f*u
2 楼
这正是有争议的地方。有的律师认为EB2级别的PERM可以支持EB3的I-140，有的认为不
行。你贴的这个属于认为不行的。
【在 P********6 的大作中提到】
: http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/67697-unique-situation
行。你贴的这个属于认为不行的。
【在 P********6 的大作中提到】
: http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/67697-unique-situation
f*0
3 楼
标准答案
【在 P********6 的大作中提到】
: http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/67697-unique-situation
【在 P********6 的大作中提到】
: http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/67697-unique-situation
f*0
4 楼
有些人认为模糊的地方就是可以尝试的
【在 f**u 的大作中提到】
: 这正是有争议的地方。有的律师认为EB2级别的PERM可以支持EB3的I-140，有的认为不
: 行。你贴的这个属于认为不行的。
【在 f**u 的大作中提到】
: 这正是有争议的地方。有的律师认为EB2级别的PERM可以支持EB3的I-140，有的认为不
: 行。你贴的这个属于认为不行的。
t*e
5 楼
有道理，
f*0
6 楼
EB2 perm job requirements test job market, then file Eb2 and EB3 I-140, that
's some EB2C want to do now
's some EB2C want to do now
M*r
7 楼
EB2再加申请EB3,这个也是我想明白的问题。这是个老美律师写的news，他在路易斯安
那口碑不错，对顾客算是诚实，写作方面狡猾狡猾的。不想读全文的话就读第二段第一
句吧。注意possible和almost这些词语。
《Possible Solution to Long EB Waiting List for China: Downgrade Your Case
from EB2 to EB3!》
The December 2013 Visa Bulletin confirms a strange trend we have witnessed
recently in some employment-based categories: it may be better to be EB3
than EB2. For nationals of China, those with EB2 priority dates have a
cutoff date of November 8, 2008, while those with EB3 priority dates have a
cutoff date of October 1, 2011, nearly three years later. This raises a
strange question: Should you downgrade your EB2 case to EB3?
One possible solution is to file a second I-140 visa petition in the third
preference category using the prior EB2 labor certification. Almost all
labor certification-based EB2 cases qualify to also file under EB3, with no
change to the prior labor certification. As applicants can maintain their
old EB2 priority date with a new petition, they can also possibly
concurrently file an I-485 application to adjust status, if their old
priority date is "current" under the EB3. Dependents can file applications
for adjustment of status at the same time and each family member can also
thereby obtain a work card and permission to travel outside the US without a
visa (advance parole).
It is important to discuss this strategy with a qualified immigration
attorney as there are potential downsides, including the possibility of EB3
retrogression beyond the cutoff date of the EB2. Current Department of State
predictions do not indicate a likely EB3 retrogression in the near future,
however. Those who are able to file an EB3 I-140 and application to adjust
status during December may remain "current" long enough for USCIS to
adjudicate their applications for permanent residence (three to six months).
Premium processing the I-140 petition is not an option, since USCIS does
not permit Premium Processing in cases where a copy of the original labor
certification is filed with the petition.
Filing the third preference petition does not conflict in any way with the
second preference petition, and does not void or nullify it. Moreover, even
if the EB3 retrogresses, the application for adjustment of status (I-485)
can easily be paired with the petition having the better cutoff date,
despite having already been filed.
那口碑不错，对顾客算是诚实，写作方面狡猾狡猾的。不想读全文的话就读第二段第一
句吧。注意possible和almost这些词语。
《Possible Solution to Long EB Waiting List for China: Downgrade Your Case
from EB2 to EB3!》
The December 2013 Visa Bulletin confirms a strange trend we have witnessed
recently in some employment-based categories: it may be better to be EB3
than EB2. For nationals of China, those with EB2 priority dates have a
cutoff date of November 8, 2008, while those with EB3 priority dates have a
cutoff date of October 1, 2011, nearly three years later. This raises a
strange question: Should you downgrade your EB2 case to EB3?
One possible solution is to file a second I-140 visa petition in the third
preference category using the prior EB2 labor certification. Almost all
labor certification-based EB2 cases qualify to also file under EB3, with no
change to the prior labor certification. As applicants can maintain their
old EB2 priority date with a new petition, they can also possibly
concurrently file an I-485 application to adjust status, if their old
priority date is "current" under the EB3. Dependents can file applications
for adjustment of status at the same time and each family member can also
thereby obtain a work card and permission to travel outside the US without a
visa (advance parole).
It is important to discuss this strategy with a qualified immigration
attorney as there are potential downsides, including the possibility of EB3
retrogression beyond the cutoff date of the EB2. Current Department of State
predictions do not indicate a likely EB3 retrogression in the near future,
however. Those who are able to file an EB3 I-140 and application to adjust
status during December may remain "current" long enough for USCIS to
adjudicate their applications for permanent residence (three to six months).
Premium processing the I-140 petition is not an option, since USCIS does
not permit Premium Processing in cases where a copy of the original labor
certification is filed with the petition.
Filing the third preference petition does not conflict in any way with the
second preference petition, and does not void or nullify it. Moreover, even
if the EB3 retrogresses, the application for adjustment of status (I-485)
can easily be paired with the petition having the better cutoff date,
despite having already been filed.
n*m
8 楼
The second paragraph is totally a piece of BS and against all logic behind
the purpose of PERM. I doubt if any reasonable person can say such thing
except lawyers, as they only care about money.
If a foreignor uses EB2 requirement to get rid of americans who do not
qualify for EB2 but may otherwise qualify for EB3, and then apply for EB3 I-
140, pretedding no americans qualify for EB3, it is nothing but a fraud,
period.
However, I do buy the argument that "Filing the third preference petition
does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does
not void or nullify it." Since there is no penalty, why not give it a try
and hope USCIS accidentally makes a mistake and let the fraud passes. Nasty
lawyer.
the purpose of PERM. I doubt if any reasonable person can say such thing
except lawyers, as they only care about money.
