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【 以下文字转载自 Seattle 讨论区 】
发信人: huduo (huduo), 信区: Seattle
标 题: only go to Amazon if you cannot go elsewhere
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 3 14:16:51 2011, 美东)
I've been a manager at Microsoft for many years, and over the last few years
I had previous employees leave for better offers at Amazon and other
companies, including several startups and Google. Those were 20-30 years old
guys coming from strong universities, and stuck at level 59-60, since I
couldn't promote them fast enough. I kept in touch with most of them over
time, and what I hear is that most of those companies also have morons all
over, including lots of people that failed miserably at Microsoft and left
in anger.
The guys who left for startups keep in touch with one goal: to poach me to
go there. The guy who left for Google is kind of happy, and told me many
times that would only return to Microsoft if working for me "in the right
project". The guy who went to Amazon already interviewed back for Microsoft
positions, and failed.
After a cold call from one of their recruiters, I myself interviewed for a
position within Amazon that was fully related to my skills, experience and
interest. After doing well in the phone interviews, I was unimpressed by
their in person interview system with 45 minutes per interviewer. I was
interviewing for a management position, and when I cited that I typically
don’t give that much incentive or reward for people doing extra hours for
prolonged periods, I was immediately challenged about the need of “hard
work” to demonstrate one’s value. I felt I was dealing with a bunch of
developers suffering from chronic lack of confidence, and tied to their
positions (maybe through the same H1B process that Microsoft also uses;
since everyone in my interview loop was from India). In the end, my
perception was that those I talked with were too junior, being exploited by
Amazon without any mercy. Even the recruiter at the end of the loop told me
it would be hard to make me a good offer, and that Amazon can get at most
Senior SDEs out of Microsoft, and can hardly make a good offer for
Principals+, except for those with bad reviews. I withdrew my candidacy
after the interviews in person at their offices. Not to my surprise, they
ignored my message and sent me back anyway a message saying they were
impressed with my skills but preferred to consider other candidates (don’t
know why recruiters prefer to keep statistics this way). My advice for
people that ask for it: only go to Amazon if you cannot go elsewhere, or as
an intermediate sweatshop step in your career. Long term, it is a far worse
deal than Microsoft (unless, like at Microsoft, you are brought in by
friends, like most of Qi Lu’s team).
发信人: huduo (huduo), 信区: Seattle
标 题: only go to Amazon if you cannot go elsewhere
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 3 14:16:51 2011, 美东)
I've been a manager at Microsoft for many years, and over the last few years
I had previous employees leave for better offers at Amazon and other
companies, including several startups and Google. Those were 20-30 years old
guys coming from strong universities, and stuck at level 59-60, since I
couldn't promote them fast enough. I kept in touch with most of them over
time, and what I hear is that most of those companies also have morons all
over, including lots of people that failed miserably at Microsoft and left
in anger.
The guys who left for startups keep in touch with one goal: to poach me to
go there. The guy who left for Google is kind of happy, and told me many
times that would only return to Microsoft if working for me "in the right
project". The guy who went to Amazon already interviewed back for Microsoft
positions, and failed.
After a cold call from one of their recruiters, I myself interviewed for a
position within Amazon that was fully related to my skills, experience and
interest. After doing well in the phone interviews, I was unimpressed by
their in person interview system with 45 minutes per interviewer. I was
interviewing for a management position, and when I cited that I typically
don’t give that much incentive or reward for people doing extra hours for
prolonged periods, I was immediately challenged about the need of “hard
work” to demonstrate one’s value. I felt I was dealing with a bunch of
developers suffering from chronic lack of confidence, and tied to their
positions (maybe through the same H1B process that Microsoft also uses;
since everyone in my interview loop was from India). In the end, my
perception was that those I talked with were too junior, being exploited by
Amazon without any mercy. Even the recruiter at the end of the loop told me
it would be hard to make me a good offer, and that Amazon can get at most
Senior SDEs out of Microsoft, and can hardly make a good offer for
Principals+, except for those with bad reviews. I withdrew my candidacy
after the interviews in person at their offices. Not to my surprise, they
ignored my message and sent me back anyway a message saying they were
impressed with my skills but preferred to consider other candidates (don’t
know why recruiters prefer to keep statistics this way). My advice for
people that ask for it: only go to Amazon if you cannot go elsewhere, or as
an intermediate sweatshop step in your career. Long term, it is a far worse
deal than Microsoft (unless, like at Microsoft, you are brought in by
friends, like most of Qi Lu’s team).
