[合集] WSJ:1万个签证给美国大学主修工程信息自然科学博士# EB23 - 劳工卡
m*l
1 楼
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iceui (iceui) 于 (Sat Oct 22 14:14:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
Visas Could Aid Graduates
By LAURA MECKLER
Momentum is building in Congress toward offering expedited green cards to
people with advanced scientific degrees, addressing complaints from
companies that say the U.S. is training highly skilled workers only to lose
them to other countries.
Rep. Lamar Smith (R., Texas), chairman of the House immigration subcommittee
, said he plans to introduce legislation providing up to 10,000 visas a year
to foreign students graduating from U.S. universities with doctorates in
engineering, information technology and the natural sciences.
Many Democrats, including President Barack Obama, support increasing the
number of visas for workers with advanced training in those fields. But
efforts to address the issue have stalled amid a larger dispute between the
two parties over whether to provide a path to citizenship for people already
in the country illegally, which Democrats favor.
Those issues could still stall Mr. Smith's legislation, but lawmakers in
both parties seem willing to talk about finding a way forward. Mr. Smith
plans to meet with his Senate counterpart, Sen. Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.),
to discuss his legislation in early November, a Schumer aide said.
In May, the White House said the U.S. should be "stapling a green card" to
the diploma of every science, technology, engineering and math Ph.D.
graduate and to select masters' graduates, so that they can "contribute to
the American economy and become Americans over time." But that was in the
context of a broader White House immigration plan that included citizenship
opportunities for some illegal immigrants, an effort that collapsed amid
strong Republican opposition.
In its wake, the high-tech community began pushing for stand-alone
legislation.
The U.S. currently offers about 120,000 employment visas to professionals in
various fields, including science, engineering and information technology.
Many highly trained workers, particularly those from China and India, face
long waits for green cards and sometimes choose to work elsewhere.
Mr. Smith's legislation, which he said he would introduce in a few weeks,
would not increase the overall level of legal immigration. Instead,
congressional aides said, he plans to divert visas from programs such as the
"diversity lottery," which lets people from under-represented countries
compete for visas.
The diversity lottery offers 55,000 immigrant visas per year. A House
committee has voted to kill the program.
In an interview, Mr. Smith said students who would get visas under his bill
"really are going to contribute a great deal to our country and to the
economy, as well." He said he would limit eligibility to those with
doctorates from U.S. research universities, though others think the visas
should be available to those with masters' degrees, too. To qualify,
students would need to have job offers, and Mr. Smith said they should
commit to staying in the country for at least five years. "I want us to get
the most bang we can for the visa," Mr. Smith said.
In another signal of momentum, another Republican, Rep. Raul Labrador of
Idaho, introduced a similar bill this month. His bill took sections from
legislation offered in June by the top Democrat on the immigration
subcommittee, Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California, who represents Silicon Valley.
Ms. Lofgren added provisions to win support from the Congressional Hispanic
Caucus, including one that would allow students who were in the country
illegally during high school to qualify for foreign student visas if they
are pursuing science or technology degrees.
Mr. Smith considers that to be akin to "amnesty" and says he will not
support it. But Ms. Lofgren says any bill will have to be "balanced" to make
it through Congress.
Without Ms. Lofgren's provision, or something similar, Hispanic lawmakers
are likely to oppose the bill, partly because they believe they will find it
harder to push their cause later.
Rep. Charles Gonzalez (D., Texas), chairman of the Congressional Hispanic
Caucus, said of Mr. Smith's approach: "It's incomplete, inadequate and, in
my opinion, unfair." He said students brought to the U.S. as children should
be eligible for help.
The White House had no comment on the Smith legislation. In a statement, Mr.
Schumer said the bill that Mr. Smith had in mind could not pass the Senate
without changes, but he also signaled interest in working with Mr. Smith on
the matter.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020375260457664535
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 15:09:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
问题就是没有人愿意让步。
我觉着像这样的STEM法案应该也包括那些illegal 的DREAM kid. 如果他们也拿到了PhD
in STEM的话。不然，根本过不了参议院。
lose
subcommittee
year
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granulae (努力工作) 于 (Sat Oct 22 15:21:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
这种提案出现了好多次了。好像没一次能立案的，更不要提投票了。
PhD
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 15:33:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
这次比原来规模小得多: 1) 没有增加总的移民水平； 2）只限于PhD; 3) 只限于research universities.