If a foreignor uses EB2 requirement to get rid of americans who do not
qualify for EB2 but may otherwise qualify for EB3, and then apply for EB3 I-
140, pretedding no americans qualify for EB3, it is nothing but a fraud,
period.
However, I do buy the argument that "Filing the third preference petition
does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does
not void or nullify it." Since there is no penalty, why not give it a try
and hope USCIS accidentally makes a mistake and let the fraud passes. Nasty
lawyer.
f*y
9 楼
这也是一家之谈吧
h*m
10 楼
You are the one who misunderstood PERM and classification of EB visa.
Purpose of the PERM is to audit whether the job description you want to put
on the Ad is reasonable and legitimate. It has nothing to do with EB visa
category until later i-140 process.
Once the PERM is approved, the job description and the marketing test result
is considered legitimate and will be accepted by USCIS as an evidence to
review I-140 petition.
Then USCIS will review all supporting docs against the EB visa requirement
to determine if the beneficiary qualify for the visa selected on the I-140
form.
I-
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: The second paragraph is totally a piece of BS and against all logic behind
: the purpose of PERM. I doubt if any reasonable person can say such thing
: except lawyers, as they only care about money.
: If a foreignor uses EB2 requirement to get rid of americans who do not
: qualify for EB2 but may otherwise qualify for EB3, and then apply for EB3 I-
: 140, pretedding no americans qualify for EB3, it is nothing but a fraud,
: period.
: However, I do buy the argument that "Filing the third preference petition
: does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does
: not void or nullify it." Since there is no penalty, why not give it a try
Purpose of the PERM is to audit whether the job description you want to put
on the Ad is reasonable and legitimate. It has nothing to do with EB visa
category until later i-140 process.
Once the PERM is approved, the job description and the marketing test result
is considered legitimate and will be accepted by USCIS as an evidence to
review I-140 petition.
Then USCIS will review all supporting docs against the EB visa requirement
to determine if the beneficiary qualify for the visa selected on the I-140
form.
I-
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: The second paragraph is totally a piece of BS and against all logic behind
: the purpose of PERM. I doubt if any reasonable person can say such thing
: except lawyers, as they only care about money.
: If a foreignor uses EB2 requirement to get rid of americans who do not
: qualify for EB2 but may otherwise qualify for EB3, and then apply for EB3 I-
: 140, pretedding no americans qualify for EB3, it is nothing but a fraud,
: period.
: However, I do buy the argument that "Filing the third preference petition
: does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does
: not void or nullify it." Since there is no penalty, why not give it a try
S*9
11 楼
一家之言，别误导群众了
n*m
12 楼
The sole purpose of PERM is to make sure the job cannot be filled by an
american or a green card holder. One cannot use false EB2 requriement to
advertise an EB3 job. Do you agree?
whether USCIS is willing to catch such fraud and to what extent the
punishment is are subject to debate, just like USCIS treats those so-called
one-child policy victims.
put
result
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: You are the one who misunderstood PERM and classification of EB visa.
: Purpose of the PERM is to audit whether the job description you want to put
: on the Ad is reasonable and legitimate. It has nothing to do with EB visa
: category until later i-140 process.
: Once the PERM is approved, the job description and the marketing test result
: is considered legitimate and will be accepted by USCIS as an evidence to
: review I-140 petition.
: Then USCIS will review all supporting docs against the EB visa requirement
: to determine if the beneficiary qualify for the visa selected on the I-140
: form.
american or a green card holder. One cannot use false EB2 requriement to
advertise an EB3 job. Do you agree?
whether USCIS is willing to catch such fraud and to what extent the
punishment is are subject to debate, just like USCIS treats those so-called
one-child policy victims.
put
result
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: You are the one who misunderstood PERM and classification of EB visa.
: Purpose of the PERM is to audit whether the job description you want to put
: on the Ad is reasonable and legitimate. It has nothing to do with EB visa
: category until later i-140 process.
: Once the PERM is approved, the job description and the marketing test result
: is considered legitimate and will be accepted by USCIS as an evidence to
: review I-140 petition.
: Then USCIS will review all supporting docs against the EB visa requirement
: to determine if the beneficiary qualify for the visa selected on the I-140
: form.
h*m
13 楼
there is no such EB2 job or EB3 job, whatever minimum requirement of the job
you put on the PERM subject to DOL's approval. If they approve, it is not
fraud.
Does a chef position a EB2 or EB3 job?
Do you think they will allow one to use a Master degree requirement for a
chef position just to make sure no one qualify?
On the other hand, if I have plenty of reason and evidence to prove the
position require a chef with a Master degree in nutrition because he is
going to cook for a special group on a regular basis, will DOL grant my
requirement on the PERM?
called
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: The sole purpose of PERM is to make sure the job cannot be filled by an
: american or a green card holder. One cannot use false EB2 requriement to
: advertise an EB3 job. Do you agree?
: whether USCIS is willing to catch such fraud and to what extent the
: punishment is are subject to debate, just like USCIS treats those so-called
: one-child policy victims.
:
: put
: result
you put on the PERM subject to DOL's approval. If they approve, it is not
fraud.
Does a chef position a EB2 or EB3 job?
Do you think they will allow one to use a Master degree requirement for a
chef position just to make sure no one qualify?
On the other hand, if I have plenty of reason and evidence to prove the
position require a chef with a Master degree in nutrition because he is
going to cook for a special group on a regular basis, will DOL grant my
requirement on the PERM?
called
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: The sole purpose of PERM is to make sure the job cannot be filled by an
: american or a green card holder. One cannot use false EB2 requriement to
: advertise an EB3 job. Do you agree?
