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JavaFX# Java - 爪哇娇娃

g*g2007-05-11 07:05

1 楼

Java one is much about JavaFX this year, which may be the next big
thing, oh well, we all know Sun. The biggest deal is that they never
give you a nice IDE to begin with.
But I like the idea and wish it could beat AJAX in 2 years. JS is
just a pain in the butt.

A*o2007-05-11 07:05

2 楼

js is not sun's fault.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Java one is much about JavaFX this year, which may be the next big
: thing, oh well, we all know Sun. The biggest deal is that they never
: give you a nice IDE to begin with.
: But I like the idea and wish it could beat AJAX in 2 years. JS is
: just a pain in the butt.

c*t2007-05-11 07:05

3 楼

Personally, I like JavaScript. The problem with JS is that
1. different browser has different version support. (minor issue)
2. different browser has different CSS support. (big issue)
3. memory leaks in IE which severely restrict how JS could be coded
to avoid the leak. (big issue)
These problems are beyond JavaScript. JS is a very different
language from OO languages like Java/C++, so it is normally that
you don't feel comfortable with it. I think that it has a great
potential for its

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

w*n2007-05-11 07:05

4 楼

Why not flash? Well. I have used OpenLaszlo(similar to flex) in a serious
project. It is really nice to use Flash to build fancy UI. However, when
going to detail, you will find you need more than just UI. It it really
difficult to implement some functionalities with Action Scripts, though
there are tons of java library available. As a workaround, we have to send
requests to server to implement it.
If SUN is able to reduce the startup time on JavaFX, I would like to try it,
since I am able to us

【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】

: Personally, I like JavaScript. The problem with JS is that
: 1. different browser has different version support. (minor issue)
: 2. different browser has different CSS support. (big issue)
: 3. memory leaks in IE which severely restrict how JS could be coded
: to avoid the leak. (big issue)
: These problems are beyond JavaScript. JS is a very different
: language from OO languages like Java/C++, so it is normally that
: you don't feel comfortable with it. I think that it has a great
: potential for its

m*t2007-05-11 07:05

5 楼

I haven't looked at the technical details of JavaFX yet. One thing to note,
though, is that these things aren't usually decided entirely on their
technical merits.
One key, non-technical ingredient in AJAX's success that I have not seen in
Java FX is the endorsement from most, if not all, major players in the field
- notably Microsoft. It's one thing for server-side Java to thrive on its
own as its environment can be completely independent from anything Microsoft
, it's a whole different one for

g*g2007-05-11 07:05

6 楼

A JRE plugin is inevitable, however, rumor is saying
Suns is gonna to slim it down to 2-4M. Probably modulize
JRE and take the core and other neccesary parts only.
If flash can be popular, I don't think that will be
a huge problem for JavaFX

,
in
field
Microsoft

【在 m******t 的大作中提到】

: I haven't looked at the technical details of JavaFX yet. One thing to note,
: though, is that these things aren't usually decided entirely on their
: technical merits.
: One key, non-technical ingredient in AJAX's success that I have not seen in
: Java FX is the endorsement from most, if not all, major players in the field
: - notably Microsoft. It's one thing for server-side Java to thrive on its
: own as its environment can be completely independent from anything Microsoft
: , it's a whole different one for

c*t2007-05-11 07:05

7 楼

Currently it is aimed at mobile market, so not much problems.
However, if the goal is to compete with Flash, it really needs
to address several issues:
1. startup time. Shared JVM instance with classes pre-loaded is
the way to go. JNLP is not going to work well.
2. Permission. Demos are using full permission. This is not going
to work for generic sites which are less trustable. There can
be additional security issues.
3. Code obsfucation. I don't think JavaFX programmers want the

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: A JRE plugin is inevitable, however, rumor is saying
: Suns is gonna to slim it down to 2-4M. Probably modulize
: JRE and take the core and other neccesary parts only.
: If flash can be popular, I don't think that will be
: a huge problem for JavaFX
:
: ,
: in
: field
: Microsoft

m*t2007-05-11 07:05

8 楼

Sure. I looked around the javafx site this morning. Looks like it's web
start based. I guess if Sun can make it real easy to download and install
the trimmed-down JRE, it will have a good chance to catch up to flash.
Of course, "real easy" would have to be something similar to the flash
player installation - a link in place on the web page that starts the
installer right there. Asking the user to go to a web site, download some
exe, and install it isn't going to work.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

m*t2007-05-11 07:05

9 楼

I wonder how flash player deals with this - we never see security warnings
from playing a flash.
That probably can't be helped - java classes can be decompiled, if someone
really wants it.

【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】

: Currently it is aimed at mobile market, so not much problems.
: However, if the goal is to compete with Flash, it really needs
: to address several issues:
: 1. startup time. Shared JVM instance with classes pre-loaded is
: the way to go. JNLP is not going to work well.
: 2. Permission. Demos are using full permission. This is not going
: to work for generic sites which are less trustable. There can
: be additional security issues.
: 3. Code obsfucation. I don't think JavaFX programmers want the

g*g2007-05-11 07:05

10 楼

Well, actually you do install a plugin, both IE and FF will prompt you
at the top of page, ask you if you want to install it.
JavaFx can do it in the same way.
Obfuscation can come to rescue if that really concerns you.