规模小，争议就小。
问题是，应不应该包括Dream kid, 如果他们也拿到了PhD in STEM from US research universities. 我觉着应该！
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 17:34:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果EB绿卡的总额只有12万，把dreamer加进来的话只能进一步挤压合法Eb的份额，要
知道符合dreamer条件的高中生每年就5-6万，更别说他们的亲属会因此合法化，所以我
觉得共和党不会轻易让步。
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dellgateway (dellgateway) 于 (Sat Oct 22 18:32:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
Dream Act绝对荒谬至极。凭什么非法高中生就直接给绿卡，而合法博士要必须是国际
顶级专家才给绿卡？
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Beijing (中国万岁，北京加油) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:12:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
这个法案估计连yy的资格都没有
，要
以我
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:27:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
这里说的是这1万个高科技STEM PhD的绿卡名额。
我说的是，如果某个Dream kid也从research universities拿了STEM的PhD, 他们应该
和我们一样，能从这1万个绿卡里拿名额.
那些美国议员是认选票，不管国家死活的主儿。所以他们不会轻易因为会给国家留人才
，而放弃他们那些Dream kid. 那些kid在他们心里是宝贝。
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granulae (努力工作) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:37:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
1）DREAM kid的亲属可以提供选票
2）美帝高校需要廉价postdoc
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:41:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果我们的STEM PhD可以绿卡免名额，那么DREAM kid的STEM PhD也应该可以绿卡免名
额。
也就是说，如果我们的PhD是PhD, 那么他们的PhD也是PhD.
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granulae (努力工作) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:45:54 2011, 美东) 提到:
你觉得DREAM kid读完PhD的时候还会没有绿卡？这些人都有亲戚在这边，读完PhD都已
经在
这边10几年了，估计citizen都拿到了。
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tmd001 (The Movie Depot) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:23:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
怎么又扯上非法移民小孩读理工科PHD了？大部分老墨小孩能高中毕业就不错了，能大学毕业就谢天谢地了，能混个人文类的博士那就是祖坟冒烟了。你让他们读完理工科的博士才给绿卡？他们会认为你简直就是在调戏他们。他们要求的是只要非法移民小孩进入大学就读(不管学什么，
懿荒鼙弦，就发绿卡。这个其实就是非法移民大赦。
每次共和党提出有利职业移民的提案，民主党，特别是西裔民主党议员就要求把非法移民也带上，否则就是不公平，就坚决反对，可见民主党反动透顶，荒唐至极。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:40:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果参议院还是Dick Durbin 和 Harry Reid 这两个人在里面，那就永远不能通过任
何高科技移民改革法案，除非里面包含对dream kid有利的条款。
特别是Dick Durbin这个人。
大学毕业就谢天谢地了，能混个人文类的博士那就是祖坟冒烟了。你让他们读完理工科
的博士才给绿卡？他们会认为你简直就是在调戏他们。他们要求的是只要非法移民小孩
进入大学就读(不管学什么，不管能不能毕业)，就发绿卡。这个其实就是非法移民大赦。
移民也带上，否则就是不公平，就坚决反对，可见民主党反动透顶，荒唐至极。
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tmd001 (The Movie Depot) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:48:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
所以我说民主党反动透顶，为了西裔选票，绑架职业移民当人质。 大伙该干啥干啥去，这提
案没戏。
赦。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:51:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
实际上我觉着，应该有着这种方案。
应该允许有些Dream kid合法。特别是这样的STEM法案里。
Lofgren 2161法案也有有利于部分Dream kid合法的条款。所以就能获得一些支持非法
移民的议员的联署。
得让步才能有进步，现在有些议员太骄傲了，比如Lamar Smith.
去，这提
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:54:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
我还没注意这一万只是工作签证，还不是绿卡。dreamer 进来对老中并非利好，就算只
给他们国际学生签证，首先对那些因为想上好学校，好专业，没奖，没工作经验，没结
婚就被据签的中国F1是不公平的。15岁以前来美可不是第一代移民，dreamer 的英语要
比研究生阶段才来美的老中好很多，工作签证的竞争会更加激烈。好象现在Eb3的数量
中国就不但落后烙印，还落后菲律宾，墨西哥排第4，所以我还是觉的你不扩大H1和绿
卡配额的前提下，dreamer合法化直接受害者不是美国人而是合法的f1,h1,Eb.至于选票
方面，太多的妥协虽然会多一些民主党选票，但可能会失去整个共和党的支持，如果你
只要60%，共和党加几票民主党说不定就够了。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 22:03:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
这1万是绿卡，不是工作签证。
是从diversity visa那里划拨过来给US research universities的PhD degree holder
的。
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 22:44:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
"Rep. Lamar Smith (R., Texas), chairman of the House immigration
subcommittee, said he plans to introduce legislation providing up to 10,000
visas a year to foreign students graduating from U.S. universities with
doctorates in engineering, information technology and the natural sciences."
