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搞不好hp来招回马枪# PDA - 掌中宝
i*n
1 楼
白羊座
如同白羊座的性格一样，直来直去，从不拐弯抹角，对自己想去的地方当然是本着
直线最近的原则，反正目标是在那的，不管怎么走总会到的。
认路指数50
金牛座
金牛座的人爱贪小便宜，哪家商店大减价，肯定会有他们的身影，能在大大小小的
商店中找到便宜的货品，也算是有本事了，相对来讲，认路指数不会太低的。
认路指数85
双子座
双子座的方向感也许不算是最好的，但胜在会不耻下问，遇到摸不清方向的时候，
随便抓个人来问问也就一清二楚了，当然问错了人的情况除外。
认路指数80
巨蟹座
喜欢家居生活的巨蟹，认路本领是极强的，条条大路小路都知道如何走才可以到家
，方向感很好。
认路指数90
狮子座
狮子座的人最粗心大意了，方向感极差，只会对自己想去的地方了如指掌，其他地
方就摸不清方向了，向狮子问路一定是个不智之举。
认路指数30
处女座
处女座的人固执，对自己清楚的地方会始终记得的，如果地方变了，那么就要自己
亲自去证实一下才会相信的。
认路指数55
天秤座
天秤座好友遍天下，外出游玩当然少不了好朋友的陪伴，所谓"三人行，必有我师"
，自己不认路，好友中总会有一个知道吧！
认路指数60
天蝎座
天蝎座的人总是那么的深藏不露，难以捉摸的，一些很难找的地方，别人或许找不
到，但天蝎说不定就可以找到。
认路指数85
射手座
射手座的人是最爱旅游的，喜欢过着无拘无束的生活，贪玩的射手对所到之到只会
为美景所吸引，一些细节的地方反而不会太在意，迷路了？那么就多欣赏一下美景吧！
认路指数50
摩羯座
摩羯座的人做事认真，谨慎，也小心，为保万无一失，身上配带地图是必不可少，
可以一图在手，行遍天下。
认路指数80
水瓶座
水瓶座的人聪明，但是也会有聪明一世，糊涂一时的时候，对想去地方总想找捷径
，以在最少的时间内到达，可有时总会事与愿违，走到死胡同，可能还得按原路回去。
认路指数70
双鱼座
双鱼座的人心细，观察事物也最仔细，对所到之处总会留多一个心眼，记一下地名
，街牌号什么的，下次再来就很容易找到了。
认路指数90
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T*y
2 楼
This talk is about the chemical, Dopamine, that people feel in ecstasy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0
It makes people want, without even knowing what is to be wanted. It is a major chemical that people show in infatuation or new relationships. The speaker also mentions its similar effect in some people's religious pursuit.
When this chemical fades, the rosy glasses fall, and then things become dull. However, this is exactly the time when true love comes in, to love the real persons as who they are.
As to its religious implications, I don't think that Hell, or reincarnation into cattle, etc, the so-called punishments real, nor is the particular worry-free heaven real. We are already in heaven, the place where we can feel the true joy and love. Any fear or reward driven religions (or dopamine involved pursuits) are missing the point.
As Dr. Brian Weiss's book "Many lives, many masters" mentioned, Hell is an illusion, that can be dispelled in a single thought. When that person is afraid and guilty, the Hell is there, and then he feels loved, the Hell is instantly dispelled.
avatar
e*G
3 楼
暗中加大生产，卖出个千万台
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S*u
4 楼
至少关于阿摩的非常不准确，从小到大，我就没能碰到过哪怕一个认路能力比我更烂的
avatar
T*y
5 楼
This is a book I find very useful:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
Is there anyone else who knows this person, and do you think what he teaches
is the real Buddhism or not? Well, real or not, his book speaks to me.
avatar
f*5
6 楼
他们的元件应该都订好了，不知道是接着做完还是转给别人，比如小米手机之类。

【在 e*****G 的大作中提到】
: 暗中加大生产，卖出个千万台
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d*5
7 楼
感觉和星座无关，和男女有关。俺天蝎认路据差，双子儿子一岁多就很能认路了。
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l*2
8 楼
还是很佩服你的英语水平,我还是不喜欢读英文的东西.
总觉得隔了一层.

teaches

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This is a book I find very useful:
: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
: Is there anyone else who knows this person, and do you think what he teaches
: is the real Buddhism or not? Well, real or not, his book speaks to me.
avatar
s*8
9 楼
那肯定不会。亏本生意。但是取消订单需要一段时间，肯定还会陆续有货。

【在 e*****G 的大作中提到】
: 暗中加大生产，卖出个千万台
avatar
c*s
10 楼
恩，這個還不錯。
人一定要有方向感，人生的道路上更是。
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs 7.36 - iPad Lite
avatar
g*t
11 楼
需要定义一下文中所说的"real"的含义。

major chemical that people show in infatuation or new relationships. The
speaker also mentions its similar effect in some people's religious pursuit.
dull. However, this is exactly the time when true love comes in, to love the
real persons as who they are.
reincarnation into cattle, etc, the so-called punishments real, nor is the
particular worry-free heaven real. We are already in heaven, the place where
we can feel the true joy and love. Any fear or reward driven religions (or
dopamine involved pursuits) are missing the point.
illusion, that can be dispelled in a single thought. When that person is
afraid and guilty, the Hell is there, and then he feels loved, the Hell is
instantly dispelled.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This talk is about the chemical, Dopamine, that people feel in ecstasy.
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0
: It makes people want, without even knowing what is to be wanted. It is a major chemical that people show in infatuation or new relationships. The speaker also mentions its similar effect in some people's religious pursuit.
: When this chemical fades, the rosy glasses fall, and then things become dull. However, this is exactly the time when true love comes in, to love the real persons as who they are.
: As to its religious implications, I don't think that Hell, or reincarnation into cattle, etc, the so-called punishments real, nor is the particular worry-free heaven real. We are already in heaven, the place where we can feel the true joy and love. Any fear or reward driven religions (or dopamine involved pursuits) are missing the point.
: As Dr. Brian Weiss's book "Many lives, many masters" mentioned, Hell is an illusion, that can be dispelled in a single thought. When that person is afraid and guilty, the Hell is there, and then he feels loved, the Hell is instantly dispelled.
avatar
e*G
12 楼
肯定不会亏很多，占领市场后什么都回来了

【在 s******8 的大作中提到】
: 那肯定不会。亏本生意。但是取消订单需要一段时间，肯定还会陆续有货。
avatar
T*y
13 楼
My understanding of that "real"ness is its existence physically.
For instance, sometimes we feel very afraid while watching a horror movie. The sensation is real, the feeling is real, or even the perception is real, but the thing that caused this feeling, namely, the horror scene in the movie, is not real. The scene was fake. No one's really killed there, no blood is really shed there, etc.
Then back to Hell, when people believe it, or such as Christians who may even reinforce this idea of Hell, there are people who really fear it. But does Hell exist at all? It may exist in some believers' mind, like that person mentioned in the book "Many lives, many masters", since he did many unethical things in one of his lifetimes. But once he was in that between-life state in hypnosis, and he was told that there was no Hell, then the Hell was dispelled instantly.
Is Hell physically there, or just an image in some human's mind?
Personally I don't believe Hell, and I don't want to use it to drive people into certain good deeds, out of fear of consequences, rather than out of pure love.

【在 g***t 的大作中提到】
: 需要定义一下文中所说的"real"的含义。
:
: major chemical that people show in infatuation or new relationships. The
: speaker also mentions its similar effect in some people's religious pursuit.
: dull. However, this is exactly the time when true love comes in, to love the
: real persons as who they are.
: reincarnation into cattle, etc, the so-called punishments real, nor is the
: particular worry-free heaven real. We are already in heaven, the place where
: we can feel the true joy and love. Any fear or reward driven religions (or
: dopamine involved pursuits) are missing the point.
avatar
T*y
14 楼
This quote from the book is what I was talking about recently:
"It is essential to learn to confront the less pleasant aspects of existence
. Our job as meditators is to learn to be patient with ourselves, to see
ourselves in an unbiased way, complete with all our sorrows and inadequacies
. We have to learn to be kind to ourselves. In the long run, avoiding
unpleasantness is a very unkind thing to do to yourself. Paradoxically,
kindness entails confronting unpleasantness when it arises. One popular
human strategy for dealing with difficulty is autosuggestion: when something
nasty pops up, you convince yourself it is pleasant rather than unpleasant.
The Buddha's tactic is quite the reverse. Rather than hide it or disguise
it, the Buddha's teaching urges you to examine it to death. Buddhism advises
you not to implant feelings that you don't really have or avoid feelings
that you do have. If you are miserable you are miserable; this is the
reality, that is what is happening, so confront that. Look it square in the
eye without flinching. When you are having a bad time, examine the badness,
observe it mindfully, study the phenomenon and learn its mechanics. The way
out of a trap is to study the trap itself, learn how it is built. You do
this by taking the thing apart piece by piece. The trap can't trap you if it
has been taken to pieces. The result is freedom."

teaches is the real Buddhism or not? Well, real or not, his book speaks to
me.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This is a book I find very useful:
: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
: Is there anyone else who knows this person, and do you think what he teaches
: is the real Buddhism or not? Well, real or not, his book speaks to me.
avatar
T*y
15 楼
This is not a question on evidence, but more on faith, or which wisdom makes sense to me.
As some psychics, some Buddhism stories, or the past-life-regression stories say, there are many levels of spirits, and we can connect to them. All the stories may not be counted as hard evidence, but they can be felt with real-life manifestations, and they seem real.
On the contrary, Hell is not a logical concept for love, and it does not seem real.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This quote from the book is what I was talking about recently:
: "It is essential to learn to confront the less pleasant aspects of existence
: . Our job as meditators is to learn to be patient with ourselves, to see
: ourselves in an unbiased way, complete with all our sorrows and inadequacies
: . We have to learn to be kind to ourselves. In the long run, avoiding
: unpleasantness is a very unkind thing to do to yourself. Paradoxically,
: kindness entails confronting unpleasantness when it arises. One popular
: human strategy for dealing with difficulty is autosuggestion: when something
: nasty pops up, you convince yourself it is pleasant rather than unpleasant.
: The Buddha's tactic is quite the reverse. Rather than hide it or disguise
avatar
f*8
16 楼

