海归报税的问题 - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

1 楼

关于double taxation，做了一些调查。但是还不是很清楚。希望过来人指点。
例如，绿卡海归，年薪15万刀，国内的税率大概是35%-45%之间（高于美国的税率），
那是否还需缴美国税？
查到两种说法
1.不需要，因为中国税高于美国（只有中国缴税低于美国时才要补差）。
2.需要，每年大概有9-10万刀的 exemption。如果老婆不工作，联合报税会否有18-20
万刀的exemption？
是不是美国绿卡、公民全球征税征的是非tax的部分，比如说国内的房产增值税，银行
利息税（国内低税或无税）等等，如果是这样的话，可否把房产、银行户头放在父母
名下？
还有就是如果是公民海归和绿卡海归在缴税上是否有差别？
先谢过！

w*y2017-01-25 08:01

2 楼

我的理解是超过9万刀那部分要double tax, 不一定对

20

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: 关于double taxation，做了一些调查。但是还不是很清楚。希望过来人指点。
: 例如，绿卡海归，年薪15万刀，国内的税率大概是35%-45%之间（高于美国的税率），
: 那是否还需缴美国税？
: 查到两种说法
: 1.不需要，因为中国税高于美国（只有中国缴税低于美国时才要补差）。
: 2.需要，每年大概有9-10万刀的 exemption。如果老婆不工作，联合报税会否有18-20
: 万刀的exemption？
: 是不是美国绿卡、公民全球征税征的是非tax的部分，比如说国内的房产增值税，银行
: 利息税（国内低税或无税）等等，如果是这样的话，可否把房产、银行户头放在父母
: 名下？

w*y2017-01-25 08:01

3 楼

另外房产增值税是什么鬼？你想多了

20

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: 关于double taxation，做了一些调查。但是还不是很清楚。希望过来人指点。
: 例如，绿卡海归，年薪15万刀，国内的税率大概是35%-45%之间（高于美国的税率），
: 那是否还需缴美国税？
: 查到两种说法
: 1.不需要，因为中国税高于美国（只有中国缴税低于美国时才要补差）。
: 2.需要，每年大概有9-10万刀的 exemption。如果老婆不工作，联合报税会否有18-20
: 万刀的exemption？
: 是不是美国绿卡、公民全球征税征的是非tax的部分，比如说国内的房产增值税，银行
: 利息税（国内低税或无税）等等，如果是这样的话，可否把房产、银行户头放在父母
: 名下？

s*e2017-01-25 08:01

4 楼

1

l*g2017-01-25 08:01

5 楼

no difference between citizen and permanent resident in terms of tax. you
can only claim around 90k exemption if you spend less than 30 days in US per
tax year and it is per family so you won't get double exemption there. In
theory, US collects tax on every cents of your income, I mean every cent!! I
was in same situation before and hired CPA to handle it, it was big pain in
the ass

z*i2017-01-25 08:01

6 楼

20

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: 关于double taxation，做了一些调查。但是还不是很清楚。希望过来人指点。
: 例如，绿卡海归，年薪15万刀，国内的税率大概是35%-45%之间（高于美国的税率），
: 那是否还需缴美国税？
: 查到两种说法
: 1.不需要，因为中国税高于美国（只有中国缴税低于美国时才要补差）。
: 2.需要，每年大概有9-10万刀的 exemption。如果老婆不工作，联合报税会否有18-20
: 万刀的exemption？
: 是不是美国绿卡、公民全球征税征的是非tax的部分，比如说国内的房产增值税，银行
: 利息税（国内低税或无税）等等，如果是这样的话，可否把房产、银行户头放在父母
: 名下？

l*g2017-01-25 08:01

7 楼

foreign tax paid could be used as tax credit so if you really pay more tax
to Chinese government based on 35-45% rate, you don't need to pay US tax but
you still need to file your tax return to show that you foreign tax rate is
higher than US tax rate