【在 m******t 的大作中提到】

:
: I wonder how flash player deals with this - we never see security warnings
: from playing a flash.
: That probably can't be helped - java classes can be decompiled, if someone
: really wants it.

c*t2007-05-11 07:05

11 楼

The problem with JavaFX is that the demo is available with complete
source code (pretty much like JavaScript). Not even compiled binaries.

【在 m******t 的大作中提到】

:
: I wonder how flash player deals with this - we never see security warnings
: from playing a flash.
: That probably can't be helped - java classes can be decompiled, if someone
: really wants it.

g*g2007-05-11 07:05

12 楼

Aren't all these AJAX lib in plain text too?
I sort of feel nowadays copyright is protected by license and law,
not source code availability.

【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】

: The problem with JavaFX is that the demo is available with complete
: source code (pretty much like JavaScript). Not even compiled binaries.

c*t2007-05-11 07:05

13 楼

Take a look at studiomoto demo jar:
http://download.java.net/general/openjfx/demos/studiomoto.jar
and you would understand my concern. It is just way too easy
stealing the code. With AJAX, at least there are some server
components which cannot be inspected. JavaFX is mainly a client
thing.
Imagine someone wrote a cool animation and the next person took
the jar and replaced all the credits and redistributed it. You
just need a zip utility and a text editor to do all the changes.
Sure there ar

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Aren't all these AJAX lib in plain text too?
: I sort of feel nowadays copyright is protected by license and law,
: not source code availability.

g*g2007-05-11 07:05

14 楼

I believe we'll get a compiler soon. Compiled code just
runs faster, and it will get rid of the problem you have.
Bottom line, I feel JavaFX will attract lots of Swing/SWT developers,
declartively writing your view part really make MVC separation,
and task distribution between designers and developers simpler.
Being able to use all existing Java lib smoothly on client side
is a big bonus. Retaining Java's OOP is really a killer for AJAX.
Maybe the right name for JavaFX should be Applet 2.0
While

【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】

: Take a look at studiomoto demo jar:
: http://download.java.net/general/openjfx/demos/studiomoto.jar
: and you would understand my concern. It is just way too easy
: stealing the code. With AJAX, at least there are some server
: components which cannot be inspected. JavaFX is mainly a client
: thing.
: Imagine someone wrote a cool animation and the next person took
: the jar and replaced all the credits and redistributed it. You
: just need a zip utility and a text editor to do all the changes.
: Sure there ar

m*t2007-05-11 07:05

15 楼

OK, the more I read about this, the more it looks to me like JavaFX is more
likely to be a direct compete against flash and Microsoft's Silverlight,
instead of AJAX. It having to run in a plugin will restrict its flexibility
and interoperability with the data on rest of the page. On the other hand,
AJAX - javascript in particular - allows such interaction with some very
fine granularity.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: I believe we'll get a compiler soon. Compiled code just
: runs faster, and it will get rid of the problem you have.
: Bottom line, I feel JavaFX will attract lots of Swing/SWT developers,
: declartively writing your view part really make MVC separation,
: and task distribution between designers and developers simpler.
: Being able to use all existing Java lib smoothly on client side
: is a big bonus. Retaining Java's OOP is really a killer for AJAX.
: Maybe the right name for JavaFX should be Applet 2.0
: While

g*g2007-05-11 07:05

16 楼

Yes, it aims at RIA, if you don't need any fancy GUI, JSP can still
serve you well. But once you are heavily using big AJAX lib, JavaFX
would certainly be an alternative.

more
flexibility
,

【在 m******t 的大作中提到】

:
: OK, the more I read about this, the more it looks to me like JavaFX is more
: likely to be a direct compete against flash and Microsoft's Silverlight,
: instead of AJAX. It having to run in a plugin will restrict its flexibility
: and interoperability with the data on rest of the page. On the other hand,
: AJAX - javascript in particular - allows such interaction with some very
: fine granularity.

c*o2007-05-11 07:05

17 楼

can someone give a tutorial about pros and cons:
silverlight, flex, openlaszlo, javaFX
have no experience with any of them but interested.
thanks.

more
flexibility
,

【在 m******t 的大作中提到】

w*r2007-05-11 07:05

18 楼

Action script is invented for gui control only. Logic and functionalities
should always been implemented in a mature platform. There was one effort
from my previouse job using flash to build data mining tools , totally
disasterous. Of course, I was against the stupid idea from the beginning.
Flash is just an eye candy tool nowadays, not a full fledged platform to
build application .

j*o2007-05-11 07:05

19 楼

Well, it failed to impress me. The demonstrator had a crash that
she was not able to recover after at least 15 minutes:-)
Don't know if it offers any advantage over Windows Mobile or
Palm...is iphone gonna use it?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

w*n2007-05-11 07:05

20 楼

I believe JavaFX is competing with Adobe Flex.

【在 j******o 的大作中提到】

: Well, it failed to impress me. The demonstrator had a crash that
: she was not able to recover after at least 15 minutes:-)
: Don't know if it offers any advantage over Windows Mobile or
: Palm...is iphone gonna use it?

m*t2007-05-11 07:05

21 楼

I guess you missed the "Steve Jobs says Java doesn't go with Apple" news,
did you? 8-)

【在 j******o 的大作中提到】