Startup offer negotiation - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

Startup offer negotiation# JobHunting - 待字闺中

l*e2014-11-15 08:11

1 楼

本人10年+经验老码农（惭愧阿）。Got an offer from an early stage startup (
still in stealthy mode, had many alpha releases, plan to do beta release
soon). 我将是大约第16个雇员。160k基本工资，0.25%股票。猎头说可以讨价还价。
那我应该给猎头什么样的目标工资和股票？180k, 0.5%? 请有经验的大牛们支支着。
另在这之前接了一家大公司的卧佛，怎样拒绝才能将人品损伤降到最低？
多谢！

c*z2014-11-15 08:11

2 楼

Assume that they want you badly, then:
Tell them that the salary is too low, however you can be more flexible if
you join as Founder rather than employee.
Ask for the following terms:
1. Founder equity (rather than useless employee stock options). To calculate
how much, use market salary (i.e. the other offer, say 260k total) minus
the base, this is how much you sacrifice each year. Multiply that by 4,
divide by the total evaluation, say 10M, then you should get at least 4%
because you are to invest 400k in the following 4 years.
2. Ask for VP title, so that it will be difficult for them to fire you later
(and harder for them to make you report to some nonsense VP they invite in
later).
3. Ask for mutual non-disclosure and non-disparage, so that they can't say
anything bad about you in the future (startups are notorious for backdoor
reference checks - calling people you didn't list as references).
4. Good faith termination. If they need to let you go, they must give 2
months' notice.
Indeed, read Mike Church's blog on startups.

j*w2014-11-15 08:11

3 楼

大牛说的实在！
[在 chaoz (晨钟暮鼓) 的大作中提到：]
：Assume that they want you badly, then:
：
：...........

s*w2014-11-15 08:11

4 楼

mark

n*h2014-11-15 08:11

5 楼

Have you ever started or even worked for a startup? This won't happen for a
rank-and-file employee in a million years.

calculate
later

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: Assume that they want you badly, then:
: Tell them that the salary is too low, however you can be more flexible if
: you join as Founder rather than employee.
: Ask for the following terms:
: 1. Founder equity (rather than useless employee stock options). To calculate
: how much, use market salary (i.e. the other offer, say 260k total) minus
: the base, this is how much you sacrifice each year. Multiply that by 4,
: divide by the total evaluation, say 10M, then you should get at least 4%
: because you are to invest 400k in the following 4 years.
: 2. Ask for VP title, so that it will be difficult for them to fire you later

n*y2014-11-15 08:11

6 楼

How many engineers does the company have now? 0.5% is possible but will be
difficult, try ask $200K, it is much easier to get higher salary than equity
.

【在 l**********e 的大作中提到】

: 本人10年+经验老码农（惭愧阿）。Got an offer from an early stage startup (
: still in stealthy mode, had many alpha releases, plan to do beta release
: soon). 我将是大约第16个雇员。160k基本工资，0.25%股票。猎头说可以讨价还价。
: 那我应该给猎头什么样的目标工资和股票？180k, 0.5%? 请有经验的大牛们支支着。
: 另在这之前接了一家大公司的卧佛，怎样拒绝才能将人品损伤降到最低？
: 多谢！

l*n2014-11-15 08:11

7 楼

前10个员工或者能带来质变的员工可能，否则感觉offended

calculate
later

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: Assume that they want you badly, then:
: Tell them that the salary is too low, however you can be more flexible if
: you join as Founder rather than employee.
: Ask for the following terms:
: 1. Founder equity (rather than useless employee stock options). To calculate
: how much, use market salary (i.e. the other offer, say 260k total) minus
: the base, this is how much you sacrifice each year. Multiply that by 4,
: divide by the total evaluation, say 10M, then you should get at least 4%
: because you are to invest 400k in the following 4 years.
: 2. Ask for VP title, so that it will be difficult for them to fire you later

r*o2014-11-15 08:11

8 楼

Founder Title 或者VP不是那么容易给的吧？？有点too simle sometimes naive了

s*x2014-11-15 08:11

9 楼

我听说1％就是CTO 或VP level 了。for startup, usually high salary is hard,
most people trade pay cut to get higher stock shares.
Do more research before you join as most startups will fail in one or two
years. Are you the lucky one? Is this the right boat?

f*p2014-11-15 08:11

10 楼

根据本人的经验，这个建议最靠谱。

equity

【在 n****y 的大作中提到】

:
: How many engineers does the company have now? 0.5% is possible but will be
: difficult, try ask $200K, it is much easier to get higher salary than equity
: .

f*p2014-11-15 08:11

11 楼

chaoz，你前面这个假设太重要了（Assume that they want you badly），Mike
Church是个顶级牛人，否则16个人的公司，要到前两个干货的可能性太低了。

calculate
later

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: Assume that they want you badly, then:
: Tell them that the salary is too low, however you can be more flexible if
: you join as Founder rather than employee.
: Ask for the following terms:
: 1. Founder equity (rather than useless employee stock options). To calculate
: how much, use market salary (i.e. the other offer, say 260k total) minus
: the base, this is how much you sacrifice each year. Multiply that by 4,
: divide by the total evaluation, say 10M, then you should get at least 4%
: because you are to invest 400k in the following 4 years.
: 2. Ask for VP title, so that it will be difficult for them to fire you later

w*z2014-11-15 08:11

12 楼

都十六号员工，怎么可能是founder?