z*i2017-01-25 08:01

8 楼

我建议楼主还是找个美国税务师咨询一下。我原来也是自己报税，后来嫌麻烦，雇
了税务师帮我报。才发现我前几年的税表都弄错了，还多交了税。

W*T2017-01-25 08:01

9 楼

弱弱的问一句，如果不报会怎么样？
马上要归了，也是绿卡，工作虽然还没找，但是收入估计最多只有楼主1/3

A*o2017-01-25 08:01

10 楼

1. 无论海归与否，每年都要报税，除非收入低于一定条件，IRS会有说明
2. 2016 tax year foreign income exclusion是102k左右，条件二选一：一个自然年
都长居国外，在海外建立tax home（可以偶尔回美）；连续12个月海外超过330天（即
不能回美超过35天）。建议找CPA咨询，或者查询BFR和PPT。可能会影响绿卡，建议咨
询移民律师。
3. 中国税高的话可以选择foreign tax credit来抵美国个税，超过美国个税部分可以
carryover。如果选择exclusion，那么exclude的部分不能take credit，即不能double
benefit。
4. Foreign income exclusion（不是exemption）是夫妻分开计算，不存在double
5. 全球征税按照在美国征税处理，好像没有房产增值税（不清楚什么是国内房产增值
税），利息税是按照income来征。
6. 海外账户超过10k需要上报

20

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: 关于double taxation，做了一些调查。但是还不是很清楚。希望过来人指点。
: 例如，绿卡海归，年薪15万刀，国内的税率大概是35%-45%之间（高于美国的税率），
: 那是否还需缴美国税？
: 查到两种说法
: 1.不需要，因为中国税高于美国（只有中国缴税低于美国时才要补差）。
: 2.需要，每年大概有9-10万刀的 exemption。如果老婆不工作，联合报税会否有18-20
: 万刀的exemption？
: 是不是美国绿卡、公民全球征税征的是非tax的部分，比如说国内的房产增值税，银行
: 利息税（国内低税或无税）等等，如果是这样的话，可否把房产、银行户头放在父母
: 名下？

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

11 楼

Did you hire CPA in the US or China? Any recommendations? 可以私信吗？

: no difference between citizen and permanent resident in terms of tax.
you

: can only claim around 90k exemption if you spend less than 30 days in
US per

: tax year and it is per family so you won't get double exemption there
. In

: theory, US collects tax on every cents of your income, I mean every
cent!! I

: was in same situation before and hired CPA to handle it, it was big
pain in

: the ass

【在 l******g 的大作中提到】

: foreign tax paid could be used as tax credit so if you really pay more tax
: to Chinese government based on 35-45% rate, you don't need to pay US tax but
: you still need to file your tax return to show that you foreign tax rate is
: higher than US tax rate

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

12 楼

感谢大牛指点！
所以如果是公民归了的话在国内高年薪高税还可能拿到IRS 的tax credit 对吗？
难怪公司高层都是公民归的。

: 1. 无论海归与否，每年都要报税，除非收入低于一定条件，IRS会有说明

: 2. 2016 tax year foreign income exclusion是102k左右，条件二选一：一个
自然年

: 都长居国外，在海外建立tax home（可以偶尔回美）；连续12个月海外超过330
天（即

: 不能回美超过35天）。建议找CPA咨询，或者查询BFR和PPT。可能会影响绿卡，
建议咨

: 询移民律师。

: 3. 中国税高的话可以选择foreign tax credit来抵美国个税，超过美国个税部
分可以

: carryover。如果选择exclusion，那么exclude的部分不能take credit，即不能
double

: benefit。

: 4. Foreign income exclusion（不是exemption）是夫妻分开计算，不存在
double

: 5. 全球征税按照在美国征税处理，好像没有房产增值税（不清楚什么是国内房
产增值

【在 A********o 的大作中提到】

: 1. 无论海归与否，每年都要报税，除非收入低于一定条件，IRS会有说明
: 2. 2016 tax year foreign income exclusion是102k左右，条件二选一：一个自然年
: 都长居国外，在海外建立tax home（可以偶尔回美）；连续12个月海外超过330天（即
: 不能回美超过35天）。建议找CPA咨询，或者查询BFR和PPT。可能会影响绿卡，建议咨
: 询移民律师。
: 3. 中国税高的话可以选择foreign tax credit来抵美国个税，超过美国个税部分可以
: carryover。如果选择exclusion，那么exclude的部分不能take credit，即不能double
: benefit。
: 4. Foreign income exclusion（不是exemption）是夫妻分开计算，不存在double
: 5. 全球征税按照在美国征税处理，好像没有房产增值税（不清楚什么是国内房产增值

