A*y
2 楼
That's not the problem. The problem is that the treatment life extension is
marginal. Also, it is for prostate cancer. Also, if you have prostate
cancer, you are more likely died of old age than the cancer. If you can
curve a cancer, you can set crazy amount of money. Look at Gleevec, the
price has doubled over last few years but you have to buy it or you die.
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 原因是体外培养DC成本太高卖不出去了。
: 现在热门的T细胞治疗怎么避免这个问题？
marginal. Also, it is for prostate cancer. Also, if you have prostate
cancer, you are more likely died of old age than the cancer. If you can
curve a cancer, you can set crazy amount of money. Look at Gleevec, the
price has doubled over last few years but you have to buy it or you die.
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 原因是体外培养DC成本太高卖不出去了。
: 现在热门的T细胞治疗怎么避免这个问题？
h*o
3 楼
Not many people can afford 90k for less than 6 months of life and no
insurance company wants to pick it up.
is
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: That's not the problem. The problem is that the treatment life extension is
: marginal. Also, it is for prostate cancer. Also, if you have prostate
: cancer, you are more likely died of old age than the cancer. If you can
: curve a cancer, you can set crazy amount of money. Look at Gleevec, the
: price has doubled over last few years but you have to buy it or you die.
insurance company wants to pick it up.
is
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: That's not the problem. The problem is that the treatment life extension is
: marginal. Also, it is for prostate cancer. Also, if you have prostate
: cancer, you are more likely died of old age than the cancer. If you can
: curve a cancer, you can set crazy amount of money. Look at Gleevec, the
: price has doubled over last few years but you have to buy it or you die.
n*e
4 楼
ArtyArty大牛，你能否预测一下novavrtis的CART一个疗程要多少钱，30万美元够吗？
A*y
5 楼
It is one time cure. If I'm Novartis, I will market somewhere between 1 to
1.5 million including hospital stays as long as insurance pay for it.
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: ArtyArty大牛，你能否预测一下novavrtis的CART一个疗程要多少钱，30万美元够吗？
1.5 million including hospital stays as long as insurance pay for it.
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: ArtyArty大牛，你能否预测一下novavrtis的CART一个疗程要多少钱，30万美元够吗？
c*k
6 楼
this is just a joke
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 原因是体外培养DC成本太高卖不出去了。
: 现在热门的T细胞治疗怎么避免这个问题？
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 原因是体外培养DC成本太高卖不出去了。
: 现在热门的T细胞治疗怎么避免这个问题？
r*g
7 楼
等car T 通过了FDA再议论吧
之前跟一个在做Car T clinical trial的医生聊了一下
have an intensive care unit bed prepared for each patient ungergoing trial.
这个therapy听起来很酷，要解决的问题很多
to
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: It is one time cure. If I'm Novartis, I will market somewhere between 1 to
: 1.5 million including hospital stays as long as insurance pay for it.
之前跟一个在做Car T clinical trial的医生聊了一下
have an intensive care unit bed prepared for each patient ungergoing trial.
这个therapy听起来很酷，要解决的问题很多
to
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: It is one time cure. If I'm Novartis, I will market somewhere between 1 to
: 1.5 million including hospital stays as long as insurance pay for it.
r*g
8 楼
能不能跟我讲讲：
Car T 比起 Rutaximab究竟优势在哪里？
to
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: It is one time cure. If I'm Novartis, I will market somewhere between 1 to
: 1.5 million including hospital stays as long as insurance pay for it.
Car T 比起 Rutaximab究竟优势在哪里？
to
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: It is one time cure. If I'm Novartis, I will market somewhere between 1 to
: 1.5 million including hospital stays as long as insurance pay for it.
A*y
9 楼
Car T is cell therapy, based on its clinical trial successful rate, I'm
almost certain that it will be approved. It has similar successful rate of
Gleevec (Gleevec phase 1 is 100%, haha, 88% at phase II and probably because
due to misdiagnosis), it worked about 75% for Car T (I could be
wrong but is very high) in phase 1 and it is used to treat ALL and CLL.
Although, youth ALL is very well controlled, I think adult ALL is a lot
harder to treat; plus additional of CLL patients for its uses. Rutaximab is
a monoclonal antibody, and it is only approved for lymphoma, which we have
many other drugs for it.
Since I'm into Leukemia, I think at this rate, we will probably conquer
aggressive AML and MM in two decades with simple therapies.
【在 r******g 的大作中提到】
: 能不能跟我讲讲：
: Car T 比起 Rutaximab究竟优势在哪里？
:
: to
almost certain that it will be approved. It has similar successful rate of
Gleevec (Gleevec phase 1 is 100%, haha, 88% at phase II and probably because
due to misdiagnosis), it worked about 75% for Car T (I could be
wrong but is very high) in phase 1 and it is used to treat ALL and CLL.