我觉得是签证H1,不是绿卡，但有可能不占2万配额，而且是有stem博士学位就发，以后
可能能转绿卡。要是占绿卡份额就更不应该支持和dreamer分了。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 22:49:58 2011, 美东) 提到:
是绿卡！绿卡也是签证啊！
would not increase the overall level of legal immigration. Instead,
congressional aides said, he plans to divert visas from programs such as the
"diversity lottery,"
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 23:24:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
绿卡是签证,但签证不是绿卡。我觉得写这个新闻的记者对这两个概念不是太清楚(也许
大多数美国人都不清楚），许多地方用visa其实是指绿卡容易使人产生歧义。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 23:39:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
写的清清楚楚，从diversity lottery 转过来的，难道还能是工作签证？Lamar Smith
就是建议拿10k的抽签绿卡用到STEM PhD上。
可是这个法案如果没有benefit dream kid的条款，绝对无法通过参议院。所以，我觉
着应该加上无论是不是合法身份，只要是能够从美国的research universities拿到
STEM的PhD, 都可以按照一样的程序从这10k里面拿到绿卡。
这样至少从理论上照顾到了dream kid. 而其他们的STEM的PhD应该很少，对10k的名额
影响不大。
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sun Oct 23 00:05:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果从lottery省过来的应该是绿卡，它不应该用visa.民主党Lofgren年年都提象2161
那样的，搭少了民主党不干，搭多了共和党总投反对票，宁可不移民，也不要非法移
民。这个只要搭dreamer,就算house过了，senate 那边也过不了。民主党更容易分化，
而共和党几乎是死板一块。
iceui (iceui) 于 (Sat Oct 22 14:14:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
Visas Could Aid Graduates
By LAURA MECKLER
Momentum is building in Congress toward offering expedited green cards to
people with advanced scientific degrees, addressing complaints from
companies that say the U.S. is training highly skilled workers only to lose
them to other countries.
Rep. Lamar Smith (R., Texas), chairman of the House immigration subcommittee
, said he plans to introduce legislation providing up to 10,000 visas a year
to foreign students graduating from U.S. universities with doctorates in
engineering, information technology and the natural sciences.
Many Democrats, including President Barack Obama, support increasing the
number of visas for workers with advanced training in those fields. But
efforts to address the issue have stalled amid a larger dispute between the
two parties over whether to provide a path to citizenship for people already
in the country illegally, which Democrats favor.
Those issues could still stall Mr. Smith's legislation, but lawmakers in
both parties seem willing to talk about finding a way forward. Mr. Smith
plans to meet with his Senate counterpart, Sen. Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.),
to discuss his legislation in early November, a Schumer aide said.
In May, the White House said the U.S. should be "stapling a green card" to
the diploma of every science, technology, engineering and math Ph.D.
graduate and to select masters' graduates, so that they can "contribute to
the American economy and become Americans over time." But that was in the
context of a broader White House immigration plan that included citizenship
opportunities for some illegal immigrants, an effort that collapsed amid
strong Republican opposition.
In its wake, the high-tech community began pushing for stand-alone
legislation.
The U.S. currently offers about 120,000 employment visas to professionals in
various fields, including science, engineering and information technology.
Many highly trained workers, particularly those from China and India, face
long waits for green cards and sometimes choose to work elsewhere.
Mr. Smith's legislation, which he said he would introduce in a few weeks,
would not increase the overall level of legal immigration. Instead,
congressional aides said, he plans to divert visas from programs such as the
"diversity lottery," which lets people from under-represented countries
compete for visas.
The diversity lottery offers 55,000 immigrant visas per year. A House
committee has voted to kill the program.
