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software development methodologies

software development methodologies# Java - 爪哇娇娃

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

1 楼

大家team里面都用什么software development methodologies?
有个朋友team里面scrum，效率奇高，但是他累惨了，
扛了一年受不了，干脆辞职了。
另外，你们都多久一个release? 我们基本上是quarterly

g*g2009-03-04 08:03

2 楼

Scrum, it works well if most/all members are senior, very few
documentation work is needed, late design change is not a problem..
It's usually a month a release for me, I keep switching
between 4-5 projects, :-(

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: 大家team里面都用什么software development methodologies?
: 有个朋友team里面scrum，效率奇高，但是他累惨了，
: 扛了一年受不了，干脆辞职了。
: 另外，你们都多久一个release? 我们基本上是quarterly

A*o2009-03-04 08:03

3 楼

scrum sucks your life force out for more codes.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

A*o2009-03-04 08:03

4 楼

we did biweek before. you don't want to know.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Scrum, it works well if most/all members are senior, very few
: documentation work is needed, late design change is not a problem..
: It's usually a month a release for me, I keep switching
: between 4-5 projects, :-(

g*g2009-03-04 08:03

5 楼

Well, I know better. I had this demo project last year, my job was to
add 1-2 customer requested enhancements plus bug fix by the end of the
day, every day. It lasted about 3 months before we cut the deal.

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: we did biweek before. you don't want to know.

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

6 楼

how do you have customer's involvement when you scrum,
if customer is external.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

g*g2009-03-04 08:03

7 楼

You set up an environment for external customer, they review it, give
comment, and you change your design and make it avaiable for next
build.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: how do you have customer's involvement when you scrum,
: if customer is external.

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

8 楼

how does complex system development work?
such as enterprise software?
given the complexity of a new release, longer release is reasonable.

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: we did biweek before. you don't want to know.

A*o2009-03-04 08:03

9 楼

you just keep releasing the incomplete system,
and break down the next milestone into smaller pieces
that one can finish in at most a couple of days.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: how does complex system development work?
: such as enterprise software?
: given the complexity of a new release, longer release is reasonable.

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

10 楼

We are now doing the dev-->QA-->UAT (user acceptance)-->Prod release cycle.
with this approach, I do see the problem that it's too late when
customers say "shoooot, this is not what I want", even if we showed
them a prototype.
on the other hand, what worry me about your approach is,
since this environment is setting up during dev, it's buggy.
it might be so frustrating for customers that they don't focus
on the overall functionality, workflow, look&feel. rather,
they complain this system is not

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: You set up an environment for external customer, they review it, give
: comment, and you change your design and make it avaiable for next
: build.

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

11 楼

what do you mean by "incomplete system"?
in many cases, an incomplete system is not usable,
and you can't release it.
can oracle release an incomplete oracle db that
doesn't support 'delete'?

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: you just keep releasing the incomplete system,
: and break down the next milestone into smaller pieces
: that one can finish in at most a couple of days.

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

12 楼

it's painful to work on 2+ branches at same time.
my eclipse (not MyEclipse) has some odd problem...
sometimes when I create a new project,
the new one doesn't allow remote debugging.
so i had to copy the old one to the new one and check out the new branch...

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Well, I know better. I had this demo project last year, my job was to
: add 1-2 customer requested enhancements plus bug fix by the end of the
: day, every day. It lasted about 3 months before we cut the deal.

g*g2009-03-04 08:03

13 楼

Always check out a different branch as a different project,
it saves all the trouble.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: it's painful to work on 2+ branches at same time.
: my eclipse (not MyEclipse) has some odd problem...
: sometimes when I create a new project,
: the new one doesn't allow remote debugging.
: so i had to copy the old one to the new one and check out the new branch...

g*g2009-03-04 08:03

14 楼

Sure it's buggy at first, and that's why you have to fix it.
The principle is to make it run first, then you add all the
nice features gradually. So called iterative development.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: We are now doing the dev-->QA-->UAT (user acceptance)-->Prod release cycle.
: with this approach, I do see the problem that it's too late when
: customers say "shoooot, this is not what I want", even if we showed
: them a prototype.
: on the other hand, what worry me about your approach is,
: since this environment is setting up during dev, it's buggy.
: it might be so frustrating for customers that they don't focus
: on the overall functionality, workflow, look&feel. rather,
: they complain this system is not

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

15 楼

of cuz different branch as a different project...
right now I am organizing my eclipse this way:
one workspace includes a project for the branch,
and a project for 3rd party (duplicated in every workspace)
I'm thinking of having one workspace to contain one 3rdparty project,
and projects for branches... but too lazy

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Always check out a different branch as a different project,
: it saves all the trouble.

A*o2009-03-04 08:03

16 楼

not usable doesn't equal to not demo-able
and you can still do internal releases to some test/stage platforms

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: what do you mean by "incomplete system"?
: in many cases, an incomplete system is not usable,
: and you can't release it.
: can oracle release an incomplete oracle db that
: doesn't support 'delete'?

A*o2009-03-04 08:03

17 楼

i guess some pr work is needed to encourage user to test and get focused.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

18 楼

seems u and goodbug have some good experience with
releasing incomplete experience...
poor me, never worked in such project/release

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: not usable doesn't equal to not demo-able
: and you can still do internal releases to some test/stage platforms

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

19 楼

in ur company, is there such a pr person?
your CEO? //winkwink

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: i guess some pr work is needed to encourage user to test and get focused.

A*o2009-03-04 08:03

20 楼

obviously, you are the man. lol

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: in ur company, is there such a pr person?
: your CEO? //winkwink

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

21 楼

your company has a veli cool 'lean operation' model...

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: obviously, you are the man. lol

g*g2009-03-04 08:03

22 楼

Believe me, you don't want to work in such project.
Traditional waterfall model makes it hard for boss
to push you. If the project last 3 months, you can
finish it in one and pretend working on it for the
next two.

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

: seems u and goodbug have some good experience with
: releasing incomplete experience...
: poor me, never worked in such project/release

b*y2009-03-04 08:03

23 楼

my previous proj took my around 4 mons time coding,
plus 1 month coding of my 3-member indian team under my supervision...
it was quite stressful too...
of cuz, this show how bad our project was defined,
and how difficult it is to maintain our system.
i did spend quite some time to throw away previous design and do a
re-design. the benefit is, we don't have mysterious or tough bugs now.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Believe me, you don't want to work in such project.
: Traditional waterfall model makes it hard for boss
: to push you. If the project last 3 months, you can
: finish it in one and pretend working on it for the
: next two.

m*t2009-03-04 08:03

24 楼

No no, _we_ want to know, for a laugh. _You_ don't want to remember.
;-)

【在 A**o 的大作中提到】

: we did biweek before. you don't want to know.

m*t2009-03-04 08:03

25 楼

Usually you only have to make sure the "happy path" works,
which shouldn't be too hard if your developers know what they
are doing.
I guess the idea is that, these days, the cost of "oops, that's
what you meant! well, too late for that now!" significantly
outweighs the cost of a quick and dirty prototype.
That's more a communication issue from my experience.
You just need to make sure they understand that it's just
a preview. (And not the perpetually-in-beta gmail kind of
preview)

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】

m*t2009-03-04 08:03

26 楼

Not when you use a VCS that allows you to switch branches
in place. For example, both svn and git support sync'ing
an existing work directory with any branch (or an arbitrary
point in history). And they are designed so that those operations
are very fast (or extremely fast in git's case).

【在 b******y 的大作中提到】