Although, youth ALL is very well controlled, I think adult ALL is a lot
harder to treat; plus additional of CLL patients for its uses. Rutaximab is
a monoclonal antibody, and it is only approved for lymphoma, which we have
many other drugs for it.
Since I'm into Leukemia, I think at this rate, we will probably conquer
aggressive AML and MM in two decades with simple therapies.
【在 r******g 的大作中提到】
: 能不能跟我讲讲：
: Car T 比起 Rutaximab究竟优势在哪里？
:
: to
j*i
10 楼
t细胞激活后可以扩增，产生大量的抗肿瘤细胞，效果更彻底。当然，car-t细胞的副作
用也可以更大。
【在 r******g 的大作中提到】
: 能不能跟我讲讲：
: Car T 比起 Rutaximab究竟优势在哪里？
:
: to
用也可以更大。
【在 r******g 的大作中提到】
: 能不能跟我讲讲：
: Car T 比起 Rutaximab究竟优势在哪里？
:
: to
r*g
11 楼
不好意思，我问的问题有点儿歧义。
我们可以这么分析
Rituximab 治疗 B cell lymphoma 基本上是神药了～ 这么多年来，genetech挣了不少
钱。 其实机制很简单，就是把病人体内 normal和malignant的B cell全部杀光，
targeting CD20.
Car T 目前最好的trial是 target CD19, 跟CD20机制类似，说到底就是 换汤不换药，
用transduced engineered T cell把CD19+的normal 和malignant B 细胞一起杀掉。目
前 clinical trial主要用于 B cell leukemia.
其实rituximab治疗B cell leukemia的效果很好，你去查一下clinical trial的结果，
naive patient 90% 的有效率～ 但是，pharma也没有很积极的把rituxan推向clinical
trial。原因是“rituxan现在很能挣钱，就让它继续挣，专利15年过期，再用于
leukemia挣钱” 或者“用car 挣钱？“
Car T这几年 副作用这么大，治疗过程对于医院要求这么高，并且价格比rituxan贵这
么多，真的有必要吗？
of
because
is
have
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Car T is cell therapy, based on its clinical trial successful rate, I'm
: almost certain that it will be approved. It has similar successful rate of
: Gleevec (Gleevec phase 1 is 100%, haha, 88% at phase II and probably because
: due to misdiagnosis), it worked about 75% for Car T (I could be
: wrong but is very high) in phase 1 and it is used to treat ALL and CLL.
: Although, youth ALL is very well controlled, I think adult ALL is a lot
: harder to treat; plus additional of CLL patients for its uses. Rutaximab is
: a monoclonal antibody, and it is only approved for lymphoma, which we have
: many other drugs for it.
: Since I'm into Leukemia, I think at this rate, we will probably conquer
我们可以这么分析
Rituximab 治疗 B cell lymphoma 基本上是神药了～ 这么多年来，genetech挣了不少
钱。 其实机制很简单，就是把病人体内 normal和malignant的B cell全部杀光，
targeting CD20.
Car T 目前最好的trial是 target CD19, 跟CD20机制类似，说到底就是 换汤不换药，
用transduced engineered T cell把CD19+的normal 和malignant B 细胞一起杀掉。目
前 clinical trial主要用于 B cell leukemia.
其实rituximab治疗B cell leukemia的效果很好，你去查一下clinical trial的结果，
naive patient 90% 的有效率～ 但是，pharma也没有很积极的把rituxan推向clinical
trial。原因是“rituxan现在很能挣钱，就让它继续挣，专利15年过期，再用于
leukemia挣钱” 或者“用car 挣钱？“
Car T这几年 副作用这么大，治疗过程对于医院要求这么高，并且价格比rituxan贵这
么多，真的有必要吗？
of
because
is
have
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Car T is cell therapy, based on its clinical trial successful rate, I'm
: almost certain that it will be approved. It has similar successful rate of
: Gleevec (Gleevec phase 1 is 100%, haha, 88% at phase II and probably because
: due to misdiagnosis), it worked about 75% for Car T (I could be
: wrong but is very high) in phase 1 and it is used to treat ALL and CLL.
: Although, youth ALL is very well controlled, I think adult ALL is a lot
: harder to treat; plus additional of CLL patients for its uses. Rutaximab is
: a monoclonal antibody, and it is only approved for lymphoma, which we have
: many other drugs for it.
: Since I'm into Leukemia, I think at this rate, we will probably conquer
A*y
12 楼
At this point, it is not science anymore. It is marketing and patent
extension. Some of the techniques are even on the boundary of unethical
such as force switch and close distribution.
See this link on how some drugs are protected:
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/09/11/the_most_uncons
clinical
【在 r******g 的大作中提到】
: 不好意思，我问的问题有点儿歧义。
: 我们可以这么分析
: Rituximab 治疗 B cell lymphoma 基本上是神药了～ 这么多年来，genetech挣了不少
: 钱。 其实机制很简单，就是把病人体内 normal和malignant的B cell全部杀光，
: targeting CD20.