你表达的非常清楚，知道自己在说什么。
不过关于 real, 我理解的佛法道理还要更进一步，也就是说，
physical的东西也和思想、心理的东西一样，是虚幻的。
差别只是破除此幻觉的难易程度。突破物理局限更难。
你提到的《The Power of Now》很好，正好符合我现在的情况。
这几天差不多看完了，下面是个简单的总结：
1. "The Power of Now" 的作者 Eckhart Tolle 显然是经历了一些真实的东西，
看书的时候就想到另一个书的作者，Neale Donald Walsch
（author of ) .
觉的Tolle 应该是更有真实修证。好奇想对比一下。
结果还真有一个视频，是两人的对话，
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ac6Qrn_e0&feature=related
Neale 直接承认对方比自己更高。说对方非常接近一个Living Master （在世明师）
Neale 说“你懂...", 但是”我也懂...", 我们都可以“说得”很好。
不过差别在哪里呢？差别是，
you live it.
也就是说他知道Tolle是“活在真理中”，而我“只是知道”真理，会说而已。
Neale很诚肯实在。考虑到他在全世界有那么多追随者，这样做确实不错。
2. 对比Neals和Tolle， 我觉得更能清晰看见：
前者CWG几本书的重点是强调“思维内容”的调节，而Tolle的书的内容是观察“思维活
动本身”。
3. 我个人的感觉是，Tolle对自己所达到的平台总结的很好，所做的工作类似中国的禅
师的棒喝。所有的努力都是为了让人“活在当下”，不要被你的头脑（Mind）所欺骗。
有直指人心的意思。每一个棒喝都是为了让你回到中心。
他这本书所做工作的另一个性质，可能就是古代所说的“养悟”的意思，就是说既然你
已经通过亲身经历知道了一些道理（开悟），就要实践中不断地克服习惯，保持一直符
合此道理。
出现任何偏差，都要不断地纠正并返回来（养悟）。这是我从他那里学到的。
4. Tolle区分世间法和出世间法的词汇也很好，他把世间法和出世间法分为horizontal
dimension and Tertical dimension.
我必须学会在一个新的视野上平衡这两维的活动。
The Outer purpose belongs to the horizontal dimension of space and time; the
inner purpose concerns a deepening of your Being in the vertical dimension
of the timeless NOW.
5. 我个人认为， 如果要从Tolle所在的地方再进一步， Waichi是可以他提供方向和方
法的。这下一步的方向，就括对物质世界的超越。彻底认知物质世界为什么也是幻化出
来的，为什么说“一切”唯心造。
“一切”！就不仅仅是心理现象，也包括物质现象。
,
people

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: My understanding of that "real"ness is its existence physically.
: For instance, sometimes we feel very afraid while watching a horror movie. The sensation is real, the feeling is real, or even the perception is real, but the thing that caused this feeling, namely, the horror scene in the movie, is not real. The scene was fake. No one's really killed there, no blood is really shed there, etc.
: Then back to Hell, when people believe it, or such as Christians who may even reinforce this idea of Hell, there are people who really fear it. But does Hell exist at all? It may exist in some believers' mind, like that person mentioned in the book "Many lives, many masters", since he did many unethical things in one of his lifetimes. But once he was in that between-life state in hypnosis, and he was told that there was no Hell, then the Hell was dispelled instantly.
: Is Hell physically there, or just an image in some human's mind?
: Personally I don't believe Hell, and I don't want to use it to drive people into certain good deeds, out of fear of consequences, rather than out of pure love.
avatar
J*s
17 楼
It is real Buddhism. A quite nice book about Vipassana meditation practice.
:-)

teaches

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This is a book I find very useful:
: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
: Is there anyone else who knows this person, and do you think what he teaches
: is the real Buddhism or not? Well, real or not, his book speaks to me.
avatar
J*s
18 楼
你举的例子，sensation和horror scene都是real的，也许可以把horror这个词去掉。
sensation/feeling和scene都是真，它们可以代表佛法里说的名法和色法，这些法是在瞬间生灭
的。我们人的问题在于没有认识到瞬间生灭的事实，所以不明白苦，无我，和无常。
进一步讲，佛法的优势，或者佛法之所以最透彻，在于佛法不仅仅说了苦，无我和无常，
还告诉我们怎么可以灭苦，指出无明和贪爱在苦的产生中的重要性。佛法的八正道是可以
实现消灭贪嗔痴，真正实现解脱和自由的唯一的路。
四圣谛讲得是意识产生的最本质的规律，解决的是困扰我们意识和心灵的最本质的问题。

The sensation is real, the feeling is real, or even the perception is real,
but the thing that caused this feeling, namely, the horror scene in the
movie, is not real. The scene was fake. No one's really killed there, no
blood is really shed there, etc.
even reinforce this idea of Hell, there are people who really fear it. But
does Hell exist at all? It may exist in some believers' mind, like that
person mentioned in the book "Many lives, many masters", since he did many
unethical things in one of his lifetimes. But once he was in that between-
life state in hypnosis, and he was told that there was no Hell, then the
Hell was dispelled instantly.
people into certain good deeds, out of fear of consequences, rather than out
of pure love.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: My understanding of that "real"ness is its existence physically.
: For instance, sometimes we feel very afraid while watching a horror movie. The sensation is real, the feeling is real, or even the perception is real, but the thing that caused this feeling, namely, the horror scene in the movie, is not real. The scene was fake. No one's really killed there, no blood is really shed there, etc.
: Then back to Hell, when people believe it, or such as Christians who may even reinforce this idea of Hell, there are people who really fear it. But does Hell exist at all? It may exist in some believers' mind, like that person mentioned in the book "Many lives, many masters", since he did many unethical things in one of his lifetimes. But once he was in that between-life state in hypnosis, and he was told that there was no Hell, then the Hell was dispelled instantly.
: Is Hell physically there, or just an image in some human's mind?
: Personally I don't believe Hell, and I don't want to use it to drive people into certain good deeds, out of fear of consequences, rather than out of pure love.
avatar
g*t
19 楼
这段转载的文字写得很好。
但是你的一些看法基本上还是停留在唯物主义的观点上。

existence
inadequacies
something
unpleasant.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This quote from the book is what I was talking about recently:
: "It is essential to learn to confront the less pleasant aspects of existence
: . Our job as meditators is to learn to be patient with ourselves, to see
: ourselves in an unbiased way, complete with all our sorrows and inadequacies
: . We have to learn to be kind to ourselves. In the long run, avoiding
: unpleasantness is a very unkind thing to do to yourself. Paradoxically,
: kindness entails confronting unpleasantness when it arises. One popular
: human strategy for dealing with difficulty is autosuggestion: when something
: nasty pops up, you convince yourself it is pleasant rather than unpleasant.
: The Buddha's tactic is quite the reverse. Rather than hide it or disguise
avatar
T*y
20 楼
Thanks a lot for letting me know of Neale Donald Walsch and his book.
I googled to know that he started this talking by writing on a notebook.
This seems to be a useful tool.
The author of "Eat, Pray, Love", Elizabeth Gilbert, mentioned that she
often took out her notebook to ask her higher self on what she should
do. She is just a normal person, and the answers she got, although
seemingly simple, often helped her a lot. In the least, this seems to be
a way to connect to one's intuition.
三毛 has also done this. After Jose passed away, she was so heart-broken
that she tried many psychic ways to try to talk to him, including this
writing tool. She used to get many of her old friends who passed away to
posses her hand to write, in their own handwriting style. However, she
once got a very weird answer, and she asked that spirit who he is, and
he answered "Satan" or something alike, and she got very cautious that
this method may attract ill-spirits, so she gave it up.
Sonia Choquette also talked about how she learned to open her dialogues
with higher spirits and close the channels with the lower spirits,
whenever she wants, otherwise she used to be a blind receiver to absorb
many noises and nuisances.
Regarding “一切”唯心造, I am quite frankly not there yet. I am interested
to know more about it.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 你表达的非常清楚，知道自己在说什么。
: 不过关于 real, 我理解的佛法道理还要更进一步，也就是说，
: physical的东西也和思想、心理的东西一样，是虚幻的。
: 差别只是破除此幻觉的难易程度。突破物理局限更难。
: 你提到的《The Power of Now》很好，正好符合我现在的情况。
: 这几天差不多看完了，下面是个简单的总结：
: 1. "The Power of Now" 的作者 Eckhart Tolle 显然是经历了一些真实的东西，
: 看书的时候就想到另一个书的作者，Neale Donald Walsch
: （author of ) .
avatar
T*y
21 楼
Thanks, JeanIris!
I guess that I haven't read enough books to understand what each concept
means exactly.
Could you tell me more about "瞬间生灭的事实". This seems to be the root of
all the understanding. Do you have any personal experiences regarding this?
Thank you!

在瞬间生灭
常，
可以
题。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 你举的例子，sensation和horror scene都是real的，也许可以把horror这个词去掉。
: sensation/feeling和scene都是真，它们可以代表佛法里说的名法和色法，这些法是在瞬间生灭
: 的。我们人的问题在于没有认识到瞬间生灭的事实，所以不明白苦，无我，和无常。
: 进一步讲，佛法的优势，或者佛法之所以最透彻，在于佛法不仅仅说了苦，无我和无常，
: 还告诉我们怎么可以灭苦，指出无明和贪爱在苦的产生中的重要性。佛法的八正道是可以
: 实现消灭贪嗔痴，真正实现解脱和自由的唯一的路。
: 四圣谛讲得是意识产生的最本质的规律，解决的是困扰我们意识和心灵的最本质的问题。
:
: The sensation is real, the feeling is real, or even the perception is real,
: but the thing that caused this feeling, namely, the horror scene in the
avatar
T*y
22 楼
Thanks for the comment.
The concept 唯物主义 seems too abstract to me. I would say that given our
education in China, I have really believed that all others say about me,
or about a situation, must be a fact, given their experiences, their
authorities, and on and on. It's only later did I realize that those
sayings were not facts at all, but just thoughts, and I could easily
change my thoughts to change my life, which is so liberating and
fulfilling.
Could you tell me more about your personal understanding on this subject?
Thank you!

【在 g***t 的大作中提到】
: 这段转载的文字写得很好。
: 但是你的一些看法基本上还是停留在唯物主义的观点上。
:
: existence
: inadequacies
: something
: unpleasant.
avatar
T*y
23 楼
I just noticed something fun in 精华区:
问："南无佛"是什么意思?为什么读起来是"那摩佛"?
答："南无"是梵语Namo的音译，念成"那摩"，是保持原来古代的读音。
现代广东、福建一部分地区，仍保持这个古音，它的意义是"敬礼"。
今天印度人相见，互道"那摩悉对"，就是说："敬礼了"。
南无佛 turned out to be "Namaste", "the divine in me salutes the divine in
you", the most often used word in Yoga, etc.
Katie Byron was not very well educated, and she joked that she used to
think this phrase as "No mistake", and she thought that those people were
really wise, since there were indeed no mistakes in our lives. Everything
is just what it is.
Anyway, I am thinking about the translation problem. From Indian language
to Chinese, or to other languages, there could be many quite un-intuitive
glitches in the translations here or there. How could one know that s/he
is learning the authentic ideas from Buddha?
avatar
f*8
24 楼
其实很有意思，我读完《The power of Now》，确实比较了基本其他书，
昨天又跟《A Course of Miracles》比较了一下。
感觉如下：
1. 人们对Meditation的理解确实差别极大，特别是New Age, 五花八门各种各样。
你上面提到的几种人，都是自认在Meditation.
2. 粗略看现在流行的打坐（Meditation),大概有几种（个人看法，不代表佛教观点），
A. Channeling. 比如上面你提到的 三毛的体验，还有Neale D Walsch,
以及 A Course of Miracles的作者。都是脑袋里“听到”什么声音。
B. 放松打坐，仅仅是放松，让心静下来 （自己实践的）
C. 放松打坐，不过放松后还有努力目标。（有人教的）
D. The Power of Now 的作者，他的经历十分特殊，不知道怎么回事，但是又有真实
的体验。
第A种，Channeling 最迷惑人，能让人迷信，因为让人得到一个神秘的答案，并且迷惑
在现象中。
有时候有些答案似乎很有智慧，比如CWG,我好多年都很喜欢他关于世界问题的解答。
但慢慢地能发现他跟真实的智慧不同，真实的智慧超越现象。而这些书还是围绕现象
来谈。
B种， 任何人心静下来多少都会有帮助，只是不会走太远，好像自学。
C种， 有方法，有目的，是专业打坐。各人的方法可能入手时不一样。如果要走的远，
这是必须。
D种， 那个作者，我认为他的见解都是很对的，很符合禅宗的，佛教的，虽然我个人不
会说他是究竟的，但是他的方向是对的。
看了the power of now后，我知道他比CWG和ACIM要好。
ACIM现在看来还是迷信一种外来的启示，而不是开启自身的智慧。
不过The Power of Now这本书的限制是，他的经历是无法模仿的，他给出的都是
他经过一个很特殊的机缘后，得到了很好的体验经历，进而得出清晰的结论，但
是没有教别人如何能获得同样的机缘。
就像古代的禅师，有些人是机缘到了后，听到破竹的声音而开悟等等。
这一点，我相信，有些真正明白的师父能安排适合每个人的情况的实验，
从而教人切实做到同样的事情。