: whether USCIS is willing to catch such fraud and to what extent the
: punishment is are subject to debate, just like USCIS treats those so-called
: one-child policy victims.
:
: put
: result
n*m
14 楼
PERM does not specify 2 or 3, I-140 does. Thus it is USCIS to scrutinize
1) if I-140 matches the advertised position described in PERM and
2) if the applicant qualifies for the advertised position described in PERM.
Many people hope USCIS ignores 1) but only looks at 2). However, how many
applicants who submit EB3 I-140 do not have a master's degree? So why bother
to have EB2 or EB3 if only 2) is needed.
But everyone is gambling that USCIS cannot do much even receiving a fraud I-
140. So what, no loss. If USCIS said one would be deported, no one will try.
job
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: there is no such EB2 job or EB3 job, whatever minimum requirement of the job
: you put on the PERM subject to DOL's approval. If they approve, it is not
: fraud.
: Does a chef position a EB2 or EB3 job?
: Do you think they will allow one to use a Master degree requirement for a
: chef position just to make sure no one qualify?
: On the other hand, if I have plenty of reason and evidence to prove the
: position require a chef with a Master degree in nutrition because he is
: going to cook for a special group on a regular basis, will DOL grant my
: requirement on the PERM?
1) if I-140 matches the advertised position described in PERM and
2) if the applicant qualifies for the advertised position described in PERM.
Many people hope USCIS ignores 1) but only looks at 2). However, how many
applicants who submit EB3 I-140 do not have a master's degree? So why bother
to have EB2 or EB3 if only 2) is needed.
But everyone is gambling that USCIS cannot do much even receiving a fraud I-
140. So what, no loss. If USCIS said one would be deported, no one will try.
job
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: there is no such EB2 job or EB3 job, whatever minimum requirement of the job
: you put on the PERM subject to DOL's approval. If they approve, it is not
: fraud.
: Does a chef position a EB2 or EB3 job?
: Do you think they will allow one to use a Master degree requirement for a
: chef position just to make sure no one qualify?
: On the other hand, if I have plenty of reason and evidence to prove the
: position require a chef with a Master degree in nutrition because he is
: going to cook for a special group on a regular basis, will DOL grant my
: requirement on the PERM?
h*m
15 楼
Let me give you an example: If a high-tech research center hired a scientist
and required PHD for the job, then get PERM approved and file for EB3 i-140
. What make you think this scientist not qualified for EB3?
Did the employer not properly test the market of people with master and
bachelor degree? The employer just cannot accept anyone without the required
background because of the nature of the job. why bother test?
According to USCIS, the EB3 requires job must be minimum of bachelor degree,
this is the bottom line, anything above should be qualify for EB3 as well.
If you really think EB visa does not need a category, then EB1, 2 are not
necessary, because whoever qualify for those qualify for EB3 as well.
However, if that happens, everybody apply for EB3 and wait, whether you are
a scientist in a high-tech project or a regular chef in the Chinese take-out
restaurant. If there is no advantage for the advance degree required job(
and this type jobs considered hard to apply and fill), how can America
attract advance degree people to work in US. I know you work hard and up to
an EB1, would you still work hard in this case, or would you rather find a
job and start waiting?
USCIS had different category like EB1, 2, so that an immigrant with higher
degree can get the visa faster as long as they meet another different "
minimum requirement".
Ideally, when one file PERM, one supposes to list whatever the real job
description is and test the market.DOL suppose to make sure there is no
fraud info. during the process.
Based on the approved PERM, the employer get to choose the most favorable
and qualified visa category when file i-140.
USCIS will examine if the beneficiary meet the minimum requirement of that
visa category.
If an employer choose the EB3 visa while they also qualify for EB2, it might
not be FAIR for people who ONLY qualify for EB3, but it definitely not
FRAUD.
PERM.
bother
I-
try.
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: PERM does not specify 2 or 3, I-140 does. Thus it is USCIS to scrutinize
: 1) if I-140 matches the advertised position described in PERM and
: 2) if the applicant qualifies for the advertised position described in PERM.
: Many people hope USCIS ignores 1) but only looks at 2). However, how many
: applicants who submit EB3 I-140 do not have a master's degree? So why bother
: to have EB2 or EB3 if only 2) is needed.
: But everyone is gambling that USCIS cannot do much even receiving a fraud I-
: 140. So what, no loss. If USCIS said one would be deported, no one will try.
:
: job
and required PHD for the job, then get PERM approved and file for EB3 i-140
. What make you think this scientist not qualified for EB3?
Did the employer not properly test the market of people with master and
bachelor degree? The employer just cannot accept anyone without the required
background because of the nature of the job. why bother test?
According to USCIS, the EB3 requires job must be minimum of bachelor degree,
this is the bottom line, anything above should be qualify for EB3 as well.
If you really think EB visa does not need a category, then EB1, 2 are not
necessary, because whoever qualify for those qualify for EB3 as well.
However, if that happens, everybody apply for EB3 and wait, whether you are
a scientist in a high-tech project or a regular chef in the Chinese take-out
restaurant. If there is no advantage for the advance degree required job(
and this type jobs considered hard to apply and fill), how can America
attract advance degree people to work in US. I know you work hard and up to
an EB1, would you still work hard in this case, or would you rather find a
job and start waiting?
USCIS had different category like EB1, 2, so that an immigrant with higher
degree can get the visa faster as long as they meet another different "
minimum requirement".
Ideally, when one file PERM, one supposes to list whatever the real job
description is and test the market.DOL suppose to make sure there is no
fraud info. during the process.
Based on the approved PERM, the employer get to choose the most favorable
and qualified visa category when file i-140.
USCIS will examine if the beneficiary meet the minimum requirement of that
visa category.
If an employer choose the EB3 visa while they also qualify for EB2, it might
not be FAIR for people who ONLY qualify for EB3, but it definitely not
FRAUD.
