比较一下,d9和avatar - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

国际科技财经博客移民网络热点娱乐民生时事公众号

Redian新闻

>未名空间

>Movie - 无限影话

比较一下,d9和avatar

比较一下,d9和avatar# Movie - 无限影话

b*a2010-01-13 08:01

1 楼

【以下文字转载自 Visa 讨论区】
发信人: blessmalika (鱼老师三大爱好——抽烟，喝酒，烫头！), 信区: Visa
标题: 中信递签用不用预约？
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Apr 9 14:31:19 2013, 美东)
弱问。。。F1 回国返签，中信递签的，是不是没有“预约”这一说？我现在是，网上
注册，中信交￥1008，然后打印DropBox confirmation letter都弄完了，没看到网上
个人页面里有任何关于需要预约的。这个递签是不是没有预约啊？我接下来是不是就等
着回国直奔中信交材料就行？
谢谢~

t*92010-01-13 08:01

2 楼

H4签证，没有ssn号码，报联邦税的时候同时递交w-7申请itin，
那么报州税的时候怎么办？
等itin下来后再报，
还是说能和联邦税一起递交到irs的办公室？
谢谢

S*x2010-01-13 08:01

3 楼

d9故事好,场面嘛因为刚开始,所以场面不大
avatar场面好,故事差
我觉得应该让cameron拍d9 2,前提是他不要看剧本,只管导特效

g*d2010-01-13 08:01

4 楼

没有预约
一个星期签证就下来了

【在 b*********a 的大作中提到】

: 【以下文字转载自 Visa 讨论区】
: 发信人: blessmalika (鱼老师三大爱好——抽烟，喝酒，烫头！), 信区: Visa
: 标题: 中信递签用不用预约？
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Apr 9 14:31:19 2013, 美东)
: 弱问。。。F1 回国返签，中信递签的，是不是没有“预约”这一说？我现在是，网上
: 注册，中信交￥1008，然后打印DropBox confirmation letter都弄完了，没看到网上
: 个人页面里有任何关于需要预约的。这个递签是不是没有预约啊？我接下来是不是就等
: 着回国直奔中信交材料就行？
: 谢谢~

S*I2010-01-13 08:01

5 楼

取决于州

【在 t******9 的大作中提到】

: H4签证，没有ssn号码，报联邦税的时候同时递交w-7申请itin，
: 那么报州税的时候怎么办？
: 等itin下来后再报，
: 还是说能和联邦税一起递交到irs的办公室？
: 谢谢

u*a2010-01-13 08:01

6 楼

卡梅隆真的不傻...

【在 S***x 的大作中提到】

: d9故事好,场面嘛因为刚开始,所以场面不大
: avatar场面好,故事差
: 我觉得应该让cameron拍d9 2,前提是他不要看剧本,只管导特效

b*a2010-01-13 08:01

7 楼

F1?

【在 g********d 的大作中提到】

: 没有预约
: 一个星期签证就下来了

t*92010-01-13 08:01

8 楼

我在宾州PA,没找到相关的提示或说明。：（

【在 S**I 的大作中提到】

: 取决于州

S*x2010-01-13 08:01

9 楼

cameron的经典还是terminator,不过那是他做梦梦见的,也是很多人梦到的,
其他的嘛,都是他梦到的,不是别人梦到的,可惜他自己意识不到这一点

【在 u******a 的大作中提到】

: 卡梅隆真的不傻...

b*n2010-01-13 08:01

10 楼

是
是

【在 b*********a 的大作中提到】

: F1?

w*o2010-01-13 08:01

11 楼

d9>>>avatar overall
聽說avatar藍色貓人是cameron老母夢到的

f*t2010-01-13 08:01

12 楼

D9确实很好看
比avatar好看点

h*a2010-01-13 08:01

13 楼

问一下⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯啥是D9?

b*a2010-01-13 08:01

14 楼

district 9
南非电影

【在 h****a 的大作中提到】

: 问一下⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯啥是D9?

b*a2010-01-13 08:01

15 楼

d9 故事也就凑合

J*e2010-01-13 08:01

16 楼

D9的确很好看，但是剧情的HOLE太多，完全经不起推敲。

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

17 楼

d9我也不明白为什么这么多人追捧。

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: d9 故事也就凑合

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

18 楼

另外，我还非常不理解那些说Avatar没情节，然后却把Star trek排在Avatar前面的。Star trek有情节？

S*Y2010-01-13 08:01

19 楼

至少比avatar有

。Star trek有情节？

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 另外，我还非常不理解那些说Avatar没情节，然后却把Star trek排在Avatar前面的。Star trek有情节？

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

20 楼

aglee. My no.2 movie of 2009.

【在 S****Y 的大作中提到】

: 至少比avatar有
:
: 。Star trek有情节？

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

21 楼

没觉得.Star trek这种情节太程式化了.
而且这个电影科幻角度的问题比Avatar多太多了.
就这样还有人说Avatar算不上科幻.眼光太有问题了.

【在 S****Y 的大作中提到】

: 至少比avatar有
:
: 。Star trek有情节？

S*Y2010-01-13 08:01

22 楼

avatar看完preview就知道结果了还算有情节？那块你没预料到的？

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 没觉得.Star trek这种情节太程式化了.
: 而且这个电影科幻角度的问题比Avatar多太多了.
: 就这样还有人说Avatar算不上科幻.眼光太有问题了.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

23 楼

Let me guess. No. 1是D9吧.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: aglee. My no.2 movie of 2009.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

24 楼

star trek我觉得预料都没啥可预料的.

【在 S****Y 的大作中提到】

: avatar看完preview就知道结果了还算有情节？那块你没预料到的？

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

25 楼

"UP".
D9 is No.5, right behind Avatar.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Let me guess. No. 1是D9吧.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

26 楼

up对于我来说算ok.但是在动画片里不算top.近年的动画片感觉bolt不错.其他的都没太
大感觉.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: "UP".
: D9 is No.5, right behind Avatar.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

27 楼

Up and Wall-E was the only two movies that I gave 100% since
2001, hehe.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: up对于我来说算ok.但是在动画片里不算top.近年的动画片感觉bolt不错.其他的都没太
: 大感觉.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

28 楼

up开头我比较喜欢.后来就没感觉了.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Up and Wall-E was the only two movies that I gave 100% since
: 2001, hehe.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

29 楼

Its story is more compact than Avatar. It involves the stories
of two main roles, one of which had two ages. It also involves
at least 2-3 important supporting roles.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: star trek我觉得预料都没啥可预料的.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

30 楼

star trek时间跨度比较大.avatar就几个月的时间.这个意义上是compact.
至于情节,就是太空作战,其他的份量都很轻.这就是为什么我说没啥情节可预料.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Its story is more compact than Avatar. It involves the stories
: of two main roles, one of which had two ages. It also involves
: at least 2-3 important supporting roles.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