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

13 楼

大概是哪边税高交齐就好对吗？
15w刀大概一共要交多少 40%左右？

: 我建议楼主还是找个美国税务师咨询一下。我原来也是自己报税，后来嫌麻烦
，雇

: 了税务师帮我报。才发现我前几年的税表都弄错了，还多交了税。

【在 z********i 的大作中提到】

: 我建议楼主还是找个美国税务师咨询一下。我原来也是自己报税，后来嫌麻烦，雇
: 了税务师帮我报。才发现我前几年的税表都弄错了，还多交了税。

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

14 楼

Thanks! Can I get tax credits from IRS as well?
Chinese tax is darn too high!

: foreign tax paid could be used as tax credit so if you really pay more
tax

: to Chinese government based on 35-45% rate, you don't need to pay US
tax but

: you still need to file your tax return to show that you foreign tax
rate is

: higher than US tax rate

【在 l******g 的大作中提到】

: foreign tax paid could be used as tax credit so if you really pay more tax
: to Chinese government based on 35-45% rate, you don't need to pay US tax but
: you still need to file your tax return to show that you foreign tax rate is
: higher than US tax rate

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

15 楼

我觉得如果想保持身份还是要报税吧。一旦入境被海关刁难也可以以此argue吧。
我担心的是一多半的收入去交两边的税了。

: 弱弱的问一句，如果不报会怎么样？

: 马上要归了，也是绿卡，工作虽然还没找，但是收入估计最多只有楼主1/3

【在 W****T 的大作中提到】

: 弱弱的问一句，如果不报会怎么样？
: 马上要归了，也是绿卡，工作虽然还没找，但是收入估计最多只有楼主1/3

r*i2017-01-25 08:01

16 楼

What if I spend more than 30 days in us?
I was thinking to thin down my assets in China by transferring money to my
parents bank account so that I can be ripped less by IRS.

: no difference between citizen and permanent resident in terms of tax.
you

: can only claim around 90k exemption if you spend less than 30 days in
US per

: tax year and it is per family so you won't get double exemption there
. In

: theory, US collects tax on every cents of your income, I mean every
cent!! I

: was in same situation before and hired CPA to handle it, it was big
pain in

: the ass

【在 l******g 的大作中提到】

: foreign tax paid could be used as tax credit so if you really pay more tax
: to Chinese government based on 35-45% rate, you don't need to pay US tax but
: you still need to file your tax return to show that you foreign tax rate is
: higher than US tax rate

C*e2017-01-25 08:01

17 楼

No, you can't get tax credit if you only pay china tax

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: Thanks! Can I get tax credits from IRS as well?
: Chinese tax is darn too high!
:
:
: foreign tax paid could be used as tax credit so if you really pay more
: tax
:
: to Chinese government based on 35-45% rate, you don't need to pay US
: tax but
:
: you still need to file your tax return to show that you foreign tax
: rate is
:
: higher than US tax rate

z*i2017-01-25 08:01

18 楼

我私信你啦。

.
in
there

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: Did you hire CPA in the US or China? Any recommendations? 可以私信吗？
:
:
: no difference between citizen and permanent resident in terms of tax.
: you
:
: can only claim around 90k exemption if you spend less than 30 days in
: US per
:
: tax year and it is per family so you won't get double exemption there
: . In
:
: theory, US collects tax on every cents of your income, I mean every
: cent!! I

n*i2017-01-25 08:01

19 楼

Foreign tax is very complex. Foreign tax credit, foreign tax exemption,
housing credit, housing exemption, carry-over, how to avoid double tax, FBAR
filing...
I have been there before. Either you study these rules yourself very
thoroughly (which I did), or you hire an accountant (I did once and he made
mistakes, fired him), or you risk paying more taxes or less and be audited
later. Foreign tax filers are high risk pool for audits.There is no easy way
out. Posting a question here will not get you the full answer. You will get
50% right because we don't know 100% of your situation, and you don't know
what we need to know.
If you want to save money, you have to work for it, or pay for it. No free
lunch.