interested
这是佛教的核心概念。一切唯心造，万法唯识。
唯识，是唯心、唯物之外的第三种世界观。
我认为也是唯一正确而可以落实的世界观。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks a lot for letting me know of Neale Donald Walsch and his book.
: I googled to know that he started this talking by writing on a notebook.
: This seems to be a useful tool.
: The author of "Eat, Pray, Love", Elizabeth Gilbert, mentioned that she
: often took out her notebook to ask her higher self on what she should
: do. She is just a normal person, and the answers she got, although
: seemingly simple, often helped her a lot. In the least, this seems to be
: a way to connect to one's intuition.
: 三毛 has also done this. After Jose passed away, she was so heart-broken
: that she tried many psychic ways to try to talk to him, including this
avatar
T*y
25 楼
Could you explain more about "一切唯心造，万法唯识"?
Meditation is indeed too broad a topic, even within Buddhist practice, there
are lots of variations. That's what Ven. Henepola Gunaratana mentioned in
his book "Mindfulness In Plain English", which I gave a link above. His
approach is also just one of them.
Those channeling examples are prevalent in many places and throughout the
history, and those people are more motivated to meditate. I am a talker
about it now though, as I don't meditate often.
Being able to talk to such spirits or intuitions or whatever people tend to
interpret them, and practicing meditation, have helped shaping human kind's
understanding of such issues. For instance, Carl Jung(卡尔·荣格)'s PhD
dissertation was motivated by his cousin sister's psychic experience to talk
to her spiritual guide. Later Jung met his own spiritual guide, Phil,
during his meditation, and lots of his theories were developed by this
connection. As Jung had published lots of papers, not all of them were
really consistent, but as he said, he was trying to point mirrors towards
that center fire or light, and the mirrors didn't really overlap well, but
the center light was there, and that was what he wanted to convey. What he
concluded though was the collective unconsciousness that all people posses
in our subconscious like the genes in our body. He also proposed that people
connect to this collective unconsciousness through dreams. So a similar
experience may lead to different interpretations.
There are many other contemporary people who have this kind of channeling
abilities, and their insights are very useful, although it's hard to say it'
t the ultimate one or not.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 其实很有意思，我读完《The power of Now》，确实比较了基本其他书，
: 昨天又跟《A Course of Miracles》比较了一下。
: 感觉如下：
: 1. 人们对Meditation的理解确实差别极大，特别是New Age, 五花八门各种各样。
: 你上面提到的几种人，都是自认在Meditation.
: 2. 粗略看现在流行的打坐（Meditation),大概有几种（个人看法，不代表佛教观点），
: A. Channeling. 比如上面你提到的 三毛的体验，还有Neale D Walsch,
: 以及 A Course of Miracles的作者。都是脑袋里“听到”什么声音。
: B. 放松打坐，仅仅是放松，让心静下来 （自己实践的）
: C. 放松打坐，不过放松后还有努力目标。（有人教的）
avatar
f*8
26 楼

我理解这两句话是互相说明的，
从现象来讲，就是所有的现象（物理、心理现象）都是识，所以叫万法唯识。
这些识都是由心所生，所以叫一切唯心造。
此机制要实证真正见到，才算是有见解，我也在初步接触，就说不太多了。
唯识体系内容挺烦杂的，这里有个链接，我觉得初步了解还是不错。
http://baike.baidu.com/view/48531.htm
there
to
s
talk
people
it'

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Could you explain more about "一切唯心造，万法唯识"?
: Meditation is indeed too broad a topic, even within Buddhist practice, there
: are lots of variations. That's what Ven. Henepola Gunaratana mentioned in
: his book "Mindfulness In Plain English", which I gave a link above. His
: approach is also just one of them.
: Those channeling examples are prevalent in many places and throughout the
: history, and those people are more motivated to meditate. I am a talker
: about it now though, as I don't meditate often.
: Being able to talk to such spirits or intuitions or whatever people tend to
: interpret them, and practicing meditation, have helped shaping human kind's
avatar
y*o
27 楼
这个很有趣，有什么drug可以降低多巴胺的话看来可以让人变得清新寡欲了

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This talk is about the chemical, Dopamine, that people feel in ecstasy.
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0
: It makes people want, without even knowing what is to be wanted. It is a major chemical that people show in infatuation or new relationships. The speaker also mentions its similar effect in some people's religious pursuit.
: When this chemical fades, the rosy glasses fall, and then things become dull. However, this is exactly the time when true love comes in, to love the real persons as who they are.
: As to its religious implications, I don't think that Hell, or reincarnation into cattle, etc, the so-called punishments real, nor is the particular worry-free heaven real. We are already in heaven, the place where we can feel the true joy and love. Any fear or reward driven religions (or dopamine involved pursuits) are missing the point.
: As Dr. Brian Weiss's book "Many lives, many masters" mentioned, Hell is an illusion, that can be dispelled in a single thought. When that person is afraid and guilty, the Hell is there, and then he feels loved, the Hell is instantly dispelled.
avatar
T*y
28 楼
Besides Dopamine, there are other chemicals involved in love affairs.
Anti-depression medicines are tested to show their inhibition effects to
prevent one from falling in love.
Some other medicines may have the promoting effects to make people
restless though. I read an article in some magazine about a woman who
blamed her advancement to men due to the medicine cocktail that she had to
take. This is no joke.
Chemicals are the sensing and controlling agents within our bodies. Their
generations and movements show us how we feel the way we feel, but they
are not about the ultimate why yet.

【在 y*****o 的大作中提到】
: 这个很有趣，有什么drug可以降低多巴胺的话看来可以让人变得清新寡欲了
avatar
T*y
29 楼
Thanks for the link. I guess that I still need more time and more reading to
understand this.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我理解这两句话是互相说明的，
: 从现象来讲，就是所有的现象（物理、心理现象）都是识，所以叫万法唯识。
: 这些识都是由心所生，所以叫一切唯心造。
: 此机制要实证真正见到，才算是有见解，我也在初步接触，就说不太多了。
: 唯识体系内容挺烦杂的，这里有个链接，我觉得初步了解还是不错。
: http://baike.baidu.com/view/48531.htm
: there
: to
: s
avatar
y*o
30 楼
Interesting, thanks

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Besides Dopamine, there are other chemicals involved in love affairs.
: Anti-depression medicines are tested to show their inhibition effects to
: prevent one from falling in love.
: Some other medicines may have the promoting effects to make people
: restless though. I read an article in some magazine about a woman who
: blamed her advancement to men due to the medicine cocktail that she had to
: take. This is no joke.
: Chemicals are the sensing and controlling agents within our bodies. Their
: generations and movements show us how we feel the way we feel, but they
: are not about the ultimate why yet.
avatar
S*U
31 楼
There are at least 2 ways:
1. Experiential: the experience of enlightenment can, and has been
reproduced over ages in different countries. When we compare these
experiences with what we thought the Buddha said, it confirms or put into
question our understanding.
2. Scholarly. Buddhist scriptures are recorded in two major languages: Pali
and Sanskrit, and translated into Chinese, Tibetan, English, etc. later.
Knowledge of Pali or Sanskrit will clarify what explanations are possible. e
.g. I sometimes refer to Pali texts to clarify the idea.
As to how Buddhist sutras come into existence, see
http://online-dhamma.net/anicca/books/six_collection.htm
for an historical account. Mahayana sutras are not included in this account.

Anyway, I am thinking about the translation problem. From Indian language
to Chinese, or to other languages, there could be many quite un-intuitive
glitches in the translations here or there. How could one know that s/he
is learning the authentic ideas from Buddha?

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for the link. I guess that I still need more time and more reading to
: understand this.
avatar
T*y
32 楼
wow, you know Pali!
One of my Indian friends learned Sanskrit when he was little, and he said
that that language had very firm grammar structure, etc.
I have never thought of learning a language like that. How did you get
started on learning Buddhism and Pali?

Pali
e

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
: There are at least 2 ways:
: 1. Experiential: the experience of enlightenment can, and has been
: reproduced over ages in different countries. When we compare these
: experiences with what we thought the Buddha said, it confirms or put into
: question our understanding.
: 2. Scholarly. Buddhist scriptures are recorded in two major languages: Pali
: and Sanskrit, and translated into Chinese, Tibetan, English, etc. later.
: Knowledge of Pali or Sanskrit will clarify what explanations are possible. e
: .g. I sometimes refer to Pali texts to clarify the idea.
: As to how Buddhist sutras come into existence, see
avatar
S*U
33 楼
A monk taught us Pali at our request. It is not uncommon for people in
Theravada tradition to learn Pali since their daily chanting is in Pali.
There is a system to teach Pali and tests for your Pali fluency in these
countries. You may find Pali class is offered in your Theravada centers as
well.
For us, we used the classical textbook "Introduction to Pali".

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: wow, you know Pali!
: One of my Indian friends learned Sanskrit when he was little, and he said
: that that language had very firm grammar structure, etc.
: I have never thought of learning a language like that. How did you get
: started on learning Buddhism and Pali?
:
: Pali
: e
avatar
T*y
34 楼
I see. That's good to know. I've checked that there are quite a few learning
groups near my area.