31 楼

It's usually these consolidations of time and space that please
the audience and show the ability of story telling of the
director.
Cameron is the top guy at creating theatrical experience, but
Avatar does appear slower than Star Trek.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: star trek时间跨度比较大.avatar就几个月的时间.这个意义上是compact.
: 至于情节,就是太空作战,其他的份量都很轻.这就是为什么我说没啥情节可预料.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

32 楼

并不是说时间跨度长就是故事讲得好.时间跨度短就slow.故事讲的好坏关键是能不能让
故事情节吸引观众.Avatar故事情节很吸引人.不承认这一点就是鸵鸟.我看star trek只
有在企业号出场之前还感觉情节吸引人.之后就都是俗套了.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: It's usually these consolidations of time and space that please
: the audience and show the ability of story telling of the
: director.
: Cameron is the top guy at creating theatrical experience, but
: Avatar does appear slower than Star Trek.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

33 楼

I admit Star Trek didn't have a perfect ending, for which I
only gave it 95%. But in Avatar there are scenes that were
majorly supported by the visual effect (i.e., would have been
a little less attractive without the effects).
Overall both are very solid movies. 95% and 94% are among the
top scores that I gave to movies.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 并不是说时间跨度长就是故事讲得好.时间跨度短就slow.故事讲的好坏关键是能不能让
: 故事情节吸引观众.Avatar故事情节很吸引人.不承认这一点就是鸵鸟.我看star trek只
: 有在企业号出场之前还感觉情节吸引人.之后就都是俗套了.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

34 楼

Avatar的effect是手段,而不是目的.正是因为有好的effect所以能更好地感染观众.许
多人说Avatar就是靠effect.这个绝对是错误的.universal studio里面比avatar好的
effect很多.但是这些根Avatar的感受完全不一样的.
Star trek同样需要effect.没有effect同样没啥看头.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: I admit Star Trek didn't have a perfect ending, for which I
: only gave it 95%. But in Avatar there are scenes that were
: majorly supported by the visual effect (i.e., would have been
: a little less attractive without the effects).
: Overall both are very solid movies. 95% and 94% are among the
: top scores that I gave to movies.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

35 楼

Star Trek is a $150m budget movie. It's not at the same level as
Avatar.
I admit visual effect does have some weight, for which reason I
only gave D9 93%. Some of the scenes look cheap, hehe.
Again, all I have said previously was to point out that in my own
opinion, set all visual effect aside, Star Trek's story is more
attractive than Avatar's story. The gap is more than 1% since I've
already given bonus for Avatar's spectacular imagination in
creating an alien world.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Avatar的effect是手段,而不是目的.正是因为有好的effect所以能更好地感染观众.许
: 多人说Avatar就是靠effect.这个绝对是错误的.universal studio里面比avatar好的
: effect很多.但是这些根Avatar的感受完全不一样的.
: Star trek同样需要effect.没有effect同样没啥看头.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

36 楼

如果没有特技的话,star trek就是total crap.但是Avatar还至少是与狼共舞.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Star Trek is a $150m budget movie. It's not at the same level as
: Avatar.
: I admit visual effect does have some weight, for which reason I
: only gave D9 93%. Some of the scenes look cheap, hehe.
: Again, all I have said previously was to point out that in my own
: opinion, set all visual effect aside, Star Trek's story is more
: attractive than Avatar's story. The gap is more than 1% since I've
: already given bonus for Avatar's spectacular imagination in
: creating an alien world.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

37 楼

So we have disagreement then.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 如果没有特技的话,star trek就是total crap.但是Avatar还至少是与狼共舞.

v32010-01-13 08:01

38 楼

你在电影版很喜欢go to extreme啊。对于你不感冒的电影没有必要贬到一文不值吧，
尤其是对大众公认的好片子。不明白口味是多种的，跟那些把avatar贬到一文不值的
有什么区别？

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 如果没有特技的话,star trek就是total crap.但是Avatar还至少是与狼共舞.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

39 楼

我比较喜欢电影情节围绕人展开的.讲人和人之间的故事.star trek后来就是战斗.
其实特技主打的电影我现在都看得很少.而且基本不到电影院看.就是因为这些电影情节
一般差.只看1块钱的redbox.当然情节主打得电影更不进电影院.所以我Avatar是我去年
唯一一个在电影院看得电影.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: So we have disagreement then.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

40 楼

可是我说的也是事实吧.没有特技的话star trek确实就没啥看头了.至少情节要大大丰
满一下才行吧.

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: 你在电影版很喜欢go to extreme啊。对于你不感冒的电影没有必要贬到一文不值吧，
: 尤其是对大众公认的好片子。不明白口味是多种的，跟那些把avatar贬到一文不值的
: 有什么区别？

v32010-01-13 08:01

41 楼

我觉得star trek 情节挺好，这个也是公认的(imdb, rottentomatoes, mitbbs, etc)
。你可以有你的opinion, 但主观的东西不要说成是事实，也不要把大众都说成是鸵鸟。

吧，

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 可是我说的也是事实吧.没有特技的话star trek确实就没啥看头了.至少情节要大大丰
: 满一下才行吧.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

42 楼

wiki网页上的：
"Although only two reviews were categorized by Metacritic as "yellow", or
mixed, a recurring critical complaint held that the franchise's tradition of
providing morally challenging stories had been neglected or even violated."
这不是说情节不好么？
谁要是说喜欢Star trek，不喜欢Avatar我没有任何意见。但是说Avatar没情节，Star
trek有情节就是搞笑了。

鸟。

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: 我觉得star trek 情节挺好，这个也是公认的(imdb, rottentomatoes, mitbbs, etc)
: 。你可以有你的opinion, 但主观的东西不要说成是事实，也不要把大众都说成是鸵鸟。
:
: 吧，

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

43 楼

some more from wiki:
"The AV Club gave the film a "green" B+, but asserted that it was "a
reconsideration of what constitutes Star Trek, one that deemphasizes heady
concepts and plainly stated humanist virtues in favor of breathless action
punctuated by bursts of emotion. It might not even be immediately
recognizable to veteran fans."[168] Roger Ebert agreed, lamenting in his 2.5
/4 star-review that "the Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play
with questions of science, ideals or philoso

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: wiki网页上的：
: "Although only two reviews were categorized by Metacritic as "yellow", or
: mixed, a recurring critical complaint held that the franchise's tradition of
: providing morally challenging stories had been neglected or even violated."
: 这不是说情节不好么？
: 谁要是说喜欢Star trek，不喜欢Avatar我没有任何意见。但是说Avatar没情节，Star
: trek有情节就是搞笑了。
:
: 鸟。

u*a2010-01-13 08:01

44 楼

我也觉的star trek不错, 虽然这东西fans向太强, 很大程度是在吃老本.
不过你看很有意思的一点就是, 这么傻逼的剧情因为是fans向电影好像也就没多少人骂
剧情土的, 因为大家只要看到三巨头一起出现就已经high了, 其实根本没人在乎剧情..
.对avatar这种原创背景的, 观众的口味就挑剔多了.

