请问读IP学校排名仍很重要吗？ - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

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请问读IP学校排名仍很重要吗？

请问读IP学校排名仍很重要吗？# Law - 律师事务所

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

1 楼

有心想申请读IP，一直听说法学院的名次特别重要，好像大家嚷嚷着都是至少要读top
20的。当然，能读到最好。但我也听说对于专利法律师，学校名气不象做一般辩护律师
那么重要（我是想做写写弄弄的，不想去上庭侃侃而谈）。另一方面，学校差一点，同样
的LSAT考分是不是拿到至少部分奖学金的可能就会大一点，而对于我这样的穷学生，这个
还是很有吸引力的。
所以想问一下大家的想法，你们是怎么看待学校或者专业排名的。顺便问一句，大家都是
准备或者已经自己花钱（或者贷款）读law的吗？
谢谢你的讨论和建议。

a*a2003-09-12 07:09

2 楼

So many people going to law school now. Is it really easy for non-GC holders
to find a job?

【在 w*******y 的大作中提到】

: 有心想申请读IP，一直听说法学院的名次特别重要，好像大家嚷嚷着都是至少要读top
: 20的。当然，能读到最好。但我也听说对于专利法律师，学校名气不象做一般辩护律师
: 那么重要（我是想做写写弄弄的，不想去上庭侃侃而谈）。另一方面，学校差一点，同样
: 的LSAT考分是不是拿到至少部分奖学金的可能就会大一点，而对于我这样的穷学生，这个
: 还是很有吸引力的。
: 所以想问一下大家的想法，你们是怎么看待学校或者专业排名的。顺便问一句，大家都是
: 准备或者已经自己花钱（或者贷款）读law的吗？
: 谢谢你的讨论和建议。

l*y2003-09-12 07:09

3 楼

我看过一篇很长的文章讨论你说的这个问题
核心观点就是上法学院,一定要上好的,不要管什么IP不IP
那个基本都是在以后工作中间培养的
文中举了大量的例子,有就业的,有关于所谓IP突出的那些JD program分析的
我是被说服了

【在 w*******y 的大作中提到】

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

4 楼

从你的结论来看这篇文章很有说服力的，请问还能找得到吗？
不过据我所知，前两年学的东西都是一样的，到了第三年才开始选择专业课。
我相信不同的学校学生毕业的水平是会有区别，但是市场呢，是不是也会象选择
其它律师一样picky?
还有，法学院真贵啊，今天才知道我所在的学校一个学期需要学费一万多。。。搞得我想
读part time了，至少还有现在专业的奖学金。（不过估计我们系里是不会同意的）

有心想申请读IP，一直听说法学院的名次特别重要，好像大家嚷嚷着都是至少要读top
律师
同样
这个
都是

【在 l*****y 的大作中提到】

: 我看过一篇很长的文章讨论你说的这个问题
: 核心观点就是上法学院,一定要上好的,不要管什么IP不IP
: 那个基本都是在以后工作中间培养的
: 文中举了大量的例子,有就业的,有关于所谓IP突出的那些JD program分析的
: 我是被说服了

l*y2003-09-12 07:09

5 楼

文章,我google到的,现在找不到了,抱歉
不过根据前面大家的讨论,还有我看到的例子
要做IP关键的还是你的tech background
和JD program是否重视IP好像关系基本没有
JD主要应该还是培养你的法律思维写作方面的素质

【在 w*******y 的大作中提到】

: 从你的结论来看这篇文章很有说服力的，请问还能找得到吗？
: 不过据我所知，前两年学的东西都是一样的，到了第三年才开始选择专业课。
: 我相信不同的学校学生毕业的水平是会有区别，但是市场呢，是不是也会象选择
: 其它律师一样picky?
: 还有，法学院真贵啊，今天才知道我所在的学校一个学期需要学费一万多。。。搞得我想
: 读part time了，至少还有现在专业的奖学金。（不过估计我们系里是不会同意的）
:
: 有心想申请读IP，一直听说法学院的名次特别重要，好像大家嚷嚷着都是至少要读top
: 律师
: 同样

o*e2003-09-12 07:09

6 楼

Case 1: Bio/CS/EE/Chem PhD, 1 yr of patent drafting experience, passed the
patent bar, law school ranking top 30
Case 2: Bio/CS/EE/Chem BS or MS, no patent experience, never looked at patent
bar, law school ranking top 10
If you are the hiring partner, which one will you hire for $120K??
Rationale: In IP, $$=Experience+Technical Expertise+Law School Ranking. If
you are short on one, you have to trump it with the other two. If you are
short on two, you have to really really pump up the last one