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
: A monk taught us Pali at our request. It is not uncommon for people in
: Theravada tradition to learn Pali since their daily chanting is in Pali.
: There is a system to teach Pali and tests for your Pali fluency in these
: countries. You may find Pali class is offered in your Theravada centers as
: well.
: For us, we used the classical textbook "Introduction to Pali".
avatar
f*8
35 楼
上次遗漏了一点历史知识。
唯识学派是当年唐三藏到印度取经、游学回国后，
根据其重点翻译的经典所建立。这工作包括他和其弟子的功劳。
这个体系主要就是讲八种识的功能、机制，
眼耳鼻舌身依有六识，然后加上后面两识--第七识和第八识。
因为唯识体系可以涉及很多很细的心理过程，内容太过庞杂，
唐僧为了让人易于学习，提纲挈领地写了一篇提纲，即是《八识规矩颂》
现在网上有很多种关于八识规矩颂的讲解注释。
你一下子就能搜出很多种，看看就知道了。
不过我们gyfm常常被师兄提醒的是：
要注意区分“了解”和“真知”不同。
如果真的知道唯识，应该是已经实证水平很高了，
亲自见到几种识互相作用的具体过程。
实际上我们并不确定那些流行注释的作者到底水平如何，
他们到底是听说的还是自己证实的，所以不可全面采信他们的说法。
读书只能保证大致知道有这么个说法。
要真知，只能靠实证。

to

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for the link. I guess that I still need more time and more reading to
: understand this.
avatar
d*e
36 楼
人真的是太渺小了,你让别人吃点药的用心原来是这样的.
险恶呀,你.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Besides Dopamine, there are other chemicals involved in love affairs.
: Anti-depression medicines are tested to show their inhibition effects to
: prevent one from falling in love.
: Some other medicines may have the promoting effects to make people
: restless though. I read an article in some magazine about a woman who
: blamed her advancement to men due to the medicine cocktail that she had to
: take. This is no joke.
: Chemicals are the sensing and controlling agents within our bodies. Their
: generations and movements show us how we feel the way we feel, but they
: are not about the ultimate why yet.
avatar
J*s
37 楼
The most helpful books I read so far are:
A MAP OF THE JOURNEY.
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/mapjourney6.pdf
and
SNOW IN THE SUMMER
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/jotleeds.pdf
By Ven. Sayadaw U Jotika.
They helped me understand what Buddhism and Meditation are.
I benefited a lot from them.
I do not have quite matured experience of "瞬间生灭的事实",
since we must experience it in Vipassana meditation.
But more and more I understand and accept this is a fact
without doubt.

of
?

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks, JeanIris!
: I guess that I haven't read enough books to understand what each concept
: means exactly.
: Could you tell me more about "瞬间生灭的事实". This seems to be the root of
: all the understanding. Do you have any personal experiences regarding this?
: Thank you!
:
: 在瞬间生灭
: 常，
: 可以
avatar
J*s
38 楼
Dopamine antagonist
:-)
Dopamine has a lot of physiological functions in other systems, like heart,
blood. There are some side-effects when using Dopamine antagonist.

【在 y*****o 的大作中提到】
: 这个很有趣，有什么drug可以降低多巴胺的话看来可以让人变得清新寡欲了
avatar
T*y
39 楼
danalake ah danalake, you could insert whatever you wanted to insert.
I see no limits in your misinterpretation, and your twisting is superb!

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】
: 人真的是太渺小了,你让别人吃点药的用心原来是这样的.
: 险恶呀,你.
avatar
T*y
40 楼
I see. Thank you so much for the recommendations!

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: The most helpful books I read so far are:
: A MAP OF THE JOURNEY.
: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/mapjourney6.pdf
: and
: SNOW IN THE SUMMER
: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/jotleeds.pdf
: By Ven. Sayadaw U Jotika.
: They helped me understand what Buddhism and Meditation are.
: I benefited a lot from them.
: I do not have quite matured experience of "瞬间生灭的事实",
avatar
T*y
41 楼
Yes, I did see that there were lots of info about 《八识规矩颂》. I will
check them out. Thank you!

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 上次遗漏了一点历史知识。
: 唯识学派是当年唐三藏到印度取经、游学回国后，
: 根据其重点翻译的经典所建立。这工作包括他和其弟子的功劳。
: 这个体系主要就是讲八种识的功能、机制，
: 眼耳鼻舌身依有六识，然后加上后面两识--第七识和第八识。
: 因为唯识体系可以涉及很多很细的心理过程，内容太过庞杂，
: 唐僧为了让人易于学习，提纲挈领地写了一篇提纲，即是《八识规矩颂》
: 现在网上有很多种关于八识规矩颂的讲解注释。
: 你一下子就能搜出很多种，看看就知道了。
: 不过我们gyfm常常被师兄提醒的是：
avatar
d*e
42 楼
你这个人,你自己说过的话,自己怎么怎么就不认呢?
你一天这么说了,过几天你解释一下,我再过些天
用合理的逻辑联系一下,有什么不可以?
不知道跟你说什么,开玩笑不行啊?
我不想战胜你,你随便说吧,我都打算走了呢.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: danalake ah danalake, you could insert whatever you wanted to insert.
: I see no limits in your misinterpretation, and your twisting is superb!
avatar
T*y
43 楼
I have never said a different thing, and you could insert whatever you had
in mind into my saying and then fight against what you've inserted.
It's not a debate between me and you, but between your own thoughts.

Joke is fine with me. Haven't I sent you quite a few smiley faces already? :
-) One more here!
What is winning? What is losing? Well, if you want to leave, leave, that
shows that you want to leave. Telling me that you want to leave means that
you either are not sure about it or maybe you want me to ask you to stay, do
you? I have no inclination either way. It's all up to you.

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】
: 你这个人,你自己说过的话,自己怎么怎么就不认呢?
: 你一天这么说了,过几天你解释一下,我再过些天
: 用合理的逻辑联系一下,有什么不可以?
: 不知道跟你说什么,开玩笑不行啊?
: 我不想战胜你,你随便说吧,我都打算走了呢.
avatar
f*8
44 楼

The most interesting discovery in the meditation is,
people tend to confuse themself by mixing the two concepts:
I Feel angry, and ,I Am angry.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Besides Dopamine, there are other chemicals involved in love affairs.
: Anti-depression medicines are tested to show their inhibition effects to
: prevent one from falling in love.
: Some other medicines may have the promoting effects to make people
: restless though. I read an article in some magazine about a woman who
: blamed her advancement to men due to the medicine cocktail that she had to
: take. This is no joke.
: Chemicals are the sensing and controlling agents within our bodies. Their
: generations and movements show us how we feel the way we feel, but they
: are not about the ultimate why yet.
avatar
T*y
45 楼
Can you explain a bit more on this difference?
Sometimes it's the panic of not knowing what to feel or think that's the
most paralyzing. Once we are aware that we are afraid, tensed, angry, etc,
that emotion is acknowledged, and then it fades.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: The most interesting discovery in the meditation is,
: people tend to confuse themself by mixing the two concepts:
: I Feel angry, and ,I Am angry.
avatar
y*o
46 楼
I may consider to have a try..

,

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: Dopamine antagonist
: :-)
: Dopamine has a lot of physiological functions in other systems, like heart,
: blood. There are some side-effects when using Dopamine antagonist.
avatar
f*8
47 楼
When in a deep meditation status,
a person can clearly see the rising of emotion.
when he feels the emotion of angry or fear, he know he "feel" the emotion,
but he will not identify himself as the emotion.
so he will not say I "am" (the emotion of) angry or afraid when actually he
just feel (the emotion of) angry or fear.
but in the daily life, people are not aware of that these two expression
represent two different things.
their cognition go directly from frist to second,
the cognition totally mixed up. that's the majoy illusion.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Can you explain a bit more on this difference?
: Sometimes it's the panic of not knowing what to feel or think that's the
: most paralyzing. Once we are aware that we are afraid, tensed, angry, etc,
: that emotion is acknowledged, and then it fades.
avatar
T*y
48 楼
Thanks for your explanation.
That difference is exactly what I have realized. This distinction does not happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
All emotions, and thoughts, are not the "me" that I am identified with. I am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those thoughts.
I still feel, and I know that my emotions help me move along in life. I enjoy happiness, I feel sorrows, and I let my anger to push me to stand up for myself or others. I also know that emotions pass.
I still think, and I have many thoughts that linger in my head, but I can talk to those thoughts to check whether I believe them or not, rather than seeing them as absolutely true, as I used to do.

but he will not identify himself as the emotion.
he

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: When in a deep meditation status,
: a person can clearly see the rising of emotion.
: when he feels the emotion of angry or fear, he know he "feel" the emotion,
: but he will not identify himself as the emotion.
: so he will not say I "am" (the emotion of) angry or afraid when actually he
: just feel (the emotion of) angry or fear.
: but in the daily life, people are not aware of that these two expression
: represent two different things.
: their cognition go directly from frist to second,
: the cognition totally mixed up. that's the majoy illusion.
avatar
f*8
49 楼
That's great! and I agree with you that the distinction exist in daily life.
and I believe we can tell a person's consciousness level
by observing how deep and strong he identify himself with various phenominon.
or how much he detach himself from various phenominon.
and your expressions of "I still..." are very good!
Yes, I'm not going to die by realizing the truth. only make things better :)
though I believe there are still some more steps to achieve
before a person can say that he is totally liberated from all phenominon.

happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those
thoughts.
enjoy happiness, I feel sorrows, and I let my anger to push me to stand up
for myself or others. I also know that emotions pass.
talk to those thoughts to check whether I believe them or not, rather than
seeing them as absolutely true, as I used to do.
emotion,

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for your explanation.
: That difference is exactly what I have realized. This distinction does not happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
: All emotions, and thoughts, are not the "me" that I am identified with. I am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those thoughts.
: I still feel, and I know that my emotions help me move along in life. I enjoy happiness, I feel sorrows, and I let my anger to push me to stand up for myself or others. I also know that emotions pass.
: I still think, and I have many thoughts that linger in my head, but I can talk to those thoughts to check whether I believe them or not, rather than seeing them as absolutely true, as I used to do.
:
: but he will not identify himself as the emotion.
: he
avatar
J*s
50 楼
佛法里讲的是只有不断生灭的名色法，没有我，
也没有那个“witness”
：p
佛法里讲的thoughts就是名法，它是因为因缘不断生灭的，其实没有绝对的真实，唯一
真实的是其生灭的事实
与其说你以前认为它们是绝对真实的，不如说你没有认识到它是因缘生灭的

happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those
thoughts.
enjoy happiness, I feel sorrows, and I let my anger to push me to stand up
for myself or others. I also know that emotions pass.
talk to those thoughts to check whether I believe them or not, rather than
seeing them as absolutely true, as I used to do.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for your explanation.
: That difference is exactly what I have realized. This distinction does not happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
: All emotions, and thoughts, are not the "me" that I am identified with. I am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those thoughts.
: I still feel, and I know that my emotions help me move along in life. I enjoy happiness, I feel sorrows, and I let my anger to push me to stand up for myself or others. I also know that emotions pass.
: I still think, and I have many thoughts that linger in my head, but I can talk to those thoughts to check whether I believe them or not, rather than seeing them as absolutely true, as I used to do.
:
: but he will not identify himself as the emotion.
: he
avatar
J*s
51 楼
最后一句，只有涅槃以后的阿罗汉和佛陀可以：P

life.
phenominon.
those

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: That's great! and I agree with you that the distinction exist in daily life.
: and I believe we can tell a person's consciousness level
: by observing how deep and strong he identify himself with various phenominon.
: or how much he detach himself from various phenominon.
: and your expressions of "I still..." are very good!
: Yes, I'm not going to die by realizing the truth. only make things better :)
: though I believe there are still some more steps to achieve
: before a person can say that he is totally liberated from all phenominon.
:
: happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
avatar
T*y
52 楼
I notice that this point is what runsun used to accuse waichi with. waichi
seemed to have claimed the constancy of that witness, but runsun said that "
it's totally not so, even that witness is instantly disappearing and
appearing".
I don't know how this understanding would affect my views on the world or
myself yet.
Could you tell me something more specific, or based on your personal
experiences, about this point?