鸟。

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

v32010-01-13 08:01

45 楼

1. 这些都是个别评论。
2. 这些讲的更多是故事的立意和侧重点跟以前的不同，并不等同于说情节不足。
3. Action 跟 effect是两回事，Action是情节的一部分。
4. 这些评论也没有使用“crap"这一级别的词。
5. 关于avater情节的nagative的评论只有更多

.5
also
lost

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: some more from wiki:
: "The AV Club gave the film a "green" B+, but asserted that it was "a
: reconsideration of what constitutes Star Trek, one that deemphasizes heady
: concepts and plainly stated humanist virtues in favor of breathless action
: punctuated by bursts of emotion. It might not even be immediately
: recognizable to veteran fans."[168] Roger Ebert agreed, lamenting in his 2.5
: /4 star-review that "the Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play
: with questions of science, ideals or philoso

v32010-01-13 08:01

46 楼

这个是优势也是劣势。新的变化fans可能不认可。star trek系列拍了这么多部，大部分
的评价都一般。

..
etc)

【在 u******a 的大作中提到】

: 我也觉的star trek不错, 虽然这东西fans向太强, 很大程度是在吃老本.
: 不过你看很有意思的一点就是, 这么傻逼的剧情因为是fans向电影好像也就没多少人骂
: 剧情土的, 因为大家只要看到三巨头一起出现就已经high了, 其实根本没人在乎剧情..
: .对avatar这种原创背景的, 观众的口味就挑剔多了.
:
: 鸟。

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

47 楼

你去wiki看一下。这些评论显然不是个别评论。
而且Action应该是算在effect的。至少是跟effect类似的东西。Action是不能算情节的
。比如武打片如果武指差的话就差很多。
crap这种词在bbs里面很平常。我入乡随俗而已。
批评Avatar主要是主题不新鲜而以。很少有说Avatar情节不吸引人的。相反，说吸引人
的很多。

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: 1. 这些都是个别评论。
: 2. 这些讲的更多是故事的立意和侧重点跟以前的不同，并不等同于说情节不足。
: 3. Action 跟 effect是两回事，Action是情节的一部分。
: 4. 这些评论也没有使用“crap"这一级别的词。
: 5. 关于avater情节的nagative的评论只有更多
:
: .5
: also
: lost

v32010-01-13 08:01

48 楼

quote from rottentomatoes.com， based on 245 professional critic reviews.
Consensus: It might be more impressive on a technical level than as a piece
of storytelling
如果你很享受这种互相贬低成crap的讨论的话，我只能说happy入乡随俗。

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 你去wiki看一下。这些评论显然不是个别评论。
: 而且Action应该是算在effect的。至少是跟effect类似的东西。Action是不能算情节的
: 。比如武打片如果武指差的话就差很多。
: crap这种词在bbs里面很平常。我入乡随俗而已。
: 批评Avatar主要是主题不新鲜而以。很少有说Avatar情节不吸引人的。相反，说吸引人
: 的很多。

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

49 楼

不谈特效
avatar的编剧就是crap
没啥好说的
居然还能入选编剧工会的最佳原创剧本
太傻x了
有个好故事不意味着能讲好
与狼共舞的故事放到一个白痴嘴里讲出来
一样是crap
与狼共舞的节奏把握，人物塑造，都比avatar好一万倍
不能说storyline大致一样就差不多了
编剧和导演对storytelling都有很大的责任

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

50 楼

Avatar的成功技方面原因很大。但是这个技术是服务于更好的讲故事的。
JC本来也不是作家。Avatar的剧本感觉一般。不很吸引人。但是他可以用特技讲故事。在这点上他做的很好。
不过话说回来，看剧本肯定没有看小说有趣。不知道JC如果把Avatar写成小说会怎样。

piece

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: quote from rottentomatoes.com， based on 245 professional critic reviews.
: Consensus: It might be more impressive on a technical level than as a piece
: of storytelling
: 如果你很享受这种互相贬低成crap的讨论的话，我只能说happy入乡随俗。

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

51 楼

编剧和作家又是两回事
菲茨杰拉德牛叉吧
在好莱坞一败涂地就是明证
电影剧本有其非常独特的特性
这也是为啥小说改编成电影剧本要有非常厉害的功力
而电影剧本改变的小说一般都soso的原因

。在这点上他做的很好。

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Avatar的成功技方面原因很大。但是这个技术是服务于更好的讲故事的。
: JC本来也不是作家。Avatar的剧本感觉一般。不很吸引人。但是他可以用特技讲故事。在这点上他做的很好。
: 不过话说回来，看剧本肯定没有看小说有趣。不知道JC如果把Avatar写成小说会怎样。
:
: piece

v32010-01-13 08:01

52 楼

我觉得情节比较简单，但故事讲的还不错，算比较紧凑吸引人的了，这方面我认为是
more than adequate.

。在这点上他做的很好。

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

53 楼

你的逻辑自相矛盾了.好小说改编成好剧本比好剧本改编成好小说的多说明了有了好故
事,写出好本子相对容易一些(尽管也不是很容易).

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 编剧和作家又是两回事
: 菲茨杰拉德牛叉吧
: 在好莱坞一败涂地就是明证
: 电影剧本有其非常独特的特性
: 这也是为啥小说改编成电影剧本要有非常厉害的功力
: 而电影剧本改变的小说一般都soso的原因
:
: 。在这点上他做的很好。

s*t2010-01-13 08:01

54 楼

你说的不错，所以这才是为啥Avatar拥有一个好剧本的一个原因
电影剧本包括台词，场景设计甚至画面切换
这些都是电影语言
故事只是一个部分，Avatar能把一个很“烂”的故事讲到人人爱看就是个好剧本

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

55 楼

If you say that to Star Wars, I will total agree.
Star Trek franchise has its own position in history on a much lower
budget. Its story is a lot more solid and "logical" than Star Wars.
This is the first Star Trek movie that I watched, so I did not have
any bias.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 可是我说的也是事实吧.没有特技的话star trek确实就没啥看头了.至少情节要大大丰
: 满一下才行吧.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

56 楼

Star trek我说过了,开始的时候情节还可以.企业号出场之后就主要是action了.
而且star trek budget也不低.根transformers差不多.这样的电影绝对不敢说budget低的.这个budget比star wars高多了.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: If you say that to Star Wars, I will total agree.
: Star Trek franchise has its own position in history on a much lower
: budget. Its story is a lot more solid and "logical" than Star Wars.
: This is the first Star Trek movie that I watched, so I did not have
: any bias.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

57 楼

The Star Trek series's (1979-now) average budget was around 50m.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Star trek我说过了,开始的时候情节还可以.企业号出场之后就主要是action了.
: 而且star trek budget也不低.根transformers差不多.这样的电影绝对不敢说budget低的.这个budget比star wars高多了.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

58 楼

Star trek我就看了今年的电影.我说的也就是今年的电影.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: The Star Trek series's (1979-now) average budget was around 50m.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

59 楼

If you take a look at rottentomatoes, you will find Star Trek is at 94%
while Avatar is at 82%. Almost all negative review on Avatar was about
its story.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