20

【在 r**********i 的大作中提到】

: 关于double taxation，做了一些调查。但是还不是很清楚。希望过来人指点。
: 例如，绿卡海归，年薪15万刀，国内的税率大概是35%-45%之间（高于美国的税率），
: 那是否还需缴美国税？
: 查到两种说法
: 1.不需要，因为中国税高于美国（只有中国缴税低于美国时才要补差）。
: 2.需要，每年大概有9-10万刀的 exemption。如果老婆不工作，联合报税会否有18-20
: 万刀的exemption？
: 是不是美国绿卡、公民全球征税征的是非tax的部分，比如说国内的房产增值税，银行
: 利息税（国内低税或无税）等等，如果是这样的话，可否把房产、银行户头放在父母
: 名下？

z*i2017-01-25 08:01

20 楼

Totally agree.
Particularly, the IRS code had changed substantially in 2016. I don't think
that any non-tax professional can figure this (FTC) out clearly.
He needs to hire an accountant who specializes in Mobility/Expat taxes. A
regular tax accountant (like H&R block) won't help.

FBAR
made
way
get
know

【在 n****i 的大作中提到】

: Foreign tax is very complex. Foreign tax credit, foreign tax exemption,
: housing credit, housing exemption, carry-over, how to avoid double tax, FBAR
: filing...
: I have been there before. Either you study these rules yourself very
: thoroughly (which I did), or you hire an accountant (I did once and he made
: mistakes, fired him), or you risk paying more taxes or less and be audited
: later. Foreign tax filers are high risk pool for audits.There is no easy way
: out. Posting a question here will not get you the full answer. You will get
: 50% right because we don't know 100% of your situation, and you don't know
: what we need to know.

n*i2017-01-25 08:01

21 楼

I will tell you the most likely end result: If you are paying up to 40%
Chinese margin tax already, most likely you owe no tax to USA, at least at
the Federal level. If you also file state taxes, different states have
different rules on foreign tax treatment.
But if you don't do your tax correctly, you may find yourself paying Federal
tax. Again, there are many factors that contribute to this $0 US tax. You
just have to know them and how to use them. All 100% legal but just complex.

FBAR
made
way
get
know

【在 n****i 的大作中提到】

: Foreign tax is very complex. Foreign tax credit, foreign tax exemption,
: housing credit, housing exemption, carry-over, how to avoid double tax, FBAR
: filing...
: I have been there before. Either you study these rules yourself very
: thoroughly (which I did), or you hire an accountant (I did once and he made
: mistakes, fired him), or you risk paying more taxes or less and be audited
: later. Foreign tax filers are high risk pool for audits.There is no easy way
: out. Posting a question here will not get you the full answer. You will get
: 50% right because we don't know 100% of your situation, and you don't know
: what we need to know.

A*o2017-01-25 08:01

22 楼

The excess of foreign tax credit can be carry forward at most 10 years to
tax years when you have US income tax, or carry back 1 year. It will expire
if you don't owe IRS.
Executives may have other oversea income subject to US tax but not China tax
, such as investment in Japan. So they may need to pay more US tax. It
depends on your total taxable income subject to US tax.

A*o2017-01-25 08:01

23 楼

If you spend over 35 days in US in 12 month period, you are not allowed to
use foreign income exclusion under PPT, but you may still be eligible under
BFR.
You are not taxed on assets. You are taxed on income.

s*n2017-01-25 08:01

24 楼

Can you explain more about "The excess of foreign tax credit" and how can we
use to deduct our taxes owned in the following years when we don't have
foreign taxes? I am asking because I worked in China in 2015, not 2016. I
have paid more taxes in China and have excess of foreign tax credit.

expire
tax

【在 A********o 的大作中提到】

: The excess of foreign tax credit can be carry forward at most 10 years to
: tax years when you have US income tax, or carry back 1 year. It will expire
: if you don't owe IRS.
: Executives may have other oversea income subject to US tax but not China tax
: , such as investment in Japan. So they may need to pay more US tax. It
: depends on your total taxable income subject to US tax.