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 佛法里讲的是只有不断生灭的名色法，没有我，
: 也没有那个“witness”
: ：p
: 佛法里讲的thoughts就是名法，它是因为因缘不断生灭的，其实没有绝对的真实，唯一
: 真实的是其生灭的事实
: 与其说你以前认为它们是绝对真实的，不如说你没有认识到它是因缘生灭的
:
: happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
: am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those
: thoughts.
avatar
T*y
53 楼
Also, regarding this point below, I guess that I don't quite understand "因
缘生灭" yet. Could you explain a bit more?
When I said earlier that "thoughts are not necessarily true", I meant that
they might not reflect the reality, and hence false. However, those thoughts
are "real", as they appeared in my head. They are like some statements,
which I can choose to believe or not. Of course the thought that "I believe
this thought" itself is also a thought, but I can choose the thoughts that
benefit me, rather than sabotage me.

一真实的是其生灭的事实与其说你以前认为它们是绝对真实的，不如说你没有认识到它
是因缘生灭的

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 最后一句，只有涅槃以后的阿罗汉和佛陀可以：P
:
: life.
: phenominon.
: those
avatar
T*y
54 楼
Do you mean that "认识到它是因缘生灭的" is something that "只有涅槃以后的阿
罗汉和佛陀" can do?
What are the levels of the Buddhists on this board? Is there a chart to let
everyone know where they are on this journey?

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 最后一句，只有涅槃以后的阿罗汉和佛陀可以：P
:
: life.
: phenominon.
: those
avatar
w*r
55 楼
So far, I feel most of the people on this board
is at the very early stage regarding 实修。
WAICHI looks like having an advanced level of 实修。
However, people are questioning that whether or not he is following
the basic principles of buddhism.

let

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Do you mean that "认识到它是因缘生灭的" is something that "只有涅槃以后的阿
: 罗汉和佛陀" can do?
: What are the levels of the Buddhists on this board? Is there a chart to let
: everyone know where they are on this journey?
avatar
T*y
56 楼
Did you imply that "涅槃 is dying" while saying "I'm not going to die by
realizing the truth" below?
涅槃 is translated as nirvana in English. I don't know which word (涅槃 or
nirvana) is more authentic or closer to its original meaning in Buddha's
language.
I don't think that 涅槃 is dying though, although I can't say that it's not,
either.
In Jill Taylor's book "Stroke of Insight", she described her experiences
during a stroke, where her left brain and right brain alternatively took
charge of her, when she didn't feel the boundary of her own body, etc, that
felt exactly like nirvana. She used to be a very successful neurologist to
understand the brains from outside, and this stroke experience let her
understand the brains inside out. It was not easy though. It took her 8
years to recover, to gain some basic living abilities, with her mother's
loving care. As hard as it was, it could also be her most enlightening
experience to make her be very sensitive to the energy that people bring to
their environment, etc. There are people accusing her for using the word
nirvana as they thought that her experience could not be. Well, any way, her
messages based on her experiences are so loving and inspiring. Her Ted Talk
video is here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of

life.
phenominon.
those

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: That's great! and I agree with you that the distinction exist in daily life.
: and I believe we can tell a person's consciousness level
: by observing how deep and strong he identify himself with various phenominon.
: or how much he detach himself from various phenominon.
: and your expressions of "I still..." are very good!
: Yes, I'm not going to die by realizing the truth. only make things better :)
: though I believe there are still some more steps to achieve
: before a person can say that he is totally liberated from all phenominon.
:
: happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
avatar
T*y
57 楼
Thanks for letting me know.
I don't like GYFM's dictatorship and idolization, but I can see how it may
help advance some followers' practice, not because of QH's ability, but
because of the believers' faith.
Faith and the desire to learn and advance is the driving force for one to
improve his/her practice, not the teachers, although good teachers are very
helpful. When the student is ready, the teachers will appear.

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: So far, I feel most of the people on this board
: is at the very early stage regarding 实修。
: WAICHI looks like having an advanced level of 实修。
: However, people are questioning that whether or not he is following
: the basic principles of buddhism.
:
: let
avatar
S*U
58 楼
Nirvana is the Sanskrit word used in Buddhism, and English adopted that word
. 涅盘 is the usual Chinese translation. There are 2 types of 涅盘 in early
Buddhism: one while an arahant is still alive, another after he dies. The
difference is whether he still has a body in this world.
The meaning of "nirvana" is "cessation of suffering" in early Buddhism,
where "suffering" includes the coarse, as well as subtle, suffering. The
subtle suffering is always being oppressed by the rise and fall of mind and
matter; you have no control over it. There is no lasting satisfaction nor
security in rising and falling phenomena.
I read Jill Taylor's experience with a lot of interest. Although Buddhist
doctrine would immediately rule out that enlightenment is possible through a
physical cause (brain damage), I won't jump to conclusions yet. So how
close is her experience to Nirvana?
She experienced euphoria while seeing the world as constantly rising and
falling phenomena. Hmm, this is similar to seeing the nature of suffering.
How about cause of suffering? I don't remember her talking about it.
In Buddhism, Nirvana can be experienced only by cutting off the cause of
suffering: attachment to mind and matter due to wrong views of self, etc.
The experience of Nirvana is an irreversible event and you are changed
forever. Unshakable faith in the Four Noble Truth will arise as a result of
personal insight experience-when there is no cause of suffering(ignorance is
expelled by direct insight), suffering ceases. There is no mind or matter
rising or falling. Though Buddhist sutras describe it as "mind liberated
from this world", it's better to think of it as a metaphor rather than
literal description. There is no doubt about what happens after death,
either.
Since her description doesn't include these characteristics, I doubt that
she has experienced Nirvana in the Buddhist sense. But I didn't read her
book in detail, so I could have missed important clues.

not,
that

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Did you imply that "涅槃 is dying" while saying "I'm not going to die by
: realizing the truth" below?
: 涅槃 is translated as nirvana in English. I don't know which word (涅槃 or
: nirvana) is more authentic or closer to its original meaning in Buddha's
: language.
: I don't think that 涅槃 is dying though, although I can't say that it's not,
: either.
: In Jill Taylor's book "Stroke of Insight", she described her experiences
: during a stroke, where her left brain and right brain alternatively took
: charge of her, when she didn't feel the boundary of her own body, etc, that
avatar
T*y
59 楼
This is very good reading! Thank you!
I'd like to ask a few more questions:
1. "The experience of Nirvana is an irreversible event and you are changed
forever."
So who can be said to have achieved that? Is that only after dying or can it
happen when they are also alive?
2. "Unshakable faith in the Four Noble Truth will arise as a result of
personal insight experience-when there is no cause of suffering(ignorance is
expelled by direct insight), suffering ceases."
This direct insight seems to be very powerful, and I want to know how it's
defined, or whether you can describe it a bit more to let me know how it
differs from the usual wisdom that elderly or wise people have.
3. "There is no doubt about what happens after death, either."
Do you mean that people reach the state of nirvana automatically after death
since there's no mind any more, any way?
avatar
f*8
60 楼
不是，不过我那句话没考虑别人的感受和知识背景，让人误解了。
这恐怕是我需要注意的地方。解释一下：
其实那句话是个讽刺的意思，是说有些人，包括一些被人奉为导师的人，
都会认为如果成了阿罗汉就不能成佛，这个意思近于认为涅磐了就变成
某种程度的disability的存在了。(比如SeeU在本版就传达过印顺导师这么认定）
所以他们和其追随者就会劝人不要修成阿罗汉，不要解脱。否则成不了佛了。
我那句话的意思就是对这个意思的反话，意思类似于说：你怕什么，死不了！
正是他们散布的这种没有根据的恐惧，导致那些人都只敢谈佛法，不敢修佛法。
就好象那些国内共产风时那样，还没有打出粮食呢，就开始担心万一粮食太多，
以后吃不完怎么办。基本都是伪科学，伪佛法。但是这种人很有欺骗性。
这正是我一直批判的一点，他们劝人学佛，同时有暗暗地把那些梯子都抽掉，
告诉人说别成阿罗汉，成了阿罗汉就成不了佛了。
他们表面教的和潜意识里传达的都是两种不同的东西。
我就说，他们这不是根本上就否定佛教了么，因为佛难道不是教弟子都成罗汉，
都解脱的么？难道现在他们是比佛还更明白更伟大的一种导师么？怪了怪了。
不过另一方面，涅磐，寂灭，这些词，因为人们没有经历过，所以容易根据脑袋进行联
想，也是可以理解。这是另外的话，不表。
不过，这个观点我不想强加于人，只是不得不说，因为从来没想到，
自称学佛的人，竟然会这么教人。
但另一方面，我不会因此就认定别人引用的经典就也都是错的，
只能像耶稣当年对弟子谈到法利赛人那样，
你们可以听他们所说的，不过不要学他们所做的。

not,
that
to
her
Talk
better

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Did you imply that "涅槃 is dying" while saying "I'm not going to die by
: realizing the truth" below?
: 涅槃 is translated as nirvana in English. I don't know which word (涅槃 or
: nirvana) is more authentic or closer to its original meaning in Buddha's
: language.
: I don't think that 涅槃 is dying though, although I can't say that it's not,
: either.
: In Jill Taylor's book "Stroke of Insight", she described her experiences
: during a stroke, where her left brain and right brain alternatively took
: charge of her, when she didn't feel the boundary of her own body, etc, that
avatar
f*8
61 楼

我觉得你应该更审慎，标明这句话暂时只是自己的猜测，因为佛法并非完全是日常经验
可以推论。
猜测肯定是允许的，也是正常的，不过只要能把它和已经验证的结论分开就好。
所谓大胆假设，小心求证。
我个人的经历是，修行进步和师父关系极大，和Waichi关系也极大。
（虽然这里离不开个人的努力，但自力和外力是不可分的，有些已经超出日常经验）。
very
I agree, 原则上我同意一句话：真心遇真师，假心遇假师。
因为这句话看来肯定比“真心遇假师”要更合理。
所以从这点上来讲，把师父放一边是对的，
人只要认真检查自己到底要什么就够了，人只要保证自己是真的，
其他自然是真的。
所以人只要持续不断地搞明白自己究竟、到底、要干什么，就对了。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for letting me know.
: I don't like GYFM's dictatorship and idolization, but I can see how it may
: help advance some followers' practice, not because of QH's ability, but
: because of the believers' faith.
: Faith and the desire to learn and advance is the driving force for one to
: improve his/her practice, not the teachers, although good teachers are very
: helpful. When the student is ready, the teachers will appear.
avatar
w*r
62 楼
假设我们认为有
神秘的灵界，
有高层次的灵/力量可以为你加持，
但有能力的不见得是好的。
倡导或者不经意鼓励了个人崇拜的，
我觉得都要警惕。 这些是削弱你自己的灵性/力量而不是让你走上一条
正确的道路。
就好象毒品可以有能力使你HAPPY,但着迷了就是一条不归路。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我觉得你应该更审慎，标明这句话暂时只是自己的猜测，因为佛法并非完全是日常经验
: 可以推论。
: 猜测肯定是允许的，也是正常的，不过只要能把它和已经验证的结论分开就好。
: 所谓大胆假设，小心求证。
: 我个人的经历是，修行进步和师父关系极大，和Waichi关系也极大。
: （虽然这里离不开个人的努力，但自力和外力是不可分的，有些已经超出日常经验）。
: very
: I agree, 原则上我同意一句话：真心遇真师，假心遇假师。
: 因为这句话看来肯定比“真心遇假师”要更合理。
avatar
f*8
63 楼
你没注意我后面一段么，那个意思就是禅宗里讲的，佛来佛砍，魔来魔砍。
只要你保证永远对自己真实，就够了。
但是你能否做到，就再说了。
这是从信念上说。
如果从认知上说，所谓的神秘，只是你不懂，懂得的事情，都不是神秘。
电，在发现以前，是神秘的。
力，在牛顿以前也是神秘的，牛顿必须解释“为什么要用力这个概念”，
而现在人觉得天经地义。
所以说，学佛是大丈夫事，就是说，你要自己去发现，而不是生活在
老师修好的花园里。
当然，这并不是鼓励乱撞，人还是要对自己负责。要边学法理边实践。