60 楼

Star trek有文化因素在里面.Star trek的国内票房是国际票房的两倍. Avatar呢?
说白了, Star trek在rottentomatoes上面是way overrated.
IMDB上Star trek 8.2而Avatar8.7.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: If you take a look at rottentomatoes, you will find Star Trek is at 94%
: while Avatar is at 82%. Almost all negative review on Avatar was about
: its story.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

61 楼

另外,对Avatar情节的批评主要还是说根与狼共舞类似.并不是说情节不吸引人.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: If you take a look at rottentomatoes, you will find Star Trek is at 94%
: while Avatar is at 82%. Almost all negative review on Avatar was about
: its story.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

62 楼

Bad reviews copied from the first page (no 挑选). None of it was about
the 与狼共舞。
Alternates between a slurry of Franz Marc expressionism and the most
elaborate Thundercats episode ever made
But everything about the story, the setting, the dialog, and the parts that
aren't purely visual is awful.
Avatar is overlong, dramatically two-dimensional, smug and simplistic.
Avatar is a phenomenon you can't ignore, monumentally imposing and done with
extraordinary expertise ?but the same could be said of th

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 另外,对Avatar情节的批评主要还是说根与狼共舞类似.并不是说情节不吸引人.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

63 楼

Please respect the fact that Cameron got 100% on his Terminator (1984).

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Star trek有文化因素在里面.Star trek的国内票房是国际票房的两倍. Avatar呢?
: 说白了, Star trek在rottentomatoes上面是way overrated.
: IMDB上Star trek 8.2而Avatar8.7.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

64 楼

rottentomatoes is not the universe.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Please respect the fact that Cameron got 100% on his Terminator (1984).

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

65 楼

It does represent the mainstream media.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: rottentomatoes is not the universe.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

66 楼

另外,这个恰恰说明了Rottentomatoes的偏见.T再好也不至于100%.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Please respect the fact that Cameron got 100% on his Terminator (1984).

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

67 楼

If you constantly find yourself disagreeing with the mainstream media,
it usually means you yourself is not in the mainstream.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 另外,这个恰恰说明了Rottentomatoes的偏见.T再好也不至于100%.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

68 楼

IMDB scores float all the time, with newer movies often having higher
score. A 8.7 now for Avatar will probably mean 8.3-8.5 after 1 year.
That said, I do agree Avatar is more pleasing to the majority of
audiences.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 另外,这个恰恰说明了Rottentomatoes的偏见.T再好也不至于100%.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

69 楼

Star trek在rottentomatoes上比Avatar高很多.但是我敢肯定Star trek奥斯卡最佳影
片想都不用想.但是Avatar希望很大.你说奥斯卡mainstream不.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: It does represent the mainstream media.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

70 楼

Oscar is very mainstream. I personally don't think Avatar has any chance
at the screenplay award -- which is the award for the story.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Star trek在rottentomatoes上比Avatar高很多.但是我敢肯定Star trek奥斯卡最佳影
: 片想都不用想.但是Avatar希望很大.你说奥斯卡mainstream不.

v32010-01-13 08:01

71 楼

当然没有片子是perfect的。rottentomatoes的计算方法导致的这个，tomatometer是算个
数, 非0即1。其实那个average rating更能定量地说明问题。但这个tomatometer值个人
认为可以用来衡量一部电影各方面的balance. 只有各个方面都做得不错的电影才能被
喝不同茶的critics都认同。如果有某方面有所不足，就会被好这口的critic扔烂番茄，
即便有另一些方面超级出色。而打分制的rating或者popularity vote, 有相当出色的
方面却可以补偿不足的其他方面。

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 另外,这个恰恰说明了Rottentomatoes的偏见.T再好也不至于100%.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

72 楼

你不觉得这个奖Star trek的希望比Avatar小得多么?其实Star trek得这个奖的希望为0
.但是Avatar有希望.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Oscar is very mainstream. I personally don't think Avatar has any chance
: at the screenplay award -- which is the award for the story.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

73 楼

Of course Star Trek has no chance at all, just as "Up" (maybe Up has
a little chance). I personally think Avatar has equally zero chance, but
there is no way to compare, since none of them will be nominated.
Sci-fi movies are not favored by Oscar anyway.

为0

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: 你不觉得这个奖Star trek的希望比Avatar小得多么?其实Star trek得这个奖的希望为0
: .但是Avatar有希望.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

74 楼

If comparing average scores, Avatar (7.4) still lags Star Trek (8.1)
on rottentomatoes.

算个
个人
茄，

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: 当然没有片子是perfect的。rottentomatoes的计算方法导致的这个，tomatometer是算个
: 数, 非0即1。其实那个average rating更能定量地说明问题。但这个tomatometer值个人
: 认为可以用来衡量一部电影各方面的balance. 只有各个方面都做得不错的电影才能被
: 喝不同茶的critics都认同。如果有某方面有所不足，就会被好这口的critic扔烂番茄，
: 即便有另一些方面超级出色。而打分制的rating或者popularity vote, 有相当出色的
: 方面却可以补偿不足的其他方面。

v32010-01-13 08:01

75 楼

嗯，critics是比较特殊的群体，比较重“内涵”轻特效。
对我来说，overall enjoyment的程度还是avatar高过star trek一些。

能被
色的

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: If comparing average scores, Avatar (7.4) still lags Star Trek (8.1)
: on rottentomatoes.
:
: 算个
: 个人
: 茄，

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

76 楼

Just checked, none of the two got golden globe screenplay nomination.
Star Trek got an adapted screenplay nomination by Writers Guild.
Avatar was not nominated for original screenplay. However, it was
nominated in the feature film category (similar as best picture).

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Of course Star Trek has no chance at all, just as "Up" (maybe Up has
: a little chance). I personally think Avatar has equally zero chance, but
: there is no way to compare, since none of them will be nominated.
: Sci-fi movies are not favored by Oscar anyway.
:
: 为0

S*Y2010-01-13 08:01

77 楼

你就继续抬杠吧

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: star trek我觉得预料都没啥可预料的.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

78 楼

抬什么杠?
Star trek一看就知道最后肯定要跟那个大舰作战,并且胜利.不就这么点事么?有人就觉得这叫有情节.