PERM.
bother
I-
try.
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: PERM does not specify 2 or 3, I-140 does. Thus it is USCIS to scrutinize
: 1) if I-140 matches the advertised position described in PERM and
: 2) if the applicant qualifies for the advertised position described in PERM.
: Many people hope USCIS ignores 1) but only looks at 2). However, how many
: applicants who submit EB3 I-140 do not have a master's degree? So why bother
: to have EB2 or EB3 if only 2) is needed.
: But everyone is gambling that USCIS cannot do much even receiving a fraud I-
: 140. So what, no loss. If USCIS said one would be deported, no one will try.
:
: job
n*m
16 楼
It is simple, you can always over-qualify but cannot under-qualify. When my
company files EB3C for me, I specifically asked that since I am PhD, why I
cannot do EB2C, the lawyer replied that I-140 only matches PERM， nothing to
do with my qualification as long as I pass the line.
Back to you hypothetical case, if a PhD is required in the job ad, it is EB2。
scientist
140
required
degree,
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: Let me give you an example: If a high-tech research center hired a scientist
: and required PHD for the job, then get PERM approved and file for EB3 i-140
: . What make you think this scientist not qualified for EB3?
: Did the employer not properly test the market of people with master and
: bachelor degree? The employer just cannot accept anyone without the required
: background because of the nature of the job. why bother test?
: According to USCIS, the EB3 requires job must be minimum of bachelor degree,
: this is the bottom line, anything above should be qualify for EB3 as well.
: If you really think EB visa does not need a category, then EB1, 2 are not
: necessary, because whoever qualify for those qualify for EB3 as well.
company files EB3C for me, I specifically asked that since I am PhD, why I
cannot do EB2C, the lawyer replied that I-140 only matches PERM， nothing to
do with my qualification as long as I pass the line.
Back to you hypothetical case, if a PhD is required in the job ad, it is EB2。
scientist
140
required
degree,
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: Let me give you an example: If a high-tech research center hired a scientist
: and required PHD for the job, then get PERM approved and file for EB3 i-140
: . What make you think this scientist not qualified for EB3?
: Did the employer not properly test the market of people with master and
: bachelor degree? The employer just cannot accept anyone without the required
: background because of the nature of the job. why bother test?
: According to USCIS, the EB3 requires job must be minimum of bachelor degree,
: this is the bottom line, anything above should be qualify for EB3 as well.
: If you really think EB visa does not need a category, then EB1, 2 are not
: necessary, because whoever qualify for those qualify for EB3 as well.
n*m
17 楼
Back to your second question of heirarchy of EB123, as it is totally
different issue.From national interest point of view, it is natural to have
a scientist over a chef for immigration.
In other words, DOL and USCIS may not always be on the same page.
scientist
140
required
degree,
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: Let me give you an example: If a high-tech research center hired a scientist
: and required PHD for the job, then get PERM approved and file for EB3 i-140
: . What make you think this scientist not qualified for EB3?
: Did the employer not properly test the market of people with master and
: bachelor degree? The employer just cannot accept anyone without the required
: background because of the nature of the job. why bother test?
: According to USCIS, the EB3 requires job must be minimum of bachelor degree,
: this is the bottom line, anything above should be qualify for EB3 as well.
: If you really think EB visa does not need a category, then EB1, 2 are not
: necessary, because whoever qualify for those qualify for EB3 as well.
different issue.From national interest point of view, it is natural to have
a scientist over a chef for immigration.
In other words, DOL and USCIS may not always be on the same page.
scientist
140
required
degree,
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: Let me give you an example: If a high-tech research center hired a scientist
: and required PHD for the job, then get PERM approved and file for EB3 i-140
: . What make you think this scientist not qualified for EB3?
: Did the employer not properly test the market of people with master and
: bachelor degree? The employer just cannot accept anyone without the required
: background because of the nature of the job. why bother test?
: According to USCIS, the EB3 requires job must be minimum of bachelor degree,
: this is the bottom line, anything above should be qualify for EB3 as well.
: If you really think EB visa does not need a category, then EB1, 2 are not
: necessary, because whoever qualify for those qualify for EB3 as well.
h*m
18 楼
ok. Base on EB3 point of view, how will USCIS disqualify a scientist over a
chef for immigration if both applied for EB3? Fraud? It's all about the
employer's choice.
It is not fraud if one have more than 1 choice, it seems unfair to those who
don't. Wake up! This is not a fair world.
After all, none of us is special regardless what education you had, it is US
think the one with advanced degree are special and useful for the country
and offers a short cut to those people.
have
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: Back to your second question of heirarchy of EB123, as it is totally
: different issue.From national interest point of view, it is natural to have
: a scientist over a chef for immigration.
: In other words, DOL and USCIS may not always be on the same page.
:
: scientist
: 140
: required
: degree,
chef for immigration if both applied for EB3? Fraud? It's all about the
employer's choice.
It is not fraud if one have more than 1 choice, it seems unfair to those who
don't. Wake up! This is not a fair world.
After all, none of us is special regardless what education you had, it is US
think the one with advanced degree are special and useful for the country
and offers a short cut to those people.
have
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: Back to your second question of heirarchy of EB123, as it is totally
: different issue.From national interest point of view, it is natural to have
: a scientist over a chef for immigration.
: In other words, DOL and USCIS may not always be on the same page.
:
: scientist
: 140
: required
: degree,
n*m
19 楼
As I said, a PhD can apply for EB3 chef position, your own choice, who cares
.
But if EB3 chef position requires PhD in the advertisement，it sounds really
fishy, unless it is EB2 chef position.