）。

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 假设我们认为有
: 神秘的灵界，
: 有高层次的灵/力量可以为你加持，
: 但有能力的不见得是好的。
: 倡导或者不经意鼓励了个人崇拜的，
: 我觉得都要警惕。 这些是削弱你自己的灵性/力量而不是让你走上一条
: 正确的道路。
: 就好象毒品可以有能力使你HAPPY,但着迷了就是一条不归路。
avatar
S*U
64 楼

it
The Buddha and arahants have achieved that when they are alive. There are
different views on whether sotapanna (stream enterer) have achieved that or
not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna
is
This direct insight is different from ordinary wisdom in at least two
aspects: firstly, the mind is required to achieved samadhi (jhana) so it can
perceive directly what an un-concentrated mind can't perceive; secondly, it
directly perceive the incessant appearance and disappearance of mind and
matter(that of "yours" as well as of outer world) according to natural law,
so doubt about the nature of life disappears. Your perception of the world
is transformed completely by this direct insight. The world is neither
stable, nor as occupied by 'independent selves'.
death
since there's no mind any more, any way?
Not at all. I mean they have no doubt what happens after ordinary people die
(they will be reborn according to karma), and how the death of Buddha or
arahants are different from that.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: This is very good reading! Thank you!
: I'd like to ask a few more questions:
: 1. "The experience of Nirvana is an irreversible event and you are changed
: forever."
: So who can be said to have achieved that? Is that only after dying or can it
: happen when they are also alive?
: 2. "Unshakable faith in the Four Noble Truth will arise as a result of
: personal insight experience-when there is no cause of suffering(ignorance is
: expelled by direct insight), suffering ceases."
: This direct insight seems to be very powerful, and I want to know how it's
avatar
f*8
65 楼
关于dictatorship,必须区分负责任和控制。
表现上虽然有相似之处，不过实际指向是不同的，
一个师父负责任，是说他既然承诺了要带你穿过某些道路，到达目的地，
那么他就会这样执行而不改变，并且按此目的要求你。
一个人是控制的，暴君或独裁，是指，他只会按照自己的喜怒哀乐
任意指使别人。完全没有目的地，一切都跟着自己的情绪跑。
独裁者是此类。

very

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for letting me know.
: I don't like GYFM's dictatorship and idolization, but I can see how it may
: help advance some followers' practice, not because of QH's ability, but
: because of the believers' faith.
: Faith and the desire to learn and advance is the driving force for one to
: improve his/her practice, not the teachers, although good teachers are very
: helpful. When the student is ready, the teachers will appear.
avatar
T*y
66 楼
Thank you so much for all the info.
Now that for the people who achieved nirvana while they were alive, when
they died, where would they go? They'll be free from reincarnations, right?
But what would their purposes be to exist in that dimension? I am asking
because for normal people who will reincarnate anyway, life has a purpose to
learn, then how about them?

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
:
: it
: The Buddha and arahants have achieved that when they are alive. There are
: different views on whether sotapanna (stream enterer) have achieved that or
: not.
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna
: is
: This direct insight is different from ordinary wisdom in at least two
: aspects: firstly, the mind is required to achieved samadhi (jhana) so it can
: perceive directly what an un-concentrated mind can't perceive; secondly, it
avatar
T*y
67 楼
What I know about GYFM and QH is only from short reports online and the
discussions here, indeed I can't say much about it.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 关于dictatorship,必须区分负责任和控制。
: 表现上虽然有相似之处，不过实际指向是不同的，
: 一个师父负责任，是说他既然承诺了要带你穿过某些道路，到达目的地，
: 那么他就会这样执行而不改变，并且按此目的要求你。
: 一个人是控制的，暴君或独裁，是指，他只会按照自己的喜怒哀乐
: 任意指使别人。完全没有目的地，一切都跟着自己的情绪跑。
: 独裁者是此类。
:
: very
avatar
f*8
68 楼
我理解。
我也是碰到W和CH后，才知道世界上还是有真正能负责的人。
特别是跟W互动。其实我原来在国内呆那么多年，心里很不踏实。
说真的，没见过能负责的人。
人人都是泥菩萨过河，自己还照顾不了。怎么对别人负责。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: What I know about GYFM and QH is only from short reports online and the
: discussions here, indeed I can't say much about it.
avatar
J*s
69 楼
我觉得这么理解就是深刻理解和接受三法印
无常，苦，无我
彻底认识这三个必须在修观中才行的
runsun是对的

"

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I notice that this point is what runsun used to accuse waichi with. waichi
: seemed to have claimed the constancy of that witness, but runsun said that "
: it's totally not so, even that witness is instantly disappearing and
: appearing".
: I don't know how this understanding would affect my views on the world or
: myself yet.
: Could you tell me something more specific, or based on your personal
: experiences, about this point?
avatar
J*s
70 楼
佛法讲得一切的物质和精神现象都是因缘而生的
就是条件
我们人感觉到的thought即使一个，也是无数名法了，其中包括了一系列的过程
其中就有以前提到的受有分流影响的，就是潜意识影响
thought发生后再去选择的时候已经晚了其实
我们要是想benefit，在作意那一步就要有所作为的
姐姐可以看看
阿毗达摩概要精解

thoughts
believe

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Also, regarding this point below, I guess that I don't quite understand "因
: 缘生灭" yet. Could you explain a bit more?
: When I said earlier that "thoughts are not necessarily true", I meant that
: they might not reflect the reality, and hence false. However, those thoughts
: are "real", as they appeared in my head. They are like some statements,
: which I can choose to believe or not. Of course the thought that "I believe
: this thought" itself is also a thought, but I can choose the thoughts that
: benefit me, rather than sabotage me.
:
: 一真实的是其生灭的事实与其说你以前认为它们是绝对真实的，不如说你没有认识到它
avatar
f*8
71 楼
就我的经验来讲，runsun是错的，
但并不是每句话都错。这正是复杂所在。
如果他但凡真有实证，根本不可能再否定金刚经，坛经等等。
根本不可能否定禅宗。
禅宗公案不是说不清，而是不应该说，就好象佛的无记不是说不清，而是不应该说。
因为说了后，人们会从字面上去理会并且记忆，然后就自欺欺人认为自己真懂佛法了。
然后妄论大乘小乘。
要亲自实证的人，就会知道经典所言不虚。

waichi
that
or

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这么理解就是深刻理解和接受三法印
: 无常，苦，无我
: 彻底认识这三个必须在修观中才行的
: runsun是对的
:
: "
avatar
T*y
72 楼
Here's one more question on samadhi.
I understand that it's not a normal conscious state, and it takes long term
practice to really know what it is. At this stage though, I have a question
on how it's perceived by our bodies.
Everything we know/think/feel/perceive/... is not an abstract concept that
exists by itself, but through the perception of our bodies. It's somewhat
similar to the Quantum Mechanics in that the observer is needed to observe,
but it also changes the thing to be observed.
My question is how one can know that samadhi is achieved, or more
specifically how the body, made of flesh, is changed to help achieve that
state of samadhi chemically, psychologically, and physically.
Many contemporary researches on such issues focus on the how's and they have
provided some understanding.
For instance, when falling in love, one would produce much more hormones to
alter one's emotional state, appetite, perceptions, and so on. Those
hormones are the vehicles to carry out such tasks to make one change,
although they are not the ultimate cause of such changes.
Similarly, when Jill Taylor was under the stroke, her left brain lost its
rational control sporadically, and during those breaks, she felt as if her
body was without a boundary, as if she was blended with the universe (as we
can see, the left brain provides the functionality to define the ego and
self, which seems limiting but is also needed for one's survival in the
physical world). Her specific brain damage altered her physical perception,
and she reached an once-in-a-life-time conscious state. When she's recovered
from the stroke, she tried to remain in that beautiful state by letting go
many unnecessary thoughts and so on, and I think that she is still there.
Then in samadhi, I believe that the physical body should also reflect
certain changes, involving hormones, the suppression or activation of
certain parts of the brains, muscular or perspiratory changes, and so on.
Those changes reflect the "how", but not the ultimate "why". And yet I am
interested to know more about this "how". If this "how" is somewhat defined,
then either it's reached by samadhi, or by brain damage, or by other
potential causes, would they be different ways to reach nirvana?

can perceive directly what an un-concentrated mind can't perceive;

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
:
: it
: The Buddha and arahants have achieved that when they are alive. There are
: different views on whether sotapanna (stream enterer) have achieved that or
: not.
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna
: is
: This direct insight is different from ordinary wisdom in at least two
: aspects: firstly, the mind is required to achieved samadhi (jhana) so it can
: perceive directly what an un-concentrated mind can't perceive; secondly, it
avatar
J*s
73 楼
单有faith和desire在佛法里叫做有信无慧：p

very

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for letting me know.
: I don't like GYFM's dictatorship and idolization, but I can see how it may
: help advance some followers' practice, not because of QH's ability, but
: because of the believers' faith.
: Faith and the desire to learn and advance is the driving force for one to
: improve his/her practice, not the teachers, although good teachers are very
: helpful. When the student is ready, the teachers will appear.
avatar
J*s
74 楼
Her experience was not Nirvana
：-）

word
early
and

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
: Nirvana is the Sanskrit word used in Buddhism, and English adopted that word
: . 涅盘 is the usual Chinese translation. There are 2 types of 涅盘 in early
: Buddhism: one while an arahant is still alive, another after he dies. The
: difference is whether he still has a body in this world.
: The meaning of "nirvana" is "cessation of suffering" in early Buddhism,
: where "suffering" includes the coarse, as well as subtle, suffering. The
: subtle suffering is always being oppressed by the rise and fall of mind and
: matter; you have no control over it. There is no lasting satisfaction nor
: security in rising and falling phenomena.
: I read Jill Taylor's experience with a lot of interest. Although Buddhist
avatar
J*s
75 楼
你对第二个问题的回答不够准确：P

or
can
it

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
:
: it
: The Buddha and arahants have achieved that when they are alive. There are
: different views on whether sotapanna (stream enterer) have achieved that or
: not.
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna
: is
: This direct insight is different from ordinary wisdom in at least two
: aspects: firstly, the mind is required to achieved samadhi (jhana) so it can
: perceive directly what an un-concentrated mind can't perceive; secondly, it
avatar
J*s
76 楼
Life has a purpose to learn不一定成立
如果不成立你前面的陈述和推理都可以被推翻了：-）