【在 S****Y 的大作中提到】

: 你就继续抬杠吧

r*e2010-01-13 08:01

79 楼

有没有注意到其实烂番茄上的top critics Avatar(94%)高于 Star Trek(92%)？对比
较有影响力的影评人来说，这两个片子影评差别不大。奥斯卡Star Trek自然边都摸不着，这就跟Terminator 100%正评也没戏，泰坦尼克82%就拿的到一样。对行业的影响力上差太远。

影: 片想都不用想.但是Avatar希望很大.你说奥斯卡mainstream不.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Star trek在rottentomatoes上比Avatar高很多.但是我敢肯定Star trek奥斯卡最佳影
: 片想都不用想.但是Avatar希望很大.你说奥斯卡mainstream不.

r*e2010-01-13 08:01

80 楼

Avatar 明明提名了WGA的。前几页明明还有人说过了这个提名不可思议。
ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY
(500) Days of Summer, Written by Scott Neustadter & Michael H. Weber; Fox
Searchlight
Avatar, Written by James Cameron; 20th Century Fox
The Hangover, Written by Jon Lucas & Scott Moore; Warner Bros.
The Hurt Locker, Written by Mark Boal; Summit Entertainment
A Serious Man, Written by Joel Coen & Ethan Coen; Focus Features

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Just checked, none of the two got golden globe screenplay nomination.
: Star Trek got an adapted screenplay nomination by Writers Guild.
: Avatar was not nominated for original screenplay. However, it was
: nominated in the feature film category (similar as best picture).

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

81 楼

我说的
这个提名就是不可思议，莫名其妙

【在 r***e 的大作中提到】

: Avatar 明明提名了WGA的。前几页明明还有人说过了这个提名不可思议。
: ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY
: (500) Days of Summer, Written by Scott Neustadter & Michael H. Weber; Fox
: Searchlight
: Avatar, Written by James Cameron; 20th Century Fox
: The Hangover, Written by Jon Lucas & Scott Moore; Warner Bros.
: The Hurt Locker, Written by Mark Boal; Summit Entertainment
: A Serious Man, Written by Joel Coen & Ethan Coen; Focus Features

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

82 楼

"不可思议，莫名其妙"? Because so many people like it?

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 我说的
: 这个提名就是不可思议，莫名其妙

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

83 楼

个人观点而已
觉得剧本没好到值得一个编剧工会的原创编剧提名的地步

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: "不可思议，莫名其妙"? Because so many people like it?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

84 楼

Since it's nominated, there might be the chance that there's something good
about it. Especially when consider the fact that so many people like it.

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 个人观点而已
: 觉得剧本没好到值得一个编剧工会的原创编剧提名的地步

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

85 楼

那么多人爱avatar恐怕爱的不是剧本
看看多少人说看avatar2d就跟没看一样就知道了
被提名不一定就是实至名归
黄金罗盘还能战胜TF拿奥斯卡最佳特效奖
普通人还能战胜愤怒的公牛拿奥斯卡最佳影片
只能说编剧工会提名太趋炎附势了。。。

good

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Since it's nominated, there might be the chance that there's something good
: about it. Especially when consider the fact that so many people like it.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

86 楼

The script is part of the movie, and it's responsible for the success of the movie. I'm really tied of people claim Avatar only has effects.
There are many people who claimed to slept through Avatar, that doesn't mean
anything. Believe me, if there were no 3D, if Avatar was only 2D, it's still
going to be liked. Actually, I'm waiting for the 2D DVD to come out and see it again.

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 那么多人爱avatar恐怕爱的不是剧本
: 看看多少人说看avatar2d就跟没看一样就知道了
: 被提名不一定就是实至名归
: 黄金罗盘还能战胜TF拿奥斯卡最佳特效奖
: 普通人还能战胜愤怒的公牛拿奥斯卡最佳影片
: 只能说编剧工会提名太趋炎附势了。。。
:
: good

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

87 楼

我没说avatar只有特效，而且剧本也确实是组成电影的一部分
可是编剧工会就是要把剧本拿出来仔细研究讨论的
而avatar的剧本水平实在普通（我没批评这剧本差）
没见得比今年的其他大片好多少
非常同意最后一句，即使只有2d的，这还是一部好电影
一定还是有很多人喜欢看
不过恐怕就没有现在这么多人推崇为划时代的神作了吧

the movie. I'm really tied of people claim Avatar only has effects.
mean
still

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: The script is part of the movie, and it's responsible for the success of the movie. I'm really tied of people claim Avatar only has effects.
: There are many people who claimed to slept through Avatar, that doesn't mean
: anything. Believe me, if there were no 3D, if Avatar was only 2D, it's still
: going to be liked. Actually, I'm waiting for the 2D DVD to come out and see it again.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

88 楼

Have you read the script of other movies?
Actually, have you even read the script of Avatar?

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 我没说avatar只有特效，而且剧本也确实是组成电影的一部分
: 可是编剧工会就是要把剧本拿出来仔细研究讨论的
: 而avatar的剧本水平实在普通（我没批评这剧本差）
: 没见得比今年的其他大片好多少
: 非常同意最后一句，即使只有2d的，这还是一部好电影
: 一定还是有很多人喜欢看
: 不过恐怕就没有现在这么多人推崇为划时代的神作了吧
:
: the movie. I'm really tied of people claim Avatar only has effects.
: mean

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

89 楼

末有。。。
因为好莱坞颁奖从来都不考虑分镜头剧本
所以我只是从电影剧情发展，场景和对白来看地
请指导一下还有啥可以从剧本里读出来的

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Have you read the script of other movies?
: Actually, have you even read the script of Avatar?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

90 楼

So, basically, you are saying that "电影剧情发展，场景和对白" has nothing to
do with Avatar's success?

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 末有。。。
: 因为好莱坞颁奖从来都不考虑分镜头剧本
: 所以我只是从电影剧情发展，场景和对白来看地
: 请指导一下还有啥可以从剧本里读出来的

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

91 楼

我个人认为没有
从这个版上的发言来看
也没有
没有一片帖子称赞avatar的故事多么原创
对白多么精彩
情节多么曲折
剧本多么精妙

to

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: So, basically, you are saying that "电影剧情发展，场景和对白" has nothing to
: do with Avatar's success?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

92 楼

This is what I talked about when I say "I'm tied of people saying Avatar only has effects".

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 我个人认为没有
: 从这个版上的发言来看
: 也没有
: 没有一片帖子称赞avatar的故事多么原创
: 对白多么精彩
: 情节多么曲折
: 剧本多么精妙
:
: to

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

93 楼

也许我们可以争辩说avatar的特效太出色了
掩盖了他其他方面的优点
不过拿T2来讲
一样是特效非常出色
而且故事也讲的相当好
情节的发展，人物的塑造都相当出彩

only has effects".

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: This is what I talked about when I say "I'm tied of people saying Avatar only has effects".

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

94 楼

Actually, T2 is mostly an action movie. There is no denying this. Most of
the scene in T2 is shooting, fighting, chasing. Why people keep saying that
T2 has better story than Avatar is really beyond me. I don't like movies
like T2 and Alien(s) that much because I'm not a big fun of movie that
mostly consist of action. But still I can understand that this kind of
intense action movies click with some people. But when it comes to story, it
's really not that much as oppsed to action in the movie.

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 也许我们可以争辩说avatar的特效太出色了
: 掩盖了他其他方面的优点
: 不过拿T2来讲
: 一样是特效非常出色
: 而且故事也讲的相当好
: 情节的发展，人物的塑造都相当出彩
:
: only has effects".