The keypoint is that since PERM does not specify EB2 or EB3， one can claim
filed wrong category and no punishment follows. That is why people want to
give it a try.
a
who
US
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: ok. Base on EB3 point of view, how will USCIS disqualify a scientist over a
: chef for immigration if both applied for EB3? Fraud? It's all about the
: employer's choice.
: It is not fraud if one have more than 1 choice, it seems unfair to those who
: don't. Wake up! This is not a fair world.
: After all, none of us is special regardless what education you had, it is US
: think the one with advanced degree are special and useful for the country
: and offers a short cut to those people.
:
: have
.
But if EB3 chef position requires PhD in the advertisement，it sounds really
fishy, unless it is EB2 chef position.
The keypoint is that since PERM does not specify EB2 or EB3， one can claim
filed wrong category and no punishment follows. That is why people want to
give it a try.
a
who
US
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: ok. Base on EB3 point of view, how will USCIS disqualify a scientist over a
: chef for immigration if both applied for EB3? Fraud? It's all about the
: employer's choice.
: It is not fraud if one have more than 1 choice, it seems unfair to those who
: don't. Wake up! This is not a fair world.
: After all, none of us is special regardless what education you had, it is US
: think the one with advanced degree are special and useful for the country
: and offers a short cut to those people.
:
: have
k*i
20 楼
吵啥吵，认为可以就上，EB3还能吃了你？认为不可以就等，有人上了EB2前进的还快点
。美国律师搞啥的？就是钻法律漏洞，賺顾客的钱。这么多律师所说可以一试，说明这
个漏洞钻成功的机率很大。我要不是没有机会，也上了。当年要是不换工作多好。。
。美国律师搞啥的？就是钻法律漏洞，賺顾客的钱。这么多律师所说可以一试，说明这
个漏洞钻成功的机率很大。我要不是没有机会，也上了。当年要是不换工作多好。。
n*m
21 楼
刚刚注意到你在另一个楼里和我持的是同一观点。是什么使你转换了观点？
同一职位再次申请EB3 PERM肯定有fraud嫌疑。
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: ok. Base on EB3 point of view, how will USCIS disqualify a scientist over a
: chef for immigration if both applied for EB3? Fraud? It's all about the
: employer's choice.
: It is not fraud if one have more than 1 choice, it seems unfair to those who
: don't. Wake up! This is not a fair world.
: After all, none of us is special regardless what education you had, it is US
: think the one with advanced degree are special and useful for the country
: and offers a short cut to those people.
:
: have
同一职位再次申请EB3 PERM肯定有fraud嫌疑。
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: ok. Base on EB3 point of view, how will USCIS disqualify a scientist over a
: chef for immigration if both applied for EB3? Fraud? It's all about the
: employer's choice.
: It is not fraud if one have more than 1 choice, it seems unfair to those who
: don't. Wake up! This is not a fair world.
: After all, none of us is special regardless what education you had, it is US
: think the one with advanced degree are special and useful for the country
: and offers a short cut to those people.
:
: have
p*s
22 楼
我们公司只给博士申请EB2给硕士申请EB3.
l*n
23 楼
你们公司的硕士赚了
【在 p*s 的大作中提到】
: 我们公司只给博士申请EB2给硕士申请EB3.
【在 p*s 的大作中提到】
: 我们公司只给博士申请EB2给硕士申请EB3.
t*e
24 楼
多重人格，赫赫
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: 刚刚注意到你在另一个楼里和我持的是同一观点。是什么使你转换了观点？
:
: 同一职位再次申请EB3 PERM肯定有fraud嫌疑。
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: 刚刚注意到你在另一个楼里和我持的是同一观点。是什么使你转换了观点？
:
: 同一职位再次申请EB3 PERM肯定有fraud嫌疑。
h*m
25 楼
哈哈，朋友，你误会我了。
我的观点从没改变。
我认为EB2换EB3，不换工作的基础上， 不仅仅是不用办PERM,是根本不能重新办PERM.
一样的职位，前后 两个不同的最低标准，这是作假，故意降低工作标准。DOL不会批的。
EB2现有的PERM,尤其是140批了的，证明DOL和USCIS都认可了你的工作最低标准不低于
本科并且高于本科，就是承认了你的工作本科的人做不了。何必画蛇添足做个新的PERM
test 本科market，如果这样做了，人家会不会认为第一个PERM是假的，成心占抢EB2
名额么：P? 基于同样未改变的信息，那么你再递一份140，申请EB3,工作最低标准不低
于本科, USCIS会怎么审？除非USCIS说一个人不能提出多份申请，或者一个PERM不能提
出多份申请。
关键就是EB visa审核的是最低标准。所以工作职位不低于本科都可以申请EB3,不低于
advance degree申请EB2,不低于更特殊更少见的标准可以申请EB1. 版上有位朋友说的
很对，其实就是为了给“美国高级工作”的工作者的一个特殊通道。
注意是“高级工作”，而不是高级工作者，大家总在吵，EB2觉得比EB3牛X, 是啊，是
牛X啊，美国人定的，EB2获得签证的机会多些，但这只是个签证分类好吧，不要和人挂
钩好吧。。。EB5跑出来说我比EB1还牛X,EB1工作那公司我开的。。笑笑就完了。就象
谁会去比F1和H1谁更牛X呢，签证而已，美国人自己定的，人的价值不是靠职位和学历
证明的，是不?
当然我也只是推理，不过可以肯定，不做PERM不一定算Fraud. 同一职位做了2个PERM就
证明其中一个肯定是假的，一个职位不可能有两个最低标准。见笑了。
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: 刚刚注意到你在另一个楼里和我持的是同一观点。是什么使你转换了观点？
:
: 同一职位再次申请EB3 PERM肯定有fraud嫌疑。
我的观点从没改变。
我认为EB2换EB3，不换工作的基础上， 不仅仅是不用办PERM,是根本不能重新办PERM.