?
to

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thank you so much for all the info.
: Now that for the people who achieved nirvana while they were alive, when
: they died, where would they go? They'll be free from reincarnations, right?
: But what would their purposes be to exist in that dimension? I am asking
: because for normal people who will reincarnate anyway, life has a purpose to
: learn, then how about them?
avatar
J*s
77 楼
He can not answer your question， haha

term
question
,

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Here's one more question on samadhi.
: I understand that it's not a normal conscious state, and it takes long term
: practice to really know what it is. At this stage though, I have a question
: on how it's perceived by our bodies.
: Everything we know/think/feel/perceive/... is not an abstract concept that
: exists by itself, but through the perception of our bodies. It's somewhat
: similar to the Quantum Mechanics in that the observer is needed to observe,
: but it also changes the thing to be observed.
: My question is how one can know that samadhi is achieved, or more
: specifically how the body, made of flesh, is changed to help achieve that
avatar
T*y
78 楼
:-) I should say that I believe that my life, or reincarnations, if any, for
myself, has a purpose for my soul to learn, either being a Buddhist or not.
I'd like to know whether all souls have a purpose or whether Buddha(s) have
a purpose being in nirvana. Would they still help others as souls? I don't
think that they are idle, but rather they manifest themselves in some forms,
such as those spiritual guides who are making differences in peoples' lives
. What are they for?

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: Life has a purpose to learn不一定成立
: 如果不成立你前面的陈述和推理都可以被推翻了：-）
:
: ?
: to
avatar
f*8
79 楼
对。
不过要知道什么叫慧，以及佛法为什么讲信-愿-行。
什么叫行？行是指实修。而佛法的慧是通过禅定后才有的。
没有实修得来的，只是佛法知识，而不是智慧。
所以：
没有实修的人，虽然嘴里说佛法，其实是既没有信，也没有慧的。
哪怕他能背一千本佛书，也是书袋而已。

may
to

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 单有faith和desire在佛法里叫做有信无慧：p
:
: very
avatar
J*s
80 楼
你说谁呢？哈哈
据我所知人家实修的不错，：-）

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 对。
: 不过要知道什么叫慧，以及佛法为什么讲信-愿-行。
: 什么叫行？行是指实修。而佛法的慧是通过禅定后才有的。
: 没有实修得来的，只是佛法知识，而不是智慧。
: 所以：
: 没有实修的人，虽然嘴里说佛法，其实是既没有信，也没有慧的。
: 哪怕他能背一千本佛书，也是书袋而已。
:
: may
: to
avatar
f*8
81 楼
实修的人竟然否定金刚经，坛经。
我就不知道修哪里去了。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 你说谁呢？哈哈
: 据我所知人家实修的不错，：-）
avatar
J*s
82 楼
关键是having a purpose是主动还是被动的
如果成佛也可以算一种purpose的话，那么可以说绝大部分的人没有：）
佛陀成佛的时候purpose应该是灭苦，Nirvana不是purpose，Nirvana是一种实现灭苦的
状态

for
not.
have
t
forms,
lives

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: :-) I should say that I believe that my life, or reincarnations, if any, for
: myself, has a purpose for my soul to learn, either being a Buddhist or not.
: I'd like to know whether all souls have a purpose or whether Buddha(s) have
: a purpose being in nirvana. Would they still help others as souls? I don't
: think that they are idle, but rather they manifest themselves in some forms,
: such as those spiritual guides who are making differences in peoples' lives
: . What are they for?
avatar
J*s
83 楼
他们说得比你说的有道理的多，即使是逻辑和论证这个层次：P

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 实修的人竟然否定金刚经，坛经。
: 我就不知道修哪里去了。
avatar
f*8
84 楼
正好是match了想象力的误导。
他逻辑上说的很好（顶多是似乎很好），
而实际上看不懂大乘经典，这本身就说明他在用想象填充那些空缺。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 他们说得比你说的有道理的多，即使是逻辑和论证这个层次：P
avatar
l*g
85 楼

如果你修来修去，最后真的发现大乘不可信呢？

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 正好是match了想象力的误导。
: 他逻辑上说的很好（顶多是似乎很好），
: 而实际上看不懂大乘经典，这本身就说明他在用想象填充那些空缺。
avatar
f*8
86 楼

我本来就不是因为确认了金刚经才修的，
而是修了以后，发现跟它说的Match上了。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 如果你修来修去，最后真的发现大乘不可信呢？
avatar
l*g
87 楼

兴许你和以前那些写经的都进入了同一误区（魔）呢？

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我本来就不是因为确认了金刚经才修的，
: 而是修了以后，发现跟它说的Match上了。
avatar
f*8
88 楼
这就要到处验证了。
你也知道w写的四证。我看此外没别的办法了。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 兴许你和以前那些写经的都进入了同一误区（魔）呢？
avatar
l*g
89 楼

我是说你没有资格如此就说seeU反大乘，反金刚经，就是没有体验或是不懂佛法。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 这就要到处验证了。
: 你也知道w写的四证。我看此外没别的办法了。
avatar
f*8
90 楼

这里有差别，
比如如果我在某个屋子看见了某个东西，我就可以说我看见了,那屋子确实有此物。
而别人没看见，他可以说“他没看见”，他不可以说那个屋子没那个东西。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 我是说你没有资格如此就说seeU反大乘，反金刚经，就是没有体验或是不懂佛法。
avatar
w*r
91 楼
虽然很多时候我和FREEMAN的思维方式差很远，
但我现在觉得要否定经典经文还是要慎重。
而且我觉得小乘的主体思想（从RUNSUN/SEEU那里看的）
要挑起宗教救世的责任也担不起。 大乘的思想我觉得是进步。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 正好是match了想象力的误导。
: 他逻辑上说的很好（顶多是似乎很好），
: 而实际上看不懂大乘经典，这本身就说明他在用想象填充那些空缺。
avatar
l*g
92 楼

见过精神病人吗？医生不可以去医治？

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 这里有差别，
: 比如如果我在某个屋子看见了某个东西，我就可以说我看见了,那屋子确实有此物。
: 而别人没看见，他可以说“他没看见”，他不可以说那个屋子没那个东西。
avatar
f*8
93 楼

这就要看个人了。
一个方面是，到底依靠经典还是依靠一个缺乏修证的人判断。
（所谓经典，就是历代高人认证了的）
当然，正信非信，最后要看自己是否受用（不被拘），越解放越好。
当然我知道这个问题仅仅口说是困难的，否则就无所谓未证言证的麻烦了。
所以还是各自珍重吧。只要自己安心就是好的。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 见过精神病人吗？医生不可以去医治？
avatar
f*8
94 楼
在我看来，大乘经典和禅宗公案正好起个视力表的作用，
因为小乘经典已经被人当成视力表一样背诵下来了。比新东方还新东方。
你问个问题，他都能回答，也不知道到底是自己真的看见的，还是脑袋里背诵出来的。
上、下、左、右！涅磐，寂灭！视力表背得滚瓜烂熟。
现在拿个大乘视力表，他一看，认不出来。就露馅了。

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 虽然很多时候我和FREEMAN的思维方式差很远，
: 但我现在觉得要否定经典经文还是要慎重。
: 而且我觉得小乘的主体思想（从RUNSUN/SEEU那里看的）
: 要挑起宗教救世的责任也担不起。 大乘的思想我觉得是进步。
avatar
l*g
95 楼

你知道为啥有些人入魔而不返吗？我觉得说不准因为还挺受用。
反正你放不下反对seeU的心。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 在我看来，大乘经典和禅宗公案正好起个视力表的作用，
: 因为小乘经典已经被人当成视力表一样背诵下来了。比新东方还新东方。
: 你问个问题，他都能回答，也不知道到底是自己真的看见的，还是脑袋里背诵出来的。
: 上、下、左、右！涅磐，寂灭！视力表背得滚瓜烂熟。
: 现在拿个大乘视力表，他一看，认不出来。就露馅了。
avatar
f*8
96 楼

我有一点点，本来我是说，读经典也是好的，
也一直在每次发表反驳错误言论的看法后，
不忘补充一句说，佛法知识也是有用的。
不想让人留下印象好像我在反对学习佛法知识。
本来我是不想涉及到他的，因为有些根本点我根本就觉得不值一驳。
（比如这一类人都是不修不证，就敢大发议论，妄评经典，大乘小乘，
本身就是方法论有问题，根本不懂真知到底应该从哪里来。）
不过最近一次是他又先无端攻击我们，说我们是外道什么的。
我一看，如果说外道，当然他是外道、不上道。既然我正好还在这里，
不能不出声给出一些道理来。
只是让人知道还有更有根据的道理，说法。事情值得仔细衡量。
你看看我给出的道理毕竟更有道理，更符合大乘小乘，而不是像他们那样，
让佛教内部左手打右手，然后双手打头。
但是我还是要说，如果任何人说的佛法知识有用，
都不应该升起排斥的心。不可因人废言。
-----------------------------------
不过我确实应该放下，不能指望世界上没有妄论妄言。辩来辩去。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你知道为啥有些人入魔而不返吗？我觉得说不准因为还挺受用。
: 反正你放不下反对seeU的心。
avatar
T*y
97 楼
"比如佛经是指月的手指，不是月亮，应该透过指头看月亮。"
This is the best analogy.
Carl Jung said the same thing about his study. He just tried to hold the
mirrors to reflect the light in the center. He could have inconsistencies
between the mirrors that he made up with, but the central light is there.
The Jungian followers commented that Jung's approaches or models are like a
map in the uncharted area (subconscious), however the map is the not the
area. Another person may find it easier to explore his own area, hopefully
with the help of the map, but he can definitely find new things in this area
, or new regions in this wide area.
Practice really is a personal thing. Others can guide, comment, or criticize
, but unless one knows it by heart but not just by mind, it's not known yet.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 在我看来，大乘经典和禅宗公案正好起个视力表的作用，
: 因为小乘经典已经被人当成视力表一样背诵下来了。比新东方还新东方。
: 你问个问题，他都能回答，也不知道到底是自己真的看见的，还是脑袋里背诵出来的。
: 上、下、左、右！涅磐，寂灭！视力表背得滚瓜烂熟。
: 现在拿个大乘视力表，他一看，认不出来。就露馅了。
avatar
J*s
98 楼
zan!
I like 'but unless one knows it by heart but not just by mind, it's not
known yet'
:p

a
area

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: "比如佛经是指月的手指，不是月亮，应该透过指头看月亮。"
: This is the best analogy.
: Carl Jung said the same thing about his study. He just tried to hold the
: mirrors to reflect the light in the center. He could have inconsistencies
: between the mirrors that he made up with, but the central light is there.
: The Jungian followers commented that Jung's approaches or models are like a
: map in the uncharted area (subconscious), however the map is the not the
: area. Another person may find it easier to explore his own area, hopefully
: with the help of the map, but he can definitely find new things in this area
: , or new regions in this wide area.
avatar
f*8
99 楼
说着同样的道理，我的就不Ma，TrueStory的就直接Mark,
看来我的做法上还有待改进.
哈哈，我不是在乎那个M. 不过还是有待改进。

inconsistencies
like
hopefully

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: zan!
: I like 'but unless one knows it by heart but not just by mind, it's not
: known yet'
: :p
:
: a
: area
avatar
J*s
100 楼
hahaha
:P