【在 l*****y 的大作中提到】

: 文章,我google到的,现在找不到了,抱歉
: 不过根据前面大家的讨论,还有我看到的例子
: 要做IP关键的还是你的tech background
: 和JD program是否重视IP好像关系基本没有
: JD主要应该还是培养你的法律思维写作方面的素质

j*d2003-09-12 07:09

7 楼

Case 1: PhD 6 yrs + 1 yr experience + JD 3 yrs = 10 yrs.
Case 2: MS 2 yrs + JD 3 yrs = 5 yrs.
If Case 2 could find an IP attorney job somewhere, which I assume is quite
possible if he/she passes patent bar during the 3 years of JD study, and make
good grades in a top school, then within 5 years (difference between Case 1
and 2), he/she sure can reach a better position than a fresh graduate of Case
1.
there are many ways of making it. Your way might be fine, but it does not mean
everyone has to f

f*l2003-09-12 07:09

8 楼

make
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~If you are not a PR or GC holder,or H1b
employee having a job relative to patent,you couldn't take patent bar. Also,I
don't think he/she have time to pass patent bar during JD study.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~very very hard. As I said be4,average grade in UMICH law school
is C.
Case
mean
If
搞
的

【在 j******d 的大作中提到】

: Case 1: PhD 6 yrs + 1 yr experience + JD 3 yrs = 10 yrs.
: Case 2: MS 2 yrs + JD 3 yrs = 5 yrs.
: If Case 2 could find an IP attorney job somewhere, which I assume is quite
: possible if he/she passes patent bar during the 3 years of JD study, and make
: good grades in a top school, then within 5 years (difference between Case 1
: and 2), he/she sure can reach a better position than a fresh graduate of Case
: 1.
: there are many ways of making it. Your way might be fine, but it does not mean
: everyone has to f

j*d2003-09-12 07:09

9 楼

if you are not GC holder, I personally think it's a bad move to go for law
school. It's like trying to run while not being able to walk.
patent bar needs 180-200 hours preparation time on average. Sure one can spare
some time during the first summer to take it. If one thinks it's too much of a
burden, he/she shouldn't come to law school in the first place.
and many Chinese students I know have great grades in top law schools. Some
made law review, others graduated with honor. Most top law school

【在 f******l 的大作中提到】

:
: make
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~If you are not a PR or GC holder,or H1b
: employee having a job relative to patent,you couldn't take patent bar. Also,I
: don't think he/she have time to pass patent bar during JD study.
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~very very hard. As I said be4,average grade in UMICH law school
: is C.
: Case
: mean
: If

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

10 楼

I got your point.
Although many suggestions said, go for a patent agent or technical writer
position first. I personally don't think it's quite possible for a none GC
holder like me. As far as I know, I can't take patent bar without GC or H-1B
sponsored by a patent related company. Even for patent agent, they ask for
patent bar passed. Another reason I don't want to delay my law school
application is: I am 26 with a MS degree, if I go for work in my current major
now, very possiblly, I would stu

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

11 楼

I wanna be case 2.:)
GC is something in my way, but as you said,"there are many ways of making it".
I want to run as soon as possible.
by the way, I like your nickname "总是在路上". exactly feeling.
【在 JJonRoad (V) 的大作中提到: 】
make
Case
mean
If

o*e2003-09-12 07:09

12 楼

everybody will give you an opinion, but you gotto find out the one that works
for you the best. from what you said, an MS does not really give you an edge
on the technical side, especially if you are compared with PhDs (they have
much more technical writing experience, and credits). And you won't have the
patent-related experience, so the only card you can play is top ranking
schools, which is hard to come by.
If I were you, I would look for jobs (both in IP area and in my MS major
area), and

【在 w*******y 的大作中提到】

: I got your point.
: Although many suggestions said, go for a patent agent or technical writer
: position first. I personally don't think it's quite possible for a none GC
: holder like me. As far as I know, I can't take patent bar without GC or H-1B
: sponsored by a patent related company. Even for patent agent, they ask for
: patent bar passed. Another reason I don't want to delay my law school
: application is: I am 26 with a MS degree, if I go for work in my current major
: now, very possiblly, I would stu

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

13 楼

I'm still at school for Ph.D, and I just finished an intern at a big
pharmaceutical company. It's this summer's experience confirmed my thought for
law school. I saw people with master degrees working without credits, I saw
people with Ph.D working without enthusiasm, and I also saw people dreaming
for more.
If I can't go for law school next fall, probablly, I will finish my Ph.D
first.
Thank you for your suggestions.