一样的职位，前后 两个不同的最低标准，这是作假，故意降低工作标准。DOL不会批的。
EB2现有的PERM,尤其是140批了的，证明DOL和USCIS都认可了你的工作最低标准不低于
本科并且高于本科，就是承认了你的工作本科的人做不了。何必画蛇添足做个新的PERM
test 本科market，如果这样做了，人家会不会认为第一个PERM是假的，成心占抢EB2
名额么：P? 基于同样未改变的信息，那么你再递一份140，申请EB3,工作最低标准不低
于本科, USCIS会怎么审？除非USCIS说一个人不能提出多份申请，或者一个PERM不能提
出多份申请。
关键就是EB visa审核的是最低标准。所以工作职位不低于本科都可以申请EB3,不低于
advance degree申请EB2,不低于更特殊更少见的标准可以申请EB1. 版上有位朋友说的
很对，其实就是为了给“美国高级工作”的工作者的一个特殊通道。
注意是“高级工作”，而不是高级工作者，大家总在吵，EB2觉得比EB3牛X, 是啊，是
牛X啊，美国人定的，EB2获得签证的机会多些，但这只是个签证分类好吧，不要和人挂
钩好吧。。。EB5跑出来说我比EB1还牛X,EB1工作那公司我开的。。笑笑就完了。就象
谁会去比F1和H1谁更牛X呢，签证而已，美国人自己定的，人的价值不是靠职位和学历
证明的，是不?
当然我也只是推理，不过可以肯定，不做PERM不一定算Fraud. 同一职位做了2个PERM就
证明其中一个肯定是假的，一个职位不可能有两个最低标准。见笑了。
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: 刚刚注意到你在另一个楼里和我持的是同一观点。是什么使你转换了观点？
:
: 同一职位再次申请EB3 PERM肯定有fraud嫌疑。
f*u
26 楼
.
的。
这个不对。PERM 针对的是“未来”职位，虽然一般公司申请的时候默认当前职位就是
未来职位，这样 I-485 时只要出个证明“这个人已经在从事这份工作了，而且拿到绿
卡后会继续从事”就可以了。同样，只要律师包装合理，重新做一个新的“未来”职位
，走另外的标准当然也是可以的。但雇主是否愿意配合就是另一回事了。
PERM
EB2
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: 哈哈，朋友，你误会我了。
: 我的观点从没改变。
: 我认为EB2换EB3，不换工作的基础上， 不仅仅是不用办PERM,是根本不能重新办PERM.
: 一样的职位，前后 两个不同的最低标准，这是作假，故意降低工作标准。DOL不会批的。
: EB2现有的PERM,尤其是140批了的，证明DOL和USCIS都认可了你的工作最低标准不低于
: 本科并且高于本科，就是承认了你的工作本科的人做不了。何必画蛇添足做个新的PERM
: test 本科market，如果这样做了，人家会不会认为第一个PERM是假的，成心占抢EB2
: 名额么：P? 基于同样未改变的信息，那么你再递一份140，申请EB3,工作最低标准不低
: 于本科, USCIS会怎么审？除非USCIS说一个人不能提出多份申请，或者一个PERM不能提
: 出多份申请。
h*m
27 楼
I meant a scientist took a job required minimum PHD degree and applied for
EB3 i-140. He will wait together for the visa number with another random guy
with high school diploma who accepted a chef position.
How USCIS will disqualify this scientist for EB3? A high school diploma can
apply for EB3, why not a PHD?
cares
really
claim
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: As I said, a PhD can apply for EB3 chef position, your own choice, who cares
: .
: But if EB3 chef position requires PhD in the advertisement，it sounds really
: fishy, unless it is EB2 chef position.
: The keypoint is that since PERM does not specify EB2 or EB3， one can claim
: filed wrong category and no punishment follows. That is why people want to
: give it a try.
:
: a
: who
EB3 i-140. He will wait together for the visa number with another random guy
with high school diploma who accepted a chef position.
How USCIS will disqualify this scientist for EB3? A high school diploma can
apply for EB3, why not a PHD?
cares
really
claim
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: As I said, a PhD can apply for EB3 chef position, your own choice, who cares
: .
: But if EB3 chef position requires PhD in the advertisement，it sounds really
: fishy, unless it is EB2 chef position.
: The keypoint is that since PERM does not specify EB2 or EB3， one can claim
: filed wrong category and no punishment follows. That is why people want to
: give it a try.
:
: a
: who
h*m
28 楼
我记得相关网站上看到，DOL不会接受一个公司为同一个收益人提交多份PERM申请，起
码不会轻易接受，两个职位要求要很不相同。没细研究，哈哈
如果按“未来”职位来说的话，所有在原公司EB3转EB2的同志们都可以用EB3的140递
485了，只要他们愿意回到原来的职位上了。是不？
【在 f**u 的大作中提到】
:
: .
: 的。
: 这个不对。PERM 针对的是“未来”职位，虽然一般公司申请的时候默认当前职位就是
: 未来职位，这样 I-485 时只要出个证明“这个人已经在从事这份工作了，而且拿到绿
: 卡后会继续从事”就可以了。同样，只要律师包装合理，重新做一个新的“未来”职位
: ，走另外的标准当然也是可以的。但雇主是否愿意配合就是另一回事了。
: PERM
: EB2
码不会轻易接受，两个职位要求要很不相同。没细研究，哈哈
如果按“未来”职位来说的话，所有在原公司EB3转EB2的同志们都可以用EB3的140递
485了，只要他们愿意回到原来的职位上了。是不？
【在 f**u 的大作中提到】
:
: .