: Car T 目前最好的trial是 target CD19, 跟CD20机制类似，说到底就是 换汤不换药，
: 用transduced engineered T cell把CD19+的normal 和malignant B 细胞一起杀掉。目
: 前 clinical trial主要用于 B cell leukemia.
: 其实rituximab治疗B cell leukemia的效果很好，你去查一下clinical trial的结果，
: naive patient 90% 的有效率～ 但是，pharma也没有很积极的把rituxan推向clinical
extension. Some of the techniques are even on the boundary of unethical
such as force switch and close distribution.
See this link on how some drugs are protected:
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/09/11/the_most_uncons
clinical
【在 r******g 的大作中提到】
: 不好意思，我问的问题有点儿歧义。
: 我们可以这么分析
: Rituximab 治疗 B cell lymphoma 基本上是神药了～ 这么多年来，genetech挣了不少
: 钱。 其实机制很简单，就是把病人体内 normal和malignant的B cell全部杀光，
: targeting CD20.
: Car T 目前最好的trial是 target CD19, 跟CD20机制类似，说到底就是 换汤不换药，
: 用transduced engineered T cell把CD19+的normal 和malignant B 细胞一起杀掉。目
: 前 clinical trial主要用于 B cell leukemia.
: 其实rituximab治疗B cell leukemia的效果很好，你去查一下clinical trial的结果，
: naive patient 90% 的有效率～ 但是，pharma也没有很积极的把rituxan推向clinical
r*g
13 楼
谢谢分享，有点儿意思啊～！
：D
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: At this point, it is not science anymore. It is marketing and patent
: extension. Some of the techniques are even on the boundary of unethical
: such as force switch and close distribution.
: See this link on how some drugs are protected:
: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/09/11/the_most_uncons
:
: clinical
：D
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: At this point, it is not science anymore. It is marketing and patent
: extension. Some of the techniques are even on the boundary of unethical
: such as force switch and close distribution.
: See this link on how some drugs are protected:
: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/09/11/the_most_uncons
:
: clinical
n*e
14 楼
我有点觉得T细胞的问题不会比DC少。T细胞的副作用很大，尤其是将来要推广到实体瘤
的时候，肿瘤抗原的特异性又不好。减少T细胞的副作用的方法有哪些？
is
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: That's not the problem. The problem is that the treatment life extension is
: marginal. Also, it is for prostate cancer. Also, if you have prostate
: cancer, you are more likely died of old age than the cancer. If you can
: curve a cancer, you can set crazy amount of money. Look at Gleevec, the
: price has doubled over last few years but you have to buy it or you die.
的时候，肿瘤抗原的特异性又不好。减少T细胞的副作用的方法有哪些？
is
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: That's not the problem. The problem is that the treatment life extension is
: marginal. Also, it is for prostate cancer. Also, if you have prostate
: cancer, you are more likely died of old age than the cancer. If you can
: curve a cancer, you can set crazy amount of money. Look at Gleevec, the
: price has doubled over last few years but you have to buy it or you die.
r*g
15 楼
你去读Carl june的那篇NEJM的paper
他用了etanercept and tocilizumab来处理cytokine storm syndrome
这治疗可以想象能有多贵了...
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 我有点觉得T细胞的问题不会比DC少。T细胞的副作用很大，尤其是将来要推广到实体瘤
: 的时候，肿瘤抗原的特异性又不好。减少T细胞的副作用的方法有哪些？
:
: is
他用了etanercept and tocilizumab来处理cytokine storm syndrome
这治疗可以想象能有多贵了...
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 我有点觉得T细胞的问题不会比DC少。T细胞的副作用很大，尤其是将来要推广到实体瘤
: 的时候，肿瘤抗原的特异性又不好。减少T细胞的副作用的方法有哪些？
:
: is
r*g
16 楼
你读这篇June的paper
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4058440/
他用了etanercept and tocilizumab来cytokine storm的问题
用两个这个贵的药来处理“side effects”
可想而知，这个therapy能有多贵了...
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 我有点觉得T细胞的问题不会比DC少。T细胞的副作用很大，尤其是将来要推广到实体瘤
: 的时候，肿瘤抗原的特异性又不好。减少T细胞的副作用的方法有哪些？
:
: is
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4058440/
他用了etanercept and tocilizumab来cytokine storm的问题
用两个这个贵的药来处理“side effects”
可想而知，这个therapy能有多贵了...
【在 n**e 的大作中提到】
: 我有点觉得T细胞的问题不会比DC少。T细胞的副作用很大，尤其是将来要推广到实体瘤
: 的时候，肿瘤抗原的特异性又不好。减少T细胞的副作用的方法有哪些？
:
: is
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