【在 f**********p 的大作中提到】

: chaoz，你前面这个假设太重要了（Assume that they want you badly），Mike
: Church是个顶级牛人，否则16个人的公司，要到前两个干货的可能性太低了。
:
: calculate
: later

R*E2014-11-15 08:11

13 楼

大牛啊！膜拜

【在 l**********e 的大作中提到】

: 本人10年+经验老码农（惭愧阿）。Got an offer from an early stage startup (
: still in stealthy mode, had many alpha releases, plan to do beta release
: soon). 我将是大约第16个雇员。160k基本工资，0.25%股票。猎头说可以讨价还价。
: 那我应该给猎头什么样的目标工资和股票？180k, 0.5%? 请有经验的大牛们支支着。
: 另在这之前接了一家大公司的卧佛，怎样拒绝才能将人品损伤降到最低？
: 多谢！

l*e2014-11-15 08:11

14 楼

多谢大家的建议。公司目前有八九个码工。I don't think they want me that bad.
So I did not got for VP/founder equity.（也许下次技术上更过硬/面对更早期的公
司吧）。
难忘10 和飞行皮卡的建议更接近我当前的情况：通过猎头和CEO交流后新卧佛是一八
零k加半个百分点的股份。准备上贼船去赌一把了。
BTW, 卧佛上只有股票数，并没有百分比，不会有问题吧？

m*o2014-11-15 08:11

15 楼

offer上永远都是股票数，因为每进来一个新员工，或新一轮融资都会导致股票稀释，
百分比会不断缩小。。。

【在 l**********e 的大作中提到】

: 多谢大家的建议。公司目前有八九个码工。I don't think they want me that bad.
: So I did not got for VP/founder equity.（也许下次技术上更过硬/面对更早期的公
: 司吧）。
: 难忘10 和飞行皮卡的建议更接近我当前的情况：通过猎头和CEO交流后新卧佛是一八
: 零k加半个百分点的股份。准备上贼船去赌一把了。
: BTW, 卧佛上只有股票数，并没有百分比，不会有问题吧？

c*z2014-11-15 08:11

16 楼

yep, I assumed that is the case for LZ :)

【在 l******n 的大作中提到】

: 前10个员工或者能带来质变的员工可能，否则感觉offended
:
: calculate
: later

c*z2014-11-15 08:11

17 楼

I agree. :)
I think we need an union to negotiate these collectively. LZ is taking
substantial risk and pay cut, and need to be offered substantial equity to
be fair.

【在 f**********p 的大作中提到】

: chaoz，你前面这个假设太重要了（Assume that they want you badly），Mike
: Church是个顶级牛人，否则16个人的公司，要到前两个干货的可能性太低了。
:
: calculate
: later

c*z2014-11-15 08:11

18 楼

Is it ok to share the current valuation of the company?
For the large firm, just say family reasons.
Bless!

【在 l**********e 的大作中提到】

: 多谢大家的建议。公司目前有八九个码工。I don't think they want me that bad.
: So I did not got for VP/founder equity.（也许下次技术上更过硬/面对更早期的公
: 司吧）。
: 难忘10 和飞行皮卡的建议更接近我当前的情况：通过猎头和CEO交流后新卧佛是一八
: 零k加半个百分点的股份。准备上贼船去赌一把了。
: BTW, 卧佛上只有股票数，并没有百分比，不会有问题吧？

I*y2014-11-15 08:11

19 楼

握手。我目前也面临同样的尴尬，在一个稳定的大公司offer和一个小startup之间摇摆
。大公司一年拿二十多万稳稳的，年景好三十万也有可能，超好的福利和保险，养老的
最佳选择。小公司的工资与大公司差不多，每年也发两次奖金，不过福利和保险就不行
了，目前series B，已经有了70人左右的员工，但做的云端技术很时髦，一堆风投，钱
不少，目前是华尔街的热点。真不知道应不应该赌。唉，有选择也是一种痛苦！
恭喜你已经做出了选择。

【在 l**********e 的大作中提到】

: 本人10年+经验老码农（惭愧阿）。Got an offer from an early stage startup (
: still in stealthy mode, had many alpha releases, plan to do beta release
: soon). 我将是大约第16个雇员。160k基本工资，0.25%股票。猎头说可以讨价还价。
: 那我应该给猎头什么样的目标工资和股票？180k, 0.5%? 请有经验的大牛们支支着。
: 另在这之前接了一家大公司的卧佛，怎样拒绝才能将人品损伤降到最低？
: 多谢！

w*p2014-11-15 08:11

20 楼

感觉这个offer靠谱，可以赌赌了。

【在 l**********e 的大作中提到】

: 多谢大家的建议。公司目前有八九个码工。I don't think they want me that bad.
: So I did not got for VP/founder equity.（也许下次技术上更过硬/面对更早期的公
: 司吧）。
: 难忘10 和飞行皮卡的建议更接近我当前的情况：通过猎头和CEO交流后新卧佛是一八
: 零k加半个百分点的股份。准备上贼船去赌一把了。
: BTW, 卧佛上只有股票数，并没有百分比，不会有问题吧？

s*i2014-11-15 08:11

21 楼

风投越多越好！人家真钱都上了，切肉更疼，傍上问题不大

【在 I*********y 的大作中提到】

: 握手。我目前也面临同样的尴尬，在一个稳定的大公司offer和一个小startup之间摇摆
: 。大公司一年拿二十多万稳稳的，年景好三十万也有可能，超好的福利和保险，养老的
: 最佳选择。小公司的工资与大公司差不多，每年也发两次奖金，不过福利和保险就不行
: 了，目前series B，已经有了70人左右的员工，但做的云端技术很时髦，一堆风投，钱
: 不少，目前是华尔街的热点。真不知道应不应该赌。唉，有选择也是一种痛苦！
: 恭喜你已经做出了选择。

i*t2014-11-15 08:11

22 楼

就是打工的做要工资和股票
co-founder vp 之类的肯定没戏

c*z2014-11-15 08:11

23 楼

http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/06/23/heres-the-proper