: 的。
: 这个不对。PERM 针对的是“未来”职位，虽然一般公司申请的时候默认当前职位就是
: 未来职位，这样 I-485 时只要出个证明“这个人已经在从事这份工作了，而且拿到绿
: 卡后会继续从事”就可以了。同样，只要律师包装合理，重新做一个新的“未来”职位
: ，走另外的标准当然也是可以的。但雇主是否愿意配合就是另一回事了。
: PERM
: EB2
f*u
29 楼
是的，只要他们愿意，而且公司也愿意。
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: 我记得相关网站上看到，DOL不会接受一个公司为同一个收益人提交多份PERM申请，起
: 码不会轻易接受，两个职位要求要很不相同。没细研究，哈哈
: 如果按“未来”职位来说的话，所有在原公司EB3转EB2的同志们都可以用EB3的140递
: 485了，只要他们愿意回到原来的职位上了。是不？
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: 我记得相关网站上看到，DOL不会接受一个公司为同一个收益人提交多份PERM申请，起
: 码不会轻易接受，两个职位要求要很不相同。没细研究，哈哈
: 如果按“未来”职位来说的话，所有在原公司EB3转EB2的同志们都可以用EB3的140递
: 485了，只要他们愿意回到原来的职位上了。是不？
n*m
30 楼
你别说，还真的有人去这么问HR了，回复是如果愿意改低级的职称就行。
再回你前面的贴，我想我们大概说岔了。如果我没有理解错你，你说得是如果一个PhD
和一个厨师都申请EB3 I-140，USCIS会批谁。我的回答是两个都批，因为他们各自是各
自的职位，相互间无关。但是如果是厨师申请的是EB2大厨, 反而PhD申请的是EB3大厨
，对不起，优先处理那个厨师，次优处理PhD。
我说的另一个情况，外国PhD和美国BS都申请了同一个职位，DOL一定会否掉PERM。
所以你说的都是外国人的情况，我说的是一外一美，我们在鸡同鸭讲。
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: 我记得相关网站上看到，DOL不会接受一个公司为同一个收益人提交多份PERM申请，起
: 码不会轻易接受，两个职位要求要很不相同。没细研究，哈哈
: 如果按“未来”职位来说的话，所有在原公司EB3转EB2的同志们都可以用EB3的140递
: 485了，只要他们愿意回到原来的职位上了。是不？
再回你前面的贴，我想我们大概说岔了。如果我没有理解错你，你说得是如果一个PhD
和一个厨师都申请EB3 I-140，USCIS会批谁。我的回答是两个都批，因为他们各自是各
自的职位，相互间无关。但是如果是厨师申请的是EB2大厨, 反而PhD申请的是EB3大厨
，对不起，优先处理那个厨师，次优处理PhD。
我说的另一个情况，外国PhD和美国BS都申请了同一个职位，DOL一定会否掉PERM。
所以你说的都是外国人的情况，我说的是一外一美，我们在鸡同鸭讲。
【在 h*****m 的大作中提到】
: 我记得相关网站上看到，DOL不会接受一个公司为同一个收益人提交多份PERM申请，起
: 码不会轻易接受，两个职位要求要很不相同。没细研究，哈哈
: 如果按“未来”职位来说的话，所有在原公司EB3转EB2的同志们都可以用EB3的140递
: 485了，只要他们愿意回到原来的职位上了。是不？
s*l
31 楼
看起来很多律师都是认为再交一个eb3 的140是可以的，估计2或3个月后就知道结果了
h*m
32 楼
FUWU,很佩服你，积极给大家提供信息和分析，我用的大部分是猜的，你都是有理有据
的，厉害。
我又要开始“胡说”了， 哈哈。觉得“合理包装”这个词挺讽刺的。需要“包装”的
都是擦边球，为什么“合理”呢，是因为有成功的案例和成功的把握。
其实有多少人，包括我自己，都是被律师“合理包装”成了EB2呢？所有EB2的工作真的
只有Master才能做么？没人怀疑过可行性，因为有人做过。
侥幸通过了，超过了EB3的标准，现在要摘下面具了，看看自己是不是符合EB3标准。大
家都怕了。。怕啥呢，怕律师这次没有“包装”不“合理”，为啥呢？因为大家普遍接
受了只有“包装”过的才“合理”。
解决办法呢？重做PERM，让律师按照有把握的方式再“包装”一次，律师能保证这次“
合理”么？
“胡说”结束，见笑了。
其实就算规规矩矩递交所有材料，每个案子批不批都是USCIS定的，说破了嘴皮都是在
争论可行性和风险，真正的结果也是要实践之后才知道。但是我觉得这和Fraud绝对沾
不上边。律师“包装”也有失败的时候，失败了怎么样呢？会被说Fraud么？律师会拍
胸脯跟你说，我给你再“包装”“合理”点，不信这次骗不了他小样的。。。。
【在 f**u 的大作中提到】
: 是的，只要他们愿意，而且公司也愿意。
的，厉害。
我又要开始“胡说”了， 哈哈。觉得“合理包装”这个词挺讽刺的。需要“包装”的
都是擦边球，为什么“合理”呢，是因为有成功的案例和成功的把握。
其实有多少人，包括我自己，都是被律师“合理包装”成了EB2呢？所有EB2的工作真的
只有Master才能做么？没人怀疑过可行性，因为有人做过。
侥幸通过了，超过了EB3的标准，现在要摘下面具了，看看自己是不是符合EB3标准。大
家都怕了。。怕啥呢，怕律师这次没有“包装”不“合理”，为啥呢？因为大家普遍接
受了只有“包装”过的才“合理”。
解决办法呢？重做PERM，让律师按照有把握的方式再“包装”一次，律师能保证这次“
合理”么？
“胡说”结束，见笑了。
其实就算规规矩矩递交所有材料，每个案子批不批都是USCIS定的，说破了嘴皮都是在
争论可行性和风险，真正的结果也是要实践之后才知道。但是我觉得这和Fraud绝对沾
不上边。律师“包装”也有失败的时候，失败了怎么样呢？会被说Fraud么？律师会拍
胸脯跟你说，我给你再“包装”“合理”点，不信这次骗不了他小样的。。。。
【在 f**u 的大作中提到】
: 是的，只要他们愿意，而且公司也愿意。
h*m
33 楼
我语文不好，英文更不好，哈哈，没说清楚。
我的意思是这样，一个工作要造火箭上火星，必须PHD; 一个工作要炒菜,高中学历加经
验。
假设两个人都申请了PERM, 不造假的话两个PERM打广告后算是都过了。
这时候两个人都要申请EB3.