In an interview, Mr. Smith said students who would get visas under his bill
"really are going to contribute a great deal to our country and to the
economy, as well." He said he would limit eligibility to those with
doctorates from U.S. research universities, though others think the visas
should be available to those with masters' degrees, too. To qualify,
students would need to have job offers, and Mr. Smith said they should
commit to staying in the country for at least five years. "I want us to get
the most bang we can for the visa," Mr. Smith said.
In another signal of momentum, another Republican, Rep. Raul Labrador of
Idaho, introduced a similar bill this month. His bill took sections from
legislation offered in June by the top Democrat on the immigration
subcommittee, Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California, who represents Silicon Valley.
Ms. Lofgren added provisions to win support from the Congressional Hispanic
Caucus, including one that would allow students who were in the country
illegally during high school to qualify for foreign student visas if they
are pursuing science or technology degrees.
Mr. Smith considers that to be akin to "amnesty" and says he will not
support it. But Ms. Lofgren says any bill will have to be "balanced" to make
it through Congress.
Without Ms. Lofgren's provision, or something similar, Hispanic lawmakers
are likely to oppose the bill, partly because they believe they will find it
harder to push their cause later.
Rep. Charles Gonzalez (D., Texas), chairman of the Congressional Hispanic
Caucus, said of Mr. Smith's approach: "It's incomplete, inadequate and, in
my opinion, unfair." He said students brought to the U.S. as children should
be eligible for help.
The White House had no comment on the Smith legislation. In a statement, Mr.
Schumer said the bill that Mr. Smith had in mind could not pass the Senate
without changes, but he also signaled interest in working with Mr. Smith on
the matter.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020375260457664535
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 15:09:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
问题就是没有人愿意让步。
我觉着像这样的STEM法案应该也包括那些illegal 的DREAM kid. 如果他们也拿到了PhD
in STEM的话。不然，根本过不了参议院。
lose
subcommittee
year
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
granulae (努力工作) 于 (Sat Oct 22 15:21:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
这种提案出现了好多次了。好像没一次能立案的，更不要提投票了。
PhD
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 15:33:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
这次比原来规模小得多: 1) 没有增加总的移民水平； 2）只限于PhD; 3) 只限于research universities.
规模小，争议就小。
问题是，应不应该包括Dream kid, 如果他们也拿到了PhD in STEM from US research universities. 我觉着应该！
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 17:34:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果EB绿卡的总额只有12万，把dreamer加进来的话只能进一步挤压合法Eb的份额，要
知道符合dreamer条件的高中生每年就5-6万，更别说他们的亲属会因此合法化，所以我
觉得共和党不会轻易让步。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
dellgateway (dellgateway) 于 (Sat Oct 22 18:32:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
Dream Act绝对荒谬至极。凭什么非法高中生就直接给绿卡，而合法博士要必须是国际
顶级专家才给绿卡？
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
Beijing (中国万岁，北京加油) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:12:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
这个法案估计连yy的资格都没有
，要
以我
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:27:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
这里说的是这1万个高科技STEM PhD的绿卡名额。
我说的是，如果某个Dream kid也从research universities拿了STEM的PhD, 他们应该
和我们一样，能从这1万个绿卡里拿名额.
那些美国议员是认选票，不管国家死活的主儿。所以他们不会轻易因为会给国家留人才
，而放弃他们那些Dream kid. 那些kid在他们心里是宝贝。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
granulae (努力工作) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:37:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
1）DREAM kid的亲属可以提供选票
2）美帝高校需要廉价postdoc
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:41:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果我们的STEM PhD可以绿卡免名额，那么DREAM kid的STEM PhD也应该可以绿卡免名
额。
也就是说，如果我们的PhD是PhD, 那么他们的PhD也是PhD.
