab B, lab A could approach
: somebody else and/or publish (possibly) a lesser paper.
: The best option is to publish two papers back to back if they could pull
: it off.

avatar
s*f
23
本人
刚刚进实验室,做一个项目。一个快毕业的学生指导我做其中的某一个技术。后来这个
项目慢慢变成“咱俩”的项目了。再后来她私下跟老板说,能不能cofirst她在前面,
理由是她马上毕业要找工作。老板同意了。
我也没争,小项目,JMB文章。
那是我第一次见很会“混”的人。脸皮厚。

be

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Has anyone even involved in this situation? you guys just say what should be
: , not what really be.

avatar
b*d
24

I don't know the details of this particular paper. However, based on the
fact that it's published in Nature Structure, I tend to think that
"biology" story was probably incomplete, i.e. lack of killer evidence,
such as direct target and/or concrete mechanisms. If it were a more
complete story, it could have published standalone in a good journal. I
remember that you said Lab A is big cow boss (bigger than Lab B?). I
would give the boss benefit of the doubt in this case and he/she probably
saw the biology story was not compelling enough w/o the structure.
It's good to know that your boss eventually returned some favors to you.
In most cases, the words that he/she carefully chooses in the
recommendation letter matter more :)

【在 s**f 的大作中提到】
: 所有的“biology”都来自A实验室。结果是解了结构的是cofirst在前面,做功能
: cofirst在后面,发在了nature structure
: 总的来说我觉得很多情况下顺序还是贡献决定的,但是politics存在。politics无处不
: 在。
: 我有一个cofirst排在后面,主要被politics决定了。忍了之后,后面得到了一些小照
: 顾,老板还算有人品。

avatar
s*f
25
老板的推荐信写的很好。主要是我从不跟他对着干,没这个本事。
这个文章主要问题是蛋白是病毒的,不是人的,功能“重要”不起来。没有结构的话,
我估计就去JBC或者JV了。

【在 b******d 的大作中提到】
:
: I don't know the details of this particular paper. However, based on the
: fact that it's published in Nature Structure, I tend to think that
: "biology" story was probably incomplete, i.e. lack of killer evidence,
: such as direct target and/or concrete mechanisms. If it were a more
: complete story, it could have published standalone in a good journal. I
: remember that you said Lab A is big cow boss (bigger than Lab B?). I
: would give the boss benefit of the doubt in this case and he/she probably
: saw the biology story was not compelling enough w/o the structure.
: It's good to know that your boss eventually returned some favors to you.

avatar
n*7
26
how can you tolerant that? You left that lab for this?
avatar
s*f
27
我当时PHD第三年,这篇文章虽然我是cofirst在后面,但是我当时想哦也我满足了毕业
的要求,后几年没什么毕业的压力。
当时看到好几个师兄师姐地5年还没paper,我觉得发表了就胜利了。
这个paper不是我做了1年多被人抢去了,总共也就做了几个月(小paper),有一个技
术也是别人交的,只当学习了。

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: how can you tolerant that? You left that lab for this?
avatar
n*7
28
I see.My boss always push me to do many critical experimets. I can do any
experiments the first one did. but ..... chinese boss.
avatar
l*n
29
1st of co-1st & 2nd of co-1st
Nature & Nature Medicine
pd-ing big lab & pd-ing small lab
Harvard & Chinese Harvard
李鸿章 & 俾斯麦
俾斯麦说:“你们都说李鸿章是‘东方的俾斯麦’,但我可不愿意被你们说成是‘西方
的李鸿章’”。
avatar
g*e
30
我们实验室有这样的一种情况:
某人只写,不做,一点都不做的那种,就是连数据都不分析。
然后统统挂共同一作。
所以2年,发了10多篇吧。
然后前几天,我的文章,白白让另外一个人挂共同一作(100%都是我一个人的工作),
老板说这样那人好毕业,没办法。
共同一作 很难判断。
我只说我们实验室的情况,其他的不知道。
我觉得应该是这样:idea很重要,实验完成也很重要。
其他的都往后排。
avatar
p*l
31
白白让人挂并列一作?挂第二就无所谓,挂并列一作没有什么贡献也可以?
你在老板面前也太妥协啦
最好的就是idea自己的,实验自己做,或者找技术员帮忙,但绝对要分清主次
数据自己分析,paper自己写
作者顺序基本自己可以说了算,老板要加谁需要和你商量
hehe