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

95 楼

唔
也许是智者见智把
我看的是2D的版本，完全没有感情投入
也许是因为情节太好预测了，也许是这类故事确实不是我的茶
LD倒是在大树倒下的时候小哭了一下
跟另外的朋友聊，至少有2个人的观点是特效出众，故事线一般
看T2的时候看哭了
最后州长伸出大拇指的时候眼泪就止不住了

that
it

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Actually, T2 is mostly an action movie. There is no denying this. Most of
: the scene in T2 is shooting, fighting, chasing. Why people keep saying that
: T2 has better story than Avatar is really beyond me. I don't like movies
: like T2 and Alien(s) that much because I'm not a big fun of movie that
: mostly consist of action. But still I can understand that this kind of
: intense action movies click with some people. But when it comes to story, it
: 's really not that much as oppsed to action in the movie.

s*d2010-01-13 08:01

96 楼

that
确实 beyond you。

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

97 楼

Yes, educate me what are the new ideas in T2 that's not in T1? I find the
story in T2 very simillar to T1. Many people are in denial that they like T2
because of the liquid cristal robot.

【在 s**********d 的大作中提到】

:
: that
: 确实 beyond you。

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

98 楼

I always find that in an action movie, there's actually not much of plots to
预测. Because you know that the good guys got to win somehow. There's going
to be shooting, fighting, bullets flying here and there. Yeah you can't 预
测 which way the bullets flies. But that's mostly details. Believe me that
you can't 预测 details, even for Avatar.

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 唔
: 也许是智者见智把
: 我看的是2D的版本，完全没有感情投入
: 也许是因为情节太好预测了，也许是这类故事确实不是我的茶
: LD倒是在大树倒下的时候小哭了一下
: 跟另外的朋友聊，至少有2个人的观点是特效出众，故事线一般
: 看T2的时候看哭了
: 最后州长伸出大拇指的时候眼泪就止不住了
:
: that

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

99 楼

And also, you have at least 2 friends who don't think much about the story
of Avatar. But believe it or not, there are people who like the story a lot.
Avatar attracts so many people for a reason. Yes it failed to attract some
people like you and your 2 friends, just like no movie can please everyone.
That's pretty much predictable.

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

v32010-01-13 08:01

100 楼

这不是他和他的两个朋友，就说这个bbs上，基本就是you against the world.

lot.
some
.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: And also, you have at least 2 friends who don't think much about the story
: of Avatar. But believe it or not, there are people who like the story a lot.
: Avatar attracts so many people for a reason. Yes it failed to attract some
: people like you and your 2 friends, just like no movie can please everyone.
: That's pretty much predictable.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

101 楼

But having the world behind me, who care if it's me againts this bbs.
If you pay attention to how many threads in this BBS bashes Avatar, you will know how ridiculous some people on this bbs are.

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: 这不是他和他的两个朋友，就说这个bbs上，基本就是you against the world.
:
: lot.
: some
: .

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

102 楼

again, it's that theory, if you constantly disagree with the
mainstream, you are not the mainstream.
On MITBBS, you are not the mainstream. In the real world, it's
also not likely since you dislike T2 and Alien(s).

will know how ridiculous some people on this bbs are.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: But having the world behind me, who care if it's me againts this bbs.
: If you pay attention to how many threads in this BBS bashes Avatar, you will know how ridiculous some people on this bbs are.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

103 楼

T2 and Alien are clearly not as mainstream as Avatar.
Avatar has big chance of winning oscar best picture, T2 and Alien never had
any.
Talk about mainstream.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: again, it's that theory, if you constantly disagree with the
: mainstream, you are not the mainstream.
: On MITBBS, you are not the mainstream. In the real world, it's
: also not likely since you dislike T2 and Alien(s).
:
: will know how ridiculous some people on this bbs are.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

104 楼

This thread is majorly talking about the screenplay.

had

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: T2 and Alien are clearly not as mainstream as Avatar.
: Avatar has big chance of winning oscar best picture, T2 and Alien never had
: any.
: Talk about mainstream.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

105 楼

Exactly. Goldern globe nominated Avatar for this. Goldern globe is
mainstream or not?

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: This thread is majorly talking about the screenplay.
:
: had

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

106 楼

Come back to the the 3 scifi this year:
IMO D9 has obviously the best screenplay and should be nominated
by Oscar.
Neither Avatar or Star Trek will be nominated in Oscar screenplay
awards, in my prediction.

【在 S***x 的大作中提到】

: d9故事好,场面嘛因为刚开始,所以场面不大
: avatar场面好,故事差
: 我觉得应该让cameron拍d9 2,前提是他不要看剧本,只管导特效

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

107 楼

Last time I check, it did not get nominated for screenplay.
I'll check again.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Exactly. Goldern globe nominated Avatar for this. Goldern globe is
: mainstream or not?

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

108 楼

I checked again and it still didn't.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Last time I check, it did not get nominated for screenplay.
: I'll check again.

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

109 楼

金球没有提名Avatar的剧本：
Best Screenplay -- Motion Picture
Up in the Air
It's Complicated
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglorious Basterds
提名avatar最佳剧本的是编剧工会

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Exactly. Goldern globe nominated Avatar for this. Goldern globe is
: mainstream or not?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

110 楼

And 编剧工会 isn't mainstream I suppose.

【在 y****n 的大作中提到】

: 金球没有提名Avatar的剧本：
: Best Screenplay -- Motion Picture
: Up in the Air
: It's Complicated
: District 9
: The Hurt Locker
: Inglorious Basterds
: 提名avatar最佳剧本的是编剧工会

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

111 楼

编剧工会 also nominated Star Trek, which you don't like.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: And 编剧工会 isn't mainstream I suppose.

y*n2010-01-13 08:01

112 楼

编剧工会因为罢工脑子都罢坏了
不提也罢

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: And 编剧工会 isn't mainstream I suppose.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

113 楼

Use yituan's words "编剧工会因为罢工脑子都罢坏了"

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: 编剧工会 also nominated Star Trek, which you don't like.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

114 楼

By the way, did T2 got any nomination for it's amazing screenplay?

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Use yituan's words "编剧工会因为罢工脑子都罢坏了"

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

115 楼

Historically WGA does have less influence than Golden Globe.
So it's proper to say it's less mainstream.
Its winner though, used to be used as an indicator who will
win Oscar.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Use yituan's words "编剧工会因为罢工脑子都罢坏了"

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

116 楼

Let's get back to how we get into this mainstream sh**.
You said that I prefer Avatar over T2 and Alien on STORY showes that I'm not
mainstream.
So let's see. Avatar got a nomination for it's screenplay from WGA. Though
it's not as mainstream as Goldern and Oscar, it's still better than nothing
right? What did T2 get? What did Aliens get? If they got nothing, could it
be that they are not as mainstream as Avatar?

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Historically WGA does have less influence than Golden Globe.
: So it's proper to say it's less mainstream.
: Its winner though, used to be used as an indicator who will
: win Oscar.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

117 楼

If it's a question to me, then the answer is no. It was nominated
6 Oscar tech awards and won 4.
BTW I never claimed T2 had an amazing screenplay. Actually I
never watched the whole movie. But I know for fact this movie
was Cameron's milesstone (first movie over 200m).