works
edge
the
worst

【在 o****e 的大作中提到】

: everybody will give you an opinion, but you gotto find out the one that works
: for you the best. from what you said, an MS does not really give you an edge
: on the technical side, especially if you are compared with PhDs (they have
: much more technical writing experience, and credits). And you won't have the
: patent-related experience, so the only card you can play is top ranking
: schools, which is hard to come by.
: If I were you, I would look for jobs (both in IP area and in my MS major
: area), and

g*n2003-09-12 07:09

14 楼

for
In any company, particular large and stable company, you will see things
like
that, which is quite common. The advantage of being in US is that you can do
whatever you choose to do, however, for non-GC people, most of the time, you
will be limited by many factors. My suggestion is that you should file for
law school application, and at the same time look for jobs while finishing
up your PhD. You want to have many options lined up when you are out of ivy
tower.
I also heard that work exp

【在 w*******y 的大作中提到】

: I'm still at school for Ph.D, and I just finished an intern at a big
: pharmaceutical company. It's this summer's experience confirmed my thought for
: law school. I saw people with master degrees working without credits, I saw
: people with Ph.D working without enthusiasm, and I also saw people dreaming
: for more.
: If I can't go for law school next fall, probablly, I will finish my Ph.D
: first.
: Thank you for your suggestions.
:
: works

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

15 楼

Great post, hold your head high and never lose your dream. :)

saw
dreaming
GC
believe

【在 g***n 的大作中提到】

:
: for
: In any company, particular large and stable company, you will see things
: like
: that, which is quite common. The advantage of being in US is that you can do
: whatever you choose to do, however, for non-GC people, most of the time, you
: will be limited by many factors. My suggestion is that you should file for
: law school application, and at the same time look for jobs while finishing
: up your PhD. You want to have many options lined up when you are out of ivy
: tower.

j*i2003-09-12 07:09

16 楼

You can take patbar as soon as you have the EAD. Why do you have to be a GC
holder?

H1b
Also,I
1
younger
the
are
are

【在 f******l 的大作中提到】

f*l2003-09-12 07:09

17 楼

公民/绿卡/从事与专利相关工作的HIB
If my memory is here,hehe

quite
Case
school
not
Ranking.

【在 j****i 的大作中提到】

: You can take patbar as soon as you have the EAD. Why do you have to be a GC
: holder?
:
: H1b
: Also,I
: 1
: younger
: the
: are
: are

j*i2003-09-12 07:09

18 楼

Here is the link to the original doc
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb15oct03.pdf
On page 13,
Aliens residing in the United States may apply to take registration
examination. To be admitted to the examination, an Applicant must establish by
clear and convincing evidence that recognition is consistent with the capacity
of employment authorized by the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services
(BCIS) (formerly US. Immigration and Naturalization Services("INS")). The
evidence m

【在 f******l 的大作中提到】

: 公民/绿卡/从事与专利相关工作的HIB
: If my memory is here,hehe
:
: quite
: Case
: school
: not
: Ranking.

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

19 楼

Cool....

by
capacity
Services

【在 j****i 的大作中提到】

: Here is the link to the original doc
: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb15oct03.pdf
: On page 13,
: Aliens residing in the United States may apply to take registration
: examination. To be admitted to the examination, an Applicant must establish by
: clear and convincing evidence that recognition is consistent with the capacity
: of employment authorized by the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services
: (BCIS) (formerly US. Immigration and Naturalization Services("INS")). The
: evidence m

p*i2003-09-12 07:09

20 楼

驴也没错， ead上要写明是干专利撰写什么的

establish
to
of
do
a
is
study,
bar.

【在 w*******y 的大作中提到】

: Cool....
:
: by
: capacity
: Services

p*i2003-09-12 07:09

21 楼

aglee. 大约不少人是觉得这个行当薪水不错而且工作机会多然
后下下狠心进了法学院。做 IP(对於技术出身的中国人基本上
就是指专利了 )，如果没有兴趣以后会很闷的，而且 senior以后
工作也不会轻松多少。当然也许就象 jobhunting里有人说在哪里
不就是分工作么，兴趣问题还是可以留给下一辈考虑的。其
实就是这样，没有到那一步，可能就不会考虑那么多。现在
觉得有分工作就不错了，换工作的事儿等有了工作再说。兄
弟姐妹阿，难那。

知
有
排

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

22 楼

agree...

然
上
后
里
其
在
兄
是
还
一些IP不错但是总体排名不高的学校,我知道很少公司到那里去招人.总之就是overall

【在 p*********i 的大作中提到】

: aglee. 大约不少人是觉得这个行当薪水不错而且工作机会多然
: 后下下狠心进了法学院。做 IP(对於技术出身的中国人基本上
: 就是指专利了 )，如果没有兴趣以后会很闷的，而且 senior以后
: 工作也不会轻松多少。当然也许就象 jobhunting里有人说在哪里
: 不就是分工作么，兴趣问题还是可以留给下一辈考虑的。其
: 实就是这样，没有到那一步，可能就不会考虑那么多。现在
: 觉得有分工作就不错了，换工作的事儿等有了工作再说。兄
: 弟姐妹阿，难那。
:
: 知

j*i2003-09-12 07:09

23 楼

There are two kinds of EAD. If you get the EAD during your OPT period, then
your EAD must clarify the field that you can work in (must be related to your
major). If you get the EAD after filing I-485 petition, the EAD has nothing
and doesn't restrict what type of job you work in (basically in terms of
"capacity of employment", it is equivalent to having a green card).