【在 g******e 的大作中提到】
: 我们实验室有这样的一种情况:
: 某人只写,不做,一点都不做的那种,就是连数据都不分析。
: 然后统统挂共同一作。
: 所以2年,发了10多篇吧。
: 然后前几天,我的文章,白白让另外一个人挂共同一作(100%都是我一个人的工作),
: 老板说这样那人好毕业,没办法。
: 共同一作 很难判断。
: 我只说我们实验室的情况,其他的不知道。
: 我觉得应该是这样:idea很重要,实验完成也很重要。
: 其他的都往后排。

avatar
P*l
32
好几个并列一作的咋解释呢

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: Hi Guys,
: What is your opinion about co-first author, who did more for the paper? I
: found the second one usually did much more, because if the first guy did
: more, the second one should not have any chance to get the equal
: contribution authorship. IS that true?

avatar
n*k
33
you are either a newbie or still don't know research that well...one point I
like to make is that it is not how much you have done but how much you have
contributed to a study...Dependent on how you work, you may have done 70-90
% of the bench work but still have minimum contribution to the study and
dependent on how a particular PI's preference, one may get a first
authorship or even no (I mean Nth) authorship (esp if one is a tech) in such
a scenario...BTW, no offense, but frankly to make such a generalization
purely out of your own experience may say something...

【在 n********7 的大作中提到】
: I see.My boss always push me to do many critical experimets. I can do any
: experiments the first one did. but ..... chinese boss.

avatar
a*e
34
难怪
这种情况下当然是另一个实验室的人做first author了

【在 s**f 的大作中提到】
: 老板的推荐信写的很好。主要是我从不跟他对着干,没这个本事。
: 这个文章主要问题是蛋白是病毒的,不是人的,功能“重要”不起来。没有结构的话,
: 我估计就去JBC或者JV了。

avatar
o*r
35
呵呵,看上去更像一个PI

【在 p****l 的大作中提到】
: 白白让人挂并列一作?挂第二就无所谓,挂并列一作没有什么贡献也可以?
: 你在老板面前也太妥协啦
: 最好的就是idea自己的,实验自己做,或者找技术员帮忙,但绝对要分清主次
: 数据自己分析,paper自己写
: 作者顺序基本自己可以说了算,老板要加谁需要和你商量
: hehe

avatar
g*e
36

菩提子兄,感谢你的善意提醒。
碰到这样的老板,谁都没辙啊。
这样的老板 还要把自己那个发了十几篇的sci的(都是1-3分的)学生推出去
说要申请优博。。。
大家看看吧,没准明年优博还真有他呢,呵呵。

【在 p****l 的大作中提到】
: 白白让人挂并列一作?挂第二就无所谓,挂并列一作没有什么贡献也可以?
: 你在老板面前也太妥协啦
: 最好的就是idea自己的,实验自己做,或者找技术员帮忙,但绝对要分清主次
: 数据自己分析,paper自己写
: 作者顺序基本自己可以说了算,老板要加谁需要和你商量
: hehe

avatar
w*a
37
那谁写的文章?!

【在 s**f 的大作中提到】
: 有两个实验室合作。
: 一个分子的实验室(A)做一个蛋白很多年了,做了很多这个蛋白的功能。A的老板是这
: 个领域的牛人。现在他们想解这个蛋白的结构,请另一个结构实验室(B)的合作,做
: 结晶。
: A实验室的一个学生提纯蛋白,做功能。B的一个学生负责X-ray。
: 这篇paper应该怎么排作者?

avatar
f*k
38
我来亲身说一下吧,我的第一篇文章是跟我们实验室一老美共同第一作者的,我排在第
二,说实话,是很不爽,因为我做的实验比他多,而且他做的是phenotype,我是把
mechanism做出来了,老板因为这个还单独请我吃了顿饭,因为他没想到能把机理做出
来。但是他5年博士就这么一篇文章(准确说是半篇),老板跟我商量说我以后肯定会
再有文章出来的,让他名字排第一毕业就好了,因为他直接找了个teaching工作,连
postdoc都不想做。我当时是博士第三年,见老板这么说,也就没说什么。
但是后来看到别人引用我们这篇文章的时候,都是先引那个老美的名字然后et al.,心
里感觉真挺吃亏的,而且估计很多人看文章根本不会注意contribute equally to this
work这句话吧?所以如果能单独第一作者最好,共同第一作者的话,最好能弄到第一
个。
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