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: By the way, did T2 got any nomination for it's amazing screenplay?

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

118 楼

To talk about this topic you have to explain Star Trek first.

not
nothing

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Let's get back to how we get into this mainstream sh**.
: You said that I prefer Avatar over T2 and Alien on STORY showes that I'm not
: mainstream.
: So let's see. Avatar got a nomination for it's screenplay from WGA. Though
: it's not as mainstream as Goldern and Oscar, it's still better than nothing
: right? What did T2 get? What did Aliens get? If they got nothing, could it
: be that they are not as mainstream as Avatar?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

119 楼

Didn't you specifically require that we talk about screenplay? So now tech
also count?

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: If it's a question to me, then the answer is no. It was nominated
: 6 Oscar tech awards and won 4.
: BTW I never claimed T2 had an amazing screenplay. Actually I
: never watched the whole movie. But I know for fact this movie
: was Cameron's milesstone (first movie over 200m).

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

120 楼

You need to be aware of one fact: in 1980s, WGA used to only
nominate 2 movies for best screenplay and 1 would win.
e.g., in 1980 (Alien year), the only 2 movies nominated were
The China Syndrome and Apocalypse Now.
Now they have 5 nominations.

not
nothing

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

121 楼

It doesn't count and I thought I didn't indicate that anywhere.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Didn't you specifically require that we talk about screenplay? So now tech
: also count?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

122 楼

Show me how this proves that Avatar is less mainstream than T2 and Aliens.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: You need to be aware of one fact: in 1980s, WGA used to only
: nominate 2 movies for best screenplay and 1 would win.
: e.g., in 1980 (Alien year), the only 2 movies nominated were
: The China Syndrome and Apocalypse Now.
: Now they have 5 nominations.
:
: not
: nothing

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

123 楼

More over. The mainstream clearly likes Avatar. Doesn't this prove that the
20% something critics, who bashed Avatar on rotten tomatoes, are not
mainstream?

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

124 楼

It doesn't prove that but it shows the possibility that
WGA nominations cannot be used as a reliable indicator as
the standard might have changed over the years.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Show me how this proves that Avatar is less mainstream than T2 and Aliens.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

125 楼

But still you haven't got any evidence of my nonmainstreamness right?

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: It doesn't prove that but it shows the possibility that
: WGA nominations cannot be used as a reliable indicator as
: the standard might have changed over the years.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

126 楼

The concept of debate on mainstream between you and me can be
mainly described as "favor Avatar's story over Star Trek's story",
in which case statically it's safe to say you are the minority
among the critics. (20% critics bashed Avatar while 6% bashed
Star Trek). Similar statements apply to T2 and Alien(s).

the

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: More over. The mainstream clearly likes Avatar. Doesn't this prove that the
: 20% something critics, who bashed Avatar on rotten tomatoes, are not
: mainstream?

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

127 楼

This is ridiculous.
As I mentioned, the 20% something critics bashing Avatar has to be
nonmainstream, because Avatar is clearly mainstream.
I don't think my bashing Star trek is any worse than those critics bashing
Avatar. So there is this one movie with tons of plot holes that I don't
particularly like, and all of a sudden, I'm not mainstream? It's not like I
really care about the so called mainstreamness. But it's just that you
sounded like it's such a bad thing, which pissed me.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: The concept of debate on mainstream between you and me can be
: mainly described as "favor Avatar's story over Star Trek's story",
: in which case statically it's safe to say you are the minority
: among the critics. (20% critics bashed Avatar while 6% bashed
: Star Trek). Similar statements apply to T2 and Alien(s).
:
: the

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

128 楼

I don't have evidence. Note when I make statements I used words
like "usually", "unlikely to be mainstream" etc.
I have mentioned multiple indicators such as MITBBS's favor,
rottentomatoes's favor etc.
Also seems you don't like D9 either, which is the only movie
that got Golden Globe screenplay nomination among the 3.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: But still you haven't got any evidence of my nonmainstreamness right?

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

129 楼

Please clarity why a critic (among the 20%) bashing Avatar "has
to be nonmainstream", while you bashing Star Trek should not be
nonmainstream. I am little bit lost on your definition of
mainstream.

I

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: This is ridiculous.
: As I mentioned, the 20% something critics bashing Avatar has to be
: nonmainstream, because Avatar is clearly mainstream.
: I don't think my bashing Star trek is any worse than those critics bashing
: Avatar. So there is this one movie with tons of plot holes that I don't
: particularly like, and all of a sudden, I'm not mainstream? It's not like I
: really care about the so called mainstreamness. But it's just that you
: sounded like it's such a bad thing, which pissed me.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

130 楼

Let's put it this way:
I don't need to like every single "mainstream" movie ok? I'm simply not that
eager to kiss some mainstream ass.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: I don't have evidence. Note when I make statements I used words
: like "usually", "unlikely to be mainstream" etc.
: I have mentioned multiple indicators such as MITBBS's favor,
: rottentomatoes's favor etc.
: Also seems you don't like D9 either, which is the only movie
: that got Golden Globe screenplay nomination among the 3.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

131 楼

the problem is if you dislike over 50% of them, it's hard to
justify that you are in the mainstream.

that

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: Let's put it this way:
: I don't need to like every single "mainstream" movie ok? I'm simply not that
: eager to kiss some mainstream ass.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

132 楼

I hate to mention it but you seriously need to sharpen your reading. I
clearly meant that if I'm not mainstream by bashing star trek, than those
critics bashing Avatar have to be also not mainstream. I feel much better
when I have a bunch of critics together with me in the nonmainstream
department.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Please clarity why a critic (among the 20%) bashing Avatar "has
: to be nonmainstream", while you bashing Star Trek should not be
: nonmainstream. I am little bit lost on your definition of
: mainstream.
:
: I

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

133 楼

I believe there are a lot of people who don't like 50% of good movies. There
are a lot of movies. I mean A LOT. There are people who don't spend much
time watching movies. And tell you what? I put my money on those people aren
't very concerned about their nonmainstreamness.
By the way, did you happen to notice that all the movies I bashed are action
movies? I'm simply not that impressed by movies that emphasize action too
much.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: the problem is if you dislike over 50% of them, it's hard to
: justify that you are in the mainstream.
:
: that

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

134 楼

Then we finally have an agreement on something. That's exactly
my point too. There is nothing wrong to be non-mainstream.
Movies are completely subjective matter and everybody has
his own opinion. I myself am non-mainstream in putting Star
Trek above Avatar overall.

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: I hate to mention it but you seriously need to sharpen your reading. I
: clearly meant that if I'm not mainstream by bashing star trek, than those
: critics bashing Avatar have to be also not mainstream. I feel much better
: when I have a bunch of critics together with me in the nonmainstream
: department.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

135 楼

Yeah that's completely fine. I can't imagine many people would like
all IMDB top 100 or rottentomatoes all 100% movies. Among my own
top 10 maybe 5 are not that hot.
Actually to be mainstream all the time would be very boring.