The
regarding
"capacity
applications.
be
assume

【在 p*********i 的大作中提到】

: 驴也没错， ead上要写明是干专利撰写什么的
:
: establish
: to
: of
: do
: a
: is
: study,
: bar.

j*i2003-09-12 07:09

24 楼

但是对於一个搞技术搞了将近十年，并有四年左右工作经验的人来说，不做IP等於完全摒
弃了自己原来的方向从零开始。人生有几个十年啊！我觉得除非有特别的兴趣，否则这才
是真的不值呢。
关于毕业找工作，我是有切身体会的。我自己现在就是在本行业中属一属二的大公司工作
，很多人羡慕。但是，我还是觉得没意思。我想行行都是相通的，你在有名气的公司工作
，不过是个招牌罢了。干的开心不开心还是在个人。我就是那种钱买不来开心的人，老板
一个劲的提拔我，涨工资，发奖金，我还是不喜欢这份工作。我就不喜欢这种大公司的感
觉，一心想去硅谷的小公司闯。所以说人和人不一样，如果你是那种在大律师事务所当个
associate就可以很满足的人，那么自然去读前十的学校比较好。但是，我想不是每个人
都分享同样的价值观吧。
还有，学IP不一定就搞专利，至少我觉得中国人搞licensing也挺合适的。我们in-house
的那些华裔律师，就是搞licensing多于patent。
我觉得这类决定都是因人而异的。只要自己说服自己去个喜欢的学校好好学，何必这么早
就为日后操那么多心呢！

知
有
排
and
submitted
can

a*a2003-09-12 07:09

25 楼

That is so not true. Most companies will not hire people who stray away from
their original career for research or technical jobs. Once you decide to go
to B-school or Law school, the only way is to continue in the management or
law practise. Actually, I know a lot of people having difficulties finding
a job just because they did a postdoc not in the specific area they want to
find a career in.

a*r2003-09-12 07:09

26 楼

听起来你很厉害嘛。"老板一个劲的提拔我，涨工资，发奖金". 牛! 你一定是放弃高排名
的
学校而去你喜欢的学校了？你对LAW SCHOOL，IP懂多少？
我在这版上看了很久了。一直没怎么发言。这回实在忍不住了。你自己上不了好学校也就
罢了，但请你不要误导别人。

摒
才
作
作
板
感
个
人
还有，学IP不一定就搞专利，至少我觉得中国人搞licensing也挺合适的。我们in-house
早
是
还
一些IP不错但是总体排名不高的学校,我知道很少公司到那里去招人.总之就是overall
the
Immigration
Services("INS")).

【在 j****i 的大作中提到】

: 但是对於一个搞技术搞了将近十年，并有四年左右工作经验的人来说，不做IP等於完全摒
: 弃了自己原来的方向从零开始。人生有几个十年啊！我觉得除非有特别的兴趣，否则这才
: 是真的不值呢。
: 关于毕业找工作，我是有切身体会的。我自己现在就是在本行业中属一属二的大公司工作
: ，很多人羡慕。但是，我还是觉得没意思。我想行行都是相通的，你在有名气的公司工作
: ，不过是个招牌罢了。干的开心不开心还是在个人。我就是那种钱买不来开心的人，老板
: 一个劲的提拔我，涨工资，发奖金，我还是不喜欢这份工作。我就不喜欢这种大公司的感
: 觉，一心想去硅谷的小公司闯。所以说人和人不一样，如果你是那种在大律师事务所当个
: associate就可以很满足的人，那么自然去读前十的学校比较好。但是，我想不是每个人
: 都分享同样的价值观吧。

w*y2003-09-12 07:09

27 楼

Please don't be so rude.
Everybody has his point. You can accept or reject it, but it's not right to
attack him personally.

名
就
全
这
工
工
老
的
当
个
还有，学IP不一定就搞专利，至少我觉得中国人搞licensing也挺合适的。我们in-house
么
我还是觉得没必要念书之前就把自己限死了要做IP,其实很多其它领域以前不了解,但
.

【在 a*******r 的大作中提到】

: 听起来你很厉害嘛。"老板一个劲的提拔我，涨工资，发奖金". 牛! 你一定是放弃高排名
: 的
: 学校而去你喜欢的学校了？你对LAW SCHOOL，IP懂多少？
: 我在这版上看了很久了。一直没怎么发言。这回实在忍不住了。你自己上不了好学校也就
: 罢了，但请你不要误导别人。
:
: 摒
: 才
: 作
: 作