那么USCIS会不会要求造火箭的改一改工作要求，问一问你为啥不给美国本科生一些机
会，本科生就没有能造火箭的？会么？ 不会，但USCIS会问，亲，要不要申请EB1，我
们有名额，不用排队哦。PHD曰，俺娘说了，我们都应老老实实做人，不能夹塞，我就
要EB3，我要和其他人公平竞争绿卡名额。。。。。
你的工作性质决定了你如何test market，而不是你要申请的visa类别或你本身的学历
去决定。
选择什么visa 类别是公司决定的，只要条件符合，选择对自己公司有利的怎么能被定
性为Fraud呢？谁不会这么选呢？
PhD
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: 你别说，还真的有人去这么问HR了，回复是如果愿意改低级的职称就行。
: 再回你前面的贴，我想我们大概说岔了。如果我没有理解错你，你说得是如果一个PhD
: 和一个厨师都申请EB3 I-140，USCIS会批谁。我的回答是两个都批，因为他们各自是各
: 自的职位，相互间无关。但是如果是厨师申请的是EB2大厨, 反而PhD申请的是EB3大厨
: ，对不起，优先处理那个厨师，次优处理PhD。
: 我说的另一个情况，外国PhD和美国BS都申请了同一个职位，DOL一定会否掉PERM。
: 所以你说的都是外国人的情况，我说的是一外一美，我们在鸡同鸭讲。
我的意思是这样，一个工作要造火箭上火星，必须PHD; 一个工作要炒菜,高中学历加经
验。
假设两个人都申请了PERM, 不造假的话两个PERM打广告后算是都过了。
这时候两个人都要申请EB3.
那么USCIS会不会要求造火箭的改一改工作要求，问一问你为啥不给美国本科生一些机
会，本科生就没有能造火箭的？会么？ 不会，但USCIS会问，亲，要不要申请EB1，我
们有名额，不用排队哦。PHD曰，俺娘说了，我们都应老老实实做人，不能夹塞，我就
要EB3，我要和其他人公平竞争绿卡名额。。。。。
你的工作性质决定了你如何test market，而不是你要申请的visa类别或你本身的学历
去决定。
选择什么visa 类别是公司决定的，只要条件符合，选择对自己公司有利的怎么能被定
性为Fraud呢？谁不会这么选呢？
PhD
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: 你别说，还真的有人去这么问HR了，回复是如果愿意改低级的职称就行。
: 再回你前面的贴，我想我们大概说岔了。如果我没有理解错你，你说得是如果一个PhD
: 和一个厨师都申请EB3 I-140，USCIS会批谁。我的回答是两个都批，因为他们各自是各
: 自的职位，相互间无关。但是如果是厨师申请的是EB2大厨, 反而PhD申请的是EB3大厨
: ，对不起，优先处理那个厨师，次优处理PhD。
: 我说的另一个情况，外国PhD和美国BS都申请了同一个职位，DOL一定会否掉PERM。
: 所以你说的都是外国人的情况，我说的是一外一美，我们在鸡同鸭讲。
h*6
34 楼
如果换工作，重新办eb3 PERM 140，能不能用以前eb2的priority date呢？
s*l
35 楼
应该没必要吧，现在重新perm，排期起码都14年中了，你EB2也差不多快了吧
f*n
36 楼
我们公司用的就是这个David Ware所做绿卡。如果你不了解David请不要乱说。基本上
移民律师界David是非常权威了。公司的HR说几十年和David合作的经验来看，各种和移
民有关的事情没有100%正确的情况下，David从来不会乱说或者打擦边球。很多事情比
如有一丁点可能fail的，David都不让自己的客户去试。看来这次真的是100%可以这么
做他才敢公布出来。
I-
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: The second paragraph is totally a piece of BS and against all logic behind
: the purpose of PERM. I doubt if any reasonable person can say such thing
: except lawyers, as they only care about money.
: If a foreignor uses EB2 requirement to get rid of americans who do not
: qualify for EB2 but may otherwise qualify for EB3, and then apply for EB3 I-
: 140, pretedding no americans qualify for EB3, it is nothing but a fraud,
: period.
: However, I do buy the argument that "Filing the third preference petition
: does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does
: not void or nullify it." Since there is no penalty, why not give it a try
移民律师界David是非常权威了。公司的HR说几十年和David合作的经验来看，各种和移
民有关的事情没有100%正确的情况下，David从来不会乱说或者打擦边球。很多事情比
如有一丁点可能fail的，David都不让自己的客户去试。看来这次真的是100%可以这么
做他才敢公布出来。
I-
【在 n***m 的大作中提到】
: The second paragraph is totally a piece of BS and against all logic behind
: the purpose of PERM. I doubt if any reasonable person can say such thing
: except lawyers, as they only care about money.
: If a foreignor uses EB2 requirement to get rid of americans who do not
: qualify for EB2 but may otherwise qualify for EB3, and then apply for EB3 I-
: 140, pretedding no americans qualify for EB3, it is nothing but a fraud,
: period.
: However, I do buy the argument that "Filing the third preference petition
: does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does
: not void or nullify it." Since there is no penalty, why not give it a try
P*6
37 楼
有人真地降级了吗？真地降级成功了吗？新年快乐！
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