There
aren
action

【在 j***b 的大作中提到】

: I believe there are a lot of people who don't like 50% of good movies. There
: are a lot of movies. I mean A LOT. There are people who don't spend much
: time watching movies. And tell you what? I put my money on those people aren
: 't very concerned about their nonmainstreamness.
: By the way, did you happen to notice that all the movies I bashed are action
: movies? I'm simply not that impressed by movies that emphasize action too
: much.

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

136 楼

果然不出偶意料阿。

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Come back to the the 3 scifi this year:
: IMO D9 has obviously the best screenplay and should be nominated
: by Oscar.
: Neither Avatar or Star Trek will be nominated in Oscar screenplay
: awards, in my prediction.

l*e2010-01-13 08:01

137 楼

给你的失败赌局找补呀

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: 果然不出偶意料阿。

o*t2010-01-13 08:01

138 楼

膜拜一下

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: 果然不出偶意料阿。

b*e2010-01-13 08:01

139 楼

My top 1 of 2009: District 9
Avatar is the second

【在 S***x 的大作中提到】

: d9故事好,场面嘛因为刚开始,所以场面不大
: avatar场面好,故事差
: 我觉得应该让cameron拍d9 2,前提是他不要看剧本,只管导特效

C*e2010-01-13 08:01

140 楼

敢看了D9.肠子都悔青了。
看到版上有人说d9和avatar有一拼，由于我入了avatar教，就也看了d9.
看了以后俺吓坏了，外星人那么丑，场面那么破旧。不如avatar的音乐画面那么优美。
d9适合男生看，以后再也不相信版上的评论了。

C*r2010-01-13 08:01

141 楼

只适合WSN? 看来很黄很暴力.

【在 C******e 的大作中提到】

: 敢看了D9.肠子都悔青了。
: 看到版上有人说d9和avatar有一拼，由于我入了avatar教，就也看了d9.
: 看了以后俺吓坏了，外星人那么丑，场面那么破旧。不如avatar的音乐画面那么优美。
: d9适合男生看，以后再也不相信版上的评论了。

p*82010-01-13 08:01

142 楼

star trek公认的好是因为美国人有这个culture吧，他们从小看到大的，当然会很有感
情。
抛开主观因素，客观上这部片子本来就比D9差远了。

鸟。

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

p*82010-01-13 08:01

143 楼

因为其他更烂。
比更烂的没那么烂，不代表不烂。

部分

【在 v3 的大作中提到】

: 这个是优势也是劣势。新的变化fans可能不认可。star trek系列拍了这么多部，大部分
: 的评价都一般。
:
: ..
: etc)

z*n2010-01-13 08:01

144 楼

star trek在米国是 nerd 的代名词，呵呵
我们单位有两三个这种nerd
甚至研究里边某个民族的语言，甚至有人出过那个民族语言翻译的莎士比亚著作
很多nerds都津津乐道star trek里边的travia
和好多"old fashion“ "hardcore fan"一样，成天指责新的star trek如何辱没了原作
，如何回忆古代的star trek，却与此同时任何新的star trek都不错过，呵呵
就是一种nerd文化，没在这种文化下熏陶过的，很难体会到他们那种疯狂

【在 p*******8 的大作中提到】

: star trek公认的好是因为美国人有这个culture吧，他们从小看到大的，当然会很有感
: 情。
: 抛开主观因素，客观上这部片子本来就比D9差远了。
:
: 鸟。

p*82010-01-13 08:01

145 楼

太疯狂了。

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: star trek在米国是 nerd 的代名词，呵呵
: 我们单位有两三个这种nerd
: 甚至研究里边某个民族的语言，甚至有人出过那个民族语言翻译的莎士比亚著作
: 很多nerds都津津乐道star trek里边的travia
: 和好多"old fashion“ "hardcore fan"一样，成天指责新的star trek如何辱没了原作
: ，如何回忆古代的star trek，却与此同时任何新的star trek都不错过，呵呵
: 就是一种nerd文化，没在这种文化下熏陶过的，很难体会到他们那种疯狂

p*82010-01-13 08:01

146 楼

太疯狂了。

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

147 楼

Will LOTR be the new Star Trek 20 years from now?

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

z*n2010-01-13 08:01

148 楼

感觉不会。现在的娱乐越来越多元化了，整个世界的文化随着网络，3g也越来越快餐了
，很难形成一个人群对某个作品这么执着了

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: Will LOTR be the new Star Trek 20 years from now?

z*n2010-01-13 08:01

149 楼

btw，给大家贴个amazon的连接，就是有人用klingon language翻译的哈拇累特，哈哈
哈哈
http://www.amazon.com/Klingon-Hamlet-Lawrence-Schoen/dp/0671035789
看不懂的可以翻字典
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/067174559X/$%7B0%7D

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 感觉不会。现在的娱乐越来越多元化了，整个世界的文化随着网络，3g也越来越快餐了
: ，很难形成一个人群对某个作品这么执着了

s*n2010-01-13 08:01

150 楼

Avatar的剧本不是什么特别出色的剧本，只是serviceable,这并不妨碍它是一部伟大的
作品。

p*s2010-01-13 08:01

151 楼

After 10 years, nobody cares about D9.
The box office is one point.
Another point is that Avatar creates some revolutionary technologies to
shoot Sci-Fi movies. D9 does not.
A movie is not only a show, but also the underlying approach to make the
show. Obviously Avatar beats D9 in the underlying approach to make the
show.
The revolution I think is: Cameron created a new world from somewhat a scratch line to shoot the Avatar movie. This was only done by Lucas in Starwar before, but Starwar i

z*n2010-01-13 08:01

152 楼

想不通d9和avatar有啥好比的
一个是low budget scifi
一个是大制作大片
压根就没法比的

【在 p****s 的大作中提到】

: After 10 years, nobody cares about D9.
: The box office is one point.
: Another point is that Avatar creates some revolutionary technologies to
: shoot Sci-Fi movies. D9 does not.
: A movie is not only a show, but also the underlying approach to make the
: show. Obviously Avatar beats D9 in the underlying approach to make the
: show.
: The revolution I think is: Cameron created a new world from somewhat a scratch line to shoot the Avatar movie. This was only done by Lucas in Starwar before, but Starwar i

K*D2010-01-13 08:01

153 楼

//nod, d9 should be compared with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 想不通d9和avatar有啥好比的
: 一个是low budget scifi
: 一个是大制作大片
: 压根就没法比的

m*p2010-01-13 08:01

154 楼

come on. HGTTG was a great fiction and a terrible movie.
d9 is a great movie, period.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: //nod, d9 should be compared with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

j*b2010-01-13 08:01

155 楼

Story wise, d9 doesn't even come close to the Guide.
I can hardly think of any part of d9 that has the imagination comparible to the Guide.

【在 K****D 的大作中提到】

: //nod, d9 should be compared with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.