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
granulae (努力工作) 于 (Sat Oct 22 20:45:54 2011, 美东) 提到:
你觉得DREAM kid读完PhD的时候还会没有绿卡？这些人都有亲戚在这边，读完PhD都已
经在
这边10几年了，估计citizen都拿到了。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
tmd001 (The Movie Depot) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:23:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
怎么又扯上非法移民小孩读理工科PHD了？大部分老墨小孩能高中毕业就不错了，能大学毕业就谢天谢地了，能混个人文类的博士那就是祖坟冒烟了。你让他们读完理工科的博士才给绿卡？他们会认为你简直就是在调戏他们。他们要求的是只要非法移民小孩进入大学就读(不管学什么，
懿荒鼙弦，就发绿卡。这个其实就是非法移民大赦。
每次共和党提出有利职业移民的提案，民主党，特别是西裔民主党议员就要求把非法移民也带上，否则就是不公平，就坚决反对，可见民主党反动透顶，荒唐至极。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:40:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果参议院还是Dick Durbin 和 Harry Reid 这两个人在里面，那就永远不能通过任
何高科技移民改革法案，除非里面包含对dream kid有利的条款。
特别是Dick Durbin这个人。
大学毕业就谢天谢地了，能混个人文类的博士那就是祖坟冒烟了。你让他们读完理工科
的博士才给绿卡？他们会认为你简直就是在调戏他们。他们要求的是只要非法移民小孩
进入大学就读(不管学什么，不管能不能毕业)，就发绿卡。这个其实就是非法移民大赦。
移民也带上，否则就是不公平，就坚决反对，可见民主党反动透顶，荒唐至极。
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tmd001 (The Movie Depot) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:48:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
所以我说民主党反动透顶，为了西裔选票，绑架职业移民当人质。 大伙该干啥干啥去，这提
案没戏。
赦。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:51:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
实际上我觉着，应该有着这种方案。
应该允许有些Dream kid合法。特别是这样的STEM法案里。
Lofgren 2161法案也有有利于部分Dream kid合法的条款。所以就能获得一些支持非法
移民的议员的联署。
得让步才能有进步，现在有些议员太骄傲了，比如Lamar Smith.
去，这提
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 21:54:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
我还没注意这一万只是工作签证，还不是绿卡。dreamer 进来对老中并非利好，就算只
给他们国际学生签证，首先对那些因为想上好学校，好专业，没奖，没工作经验，没结
婚就被据签的中国F1是不公平的。15岁以前来美可不是第一代移民，dreamer 的英语要
比研究生阶段才来美的老中好很多，工作签证的竞争会更加激烈。好象现在Eb3的数量
中国就不但落后烙印，还落后菲律宾，墨西哥排第4，所以我还是觉的你不扩大H1和绿
卡配额的前提下，dreamer合法化直接受害者不是美国人而是合法的f1,h1,Eb.至于选票
方面，太多的妥协虽然会多一些民主党选票，但可能会失去整个共和党的支持，如果你
只要60%，共和党加几票民主党说不定就够了。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 22:03:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
这1万是绿卡，不是工作签证。
是从diversity visa那里划拨过来给US research universities的PhD degree holder
的。
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 22:44:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
"Rep. Lamar Smith (R., Texas), chairman of the House immigration
subcommittee, said he plans to introduce legislation providing up to 10,000
visas a year to foreign students graduating from U.S. universities with
doctorates in engineering, information technology and the natural sciences."
我觉得是签证H1,不是绿卡，但有可能不占2万配额，而且是有stem博士学位就发，以后
可能能转绿卡。要是占绿卡份额就更不应该支持和dreamer分了。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 22:49:58 2011, 美东) 提到:
是绿卡！绿卡也是签证啊！
would not increase the overall level of legal immigration. Instead,
congressional aides said, he plans to divert visas from programs such as the
"diversity lottery,"
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sat Oct 22 23:24:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
绿卡是签证,但签证不是绿卡。我觉得写这个新闻的记者对这两个概念不是太清楚(也许
大多数美国人都不清楚），许多地方用visa其实是指绿卡容易使人产生歧义。
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fakaoti08 (fakati08) 于 (Sat Oct 22 23:39:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
写的清清楚楚，从diversity lottery 转过来的，难道还能是工作签证？Lamar Smith
就是建议拿10k的抽签绿卡用到STEM PhD上。
可是这个法案如果没有benefit dream kid的条款，绝对无法通过参议院。所以，我觉
着应该加上无论是不是合法身份，只要是能够从美国的research universities拿到
STEM的PhD, 都可以按照一样的程序从这10k里面拿到绿卡。
这样至少从理论上照顾到了dream kid. 而其他们的STEM的PhD应该很少，对10k的名额
影响不大。
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mimmi (mimmi) 于 (Sun Oct 23 00:05:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果从lottery省过来的应该是绿卡，它不应该用visa.民主党Lofgren年年都提象2161
那样的，搭少了民主党不干，搭多了共和党总投反对票，宁可不移民，也不要非法移
民。这个只要搭dreamer,就算house过了，senate 那边也过不了。民主党更容易分化，
而共和党几乎是死板一块。