A*o2017-01-25 08:01

25 楼

Ok, so let's say you paid 10k tax to China in 2015, and you owed US 6k in
2015. The excess is 4K, and can be carryforward to 2016 tax year. If you
paid no foreign tax and owe 2k US tax in 2016 tax year, you can deduct 2k,
and carryover 2k to 2017 tax year. But foreign tax credit is complicated in
calculation. You can search the form and read the instruction.

p*r2017-01-25 08:01

26 楼

记号一下，将来得用上了。

P*t2017-01-25 08:01

27 楼

海外收入每人有九万多的免税额，你只能申报你自己的免税额，也就是说，如果你的收
入超过十万，而你的太太不工作，那么你的免税额还是九万多；如果你太太有收入，而
且也有绿卡或公民，那么她就可以申请她的那份海外收入免税额。此外还有户主，人头
和孩子的通用免税额，这部分和在美国报税是一样的。
另外你在国内的部分生活成本也可以抵税，例如房租，停车费什么的，抵税额的上限根
据你所在海外城市不同而有不同，可以在IRS的网站查到。
海外报税涉及的税表，除了1040，还有2555，1116，细节你自己看下表里带的说明。

s*g2017-01-25 08:01

28 楼

感觉你说的很靠谱。
一个更加头疼的问题是人民币不能自由兑换美元。一个具体的例子是比如在国内炒股挣
了200万人民币，国内炒股挣钱不收税，而美国要收。如果不能把挣的人民币换成美元
，那如何交美国的税？
Anyone with any clue?

double

【在 A********o 的大作中提到】

: 1. 无论海归与否，每年都要报税，除非收入低于一定条件，IRS会有说明
: 2. 2016 tax year foreign income exclusion是102k左右，条件二选一：一个自然年
: 都长居国外，在海外建立tax home（可以偶尔回美）；连续12个月海外超过330天（即
: 不能回美超过35天）。建议找CPA咨询，或者查询BFR和PPT。可能会影响绿卡，建议咨
: 询移民律师。
: 3. 中国税高的话可以选择foreign tax credit来抵美国个税，超过美国个税部分可以
: carryover。如果选择exclusion，那么exclude的部分不能take credit，即不能double
: benefit。
: 4. Foreign income exclusion（不是exemption）是夫妻分开计算，不存在double
: 5. 全球征税按照在美国征税处理，好像没有房产增值税（不清楚什么是国内房产增值

s*c2017-01-25 08:01

29 楼

基本靠谱。其实最好中国城找个税务会计。自己搞清楚要花不少时间，但也没有那么复
杂，除非你的收入很多样。在中国，$150k的税率应该没有那么高，除非这个$150k真的
是平均到12个月来发。最好是一部分以年终奖的形式，一部分以房补的形式发下来，税
率就下来了。

double

【在 A********o 的大作中提到】

: 1. 无论海归与否，每年都要报税，除非收入低于一定条件，IRS会有说明
: 2. 2016 tax year foreign income exclusion是102k左右，条件二选一：一个自然年
: 都长居国外，在海外建立tax home（可以偶尔回美）；连续12个月海外超过330天（即
: 不能回美超过35天）。建议找CPA咨询，或者查询BFR和PPT。可能会影响绿卡，建议咨
: 询移民律师。
: 3. 中国税高的话可以选择foreign tax credit来抵美国个税，超过美国个税部分可以
: carryover。如果选择exclusion，那么exclude的部分不能take credit，即不能double
: benefit。
: 4. Foreign income exclusion（不是exemption）是夫妻分开计算，不存在double
: 5. 全球征税按照在美国征税处理，好像没有房产增值税（不清楚什么是国内房产增值