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 说着同样的道理，我的就不Ma，TrueStory的就直接Mark,
: 看来我的做法上还有待改进.
: 哈哈，我不是在乎那个M. 不过还是有待改进。
:
: inconsistencies
: like
: hopefully
avatar
l*g
101 楼

想听实话吗？
如果我本不知道gyfm，你这样只会使我更加远离。
管你讲啥道理，谁管你说的对不对。
大乘，小乘也罢，毕竟公认。
你是越描越黑。心里没鬼，管他那末多。
所以我总是觉得自己很幸运，当时版面讨论的是实修，不是啥法门。
你没有实力，只是在宣泄，适得其反。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 说着同样的道理，我的就不Ma，TrueStory的就直接Mark,
: 看来我的做法上还有待改进.
: 哈哈，我不是在乎那个M. 不过还是有待改进。
:
: inconsistencies
: like
: hopefully
avatar
l*g
102 楼

这末简单，她喜欢她，不喜欢你，不喜法门。别瞎忙了。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 说着同样的道理，我的就不Ma，TrueStory的就直接Mark,
: 看来我的做法上还有待改进.
: 哈哈，我不是在乎那个M. 不过还是有待改进。
:
: inconsistencies
: like
: hopefully
avatar
w*r
103 楼
不被她M 还好点，
她把这个当权利， 以为别人就该对她感恩。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 这末简单，她喜欢她，不喜欢你，不喜法门。别瞎忙了。
avatar
f*8
104 楼

公认什么啊，我完全没有说大乘小乘不对啊，
都是他们在攻击自己扭曲了的大乘啊。
我根本没描啊。我只是说他们不懂大乘，胡乱批判，
我有不需要描。我正是说大乘小乘我都承认的。是别人根据自己的个人见解，
胡乱挑动大小乘之间的攻击。
我多少有点怀疑自己的效果，所以本来是想保持quiet的。
不过我本不是为了宣传什么门派，
我的门派之见其实比别人少（但个人习惯不是没有）。
另外，我没有实力，这我也想过，即使不论目的，
waichi在去除别人的错误知识的时候，能引人发心，这是我们做不到的。
我最近密集发文的外部理由只有两个。
1. Truestory 提到一本书 我看了以后高兴，
忍不住，觉得也该share一点。
2. 有人无端攻击我们外道，我只好反驳一下。其实当然也不是必须反驳。
我反驳的时候，也不是说因为你属于某个流派所以你是外道。
而是说，因为你这种方法，所以是不合佛的根本教导的。
这样说，其实不是门派之见。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 这末简单，她喜欢她，不喜欢你，不喜法门。别瞎忙了。
avatar
l*g
105 楼

当权利有点。以为别人就该对她感恩不至于吧。

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 不被她M 还好点，
: 她把这个当权利， 以为别人就该对她感恩。
avatar
f*8
106 楼
我那是开玩笑，这点都看不出来？ 难道我真的是在意那个伪币么？
其实我并不认为她就不对，我还是认为iris的目的上是在追求真实的，有价值的东西，
通常不M的原因，可能有个人原因，也可能有认识上的原因。
个人原因可能是，我态度不是很平和，即使说的是对的，里面也掺杂了不好的气氛，
对方当然就偏不愿意被强迫。呵呵。
认识上的原因当然可能是因为，确实不认同。这也很正常。
----------------------
我这段话的意思表示我已经认识到自己的问题了。此外还有什么意思么？
我觉得Iris 都已经看出我这层意思了。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 当权利有点。以为别人就该对她感恩不至于吧。
avatar
J*s
107 楼
same feeling here！
：p

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 我那是开玩笑，这点都看不出来？ 难道我真的是在意那个伪币么？
: 其实我并不认为她就不对，我还是认为iris的目的上是在追求真实的，有价值的东西，
: 通常不M的原因，可能有个人原因，也可能有认识上的原因。
: 个人原因可能是，我态度不是很平和，即使说的是对的，里面也掺杂了不好的气氛，
: 对方当然就偏不愿意被强迫。呵呵。
: 认识上的原因当然可能是因为，确实不认同。这也很正常。
: ----------------------
: 我这段话的意思表示我已经认识到自己的问题了。此外还有什么意思么？
: 我觉得Iris 都已经看出我这层意思了。
avatar
l*g
108 楼

多发文或是反驳自己看不惯的，没啥。
只是觉得你成见大，反驳实在是弱的很。
顾忌自己太多。没有站在对方立场看看。
seeU修慈心观，可引小动物环绕，你做的到吗？

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 我那是开玩笑，这点都看不出来？ 难道我真的是在意那个伪币么？
: 其实我并不认为她就不对，我还是认为iris的目的上是在追求真实的，有价值的东西，
: 通常不M的原因，可能有个人原因，也可能有认识上的原因。
: 个人原因可能是，我态度不是很平和，即使说的是对的，里面也掺杂了不好的气氛，
: 对方当然就偏不愿意被强迫。呵呵。
: 认识上的原因当然可能是因为，确实不认同。这也很正常。
: ----------------------
: 我这段话的意思表示我已经认识到自己的问题了。此外还有什么意思么？
: 我觉得Iris 都已经看出我这层意思了。
avatar
T*y
109 楼
"seeU修慈心观，可引小动物环绕"
I want to know more about this!

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 多发文或是反驳自己看不惯的，没啥。
: 只是觉得你成见大，反驳实在是弱的很。
: 顾忌自己太多。没有站在对方立场看看。
: seeU修慈心观，可引小动物环绕，你做的到吗？
avatar
l*g
110 楼

看不出来是开玩笑。
我看出来的是，你喜欢Iris。 ：）
你是法门，任谁都会对mark你的贴有所顾忌，况且你老针对她的朋友seeU。
当然你的朋友matrix除外，他会毫无顾忌mark你的贴的。粉丝嘛。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 我那是开玩笑，这点都看不出来？ 难道我真的是在意那个伪币么？
: 其实我并不认为她就不对，我还是认为iris的目的上是在追求真实的，有价值的东西，
: 通常不M的原因，可能有个人原因，也可能有认识上的原因。
: 个人原因可能是，我态度不是很平和，即使说的是对的，里面也掺杂了不好的气氛，
: 对方当然就偏不愿意被强迫。呵呵。
: 认识上的原因当然可能是因为，确实不认同。这也很正常。
: ----------------------
: 我这段话的意思表示我已经认识到自己的问题了。此外还有什么意思么？
: 我觉得Iris 都已经看出我这层意思了。
avatar
l*g
111 楼

seeU以前讲过一些修法，体会。你直接问他吧。
他看我不顺眼。我是没法让他再开口地。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: "seeU修慈心观，可引小动物环绕"
: I want to know more about this!
avatar
f*8
112 楼

这个事情，我注意到了，
不过心理现象总是太复杂，所以只是提供多一个视角。
慈心，不是不好，应该学。
如果要学，我就学Oops, 她的心很善良透明，据说她能
修到很多肉眼看不见的众生喜欢到她身体那里穿来穿去，
那些众生也不知道为什么，不知道那里是个人，只是觉得那里能量很舒服，大概。
她也不是故意吸引人，只是自然散发的能量。
不过另一方面，佛教里有故事解释，引小动物过来，这本是觉受方面的事情。
但不可作为究竟。尤其是，如果通过觉受，把人引来后，
不能教人正确、真实的道理，那还是在觉受中打滚。
这就是为什么有人号称学佛关心人，但最后把佛教改成“人间”佛教。
看上去好象是关心人，其实是引人在觉受中打滚，脱离解脱道。
（所以这个事情比较复杂，并非一个人的做法就全对或全错）
据说，修到究竟，小鸟是不知道“你”在此，所有动物都自在。
因为完全无我的人，周围的小动物可以完全感受不到。
当然，这里有我无我，慈心里是否有平常心。我外人不好判断。
----------------------------
另一点，对我个人来说了原来太忽略日常的人情互动，
这是一个误区，需要改。我不能因为只求干枯的道理，而忽略这方面。
多谢。
就针对性来讲，我觉得临济的四料简还是比较科学的，
看人情况，看碟下菜，并非上来就上最究竟的道理。也是好的。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: seeU以前讲过一些修法，体会。你直接问他吧。
: 他看我不顺眼。我是没法让他再开口地。
avatar
w*r
113 楼
其实你也不是什么高僧大德，除了幼稚的在一些人后面跟帖赞外，
或者莫名其妙批评别人一通外，
也没有什么高深的认识，既然FREEMAN都说了，
为什么就不可以随手MARK了， 鼓励别人，也是功德。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: same feeling here！
: ：p
avatar
T*y
114 楼
I searched SeeU's posts on this board, and he has posted a lot:
孝顺父母的反思
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31448527_3.html
岁次庚寅，时序小雪 (belated /pat/pat)
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31450121_3.html
慈心与男女感情
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31457571_3.html
more relevant discussions:
Death or reincarnation:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Wisdom/31464373.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31464995_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31465041_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31476075_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31484265_3.html
others:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31474603_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31474925_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31475033_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31479305_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31484483_3.html
But still, I haven't found the one talking about his own experiences. SeeU,
can you talk more about that?

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: seeU以前讲过一些修法，体会。你直接问他吧。
: 他看我不顺眼。我是没法让他再开口地。
avatar
l*g
115 楼

看人情况，看碟下菜。这个好。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 这个事情，我注意到了，
: 不过心理现象总是太复杂，所以只是提供多一个视角。
: 慈心，不是不好，应该学。
: 如果要学，我就学Oops, 她的心很善良透明，据说她能
: 修到很多肉眼看不见的众生喜欢到她身体那里穿来穿去，
: 那些众生也不知道为什么，不知道那里是个人，只是觉得那里能量很舒服，大概。
: 她也不是故意吸引人，只是自然散发的能量。
: 不过另一方面，佛教里有故事解释，引小动物过来，这本是觉受方面的事情。
: 但不可作为究竟。尤其是，如果通过觉受，把人引来后，
avatar
f*8
116 楼

你应该检查自己的文字障。
西，
因为我觉得Iris是在search状态，而SeeU心里有很深的执认，
谦恭的背后是一种对真实的完全漠视。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 看人情况，看碟下菜。这个好。
avatar
w*r
117 楼
你只要不要老提WAICHI,QH就好了。
你已经修了这么多年， 为什么不可以自信的把你的认识
就好好说出来。
大家想看到你自己的东西。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 你应该检查自己的文字障。
: 西，
: 因为我觉得Iris是在search状态，而SeeU心里有很深的执认，
: 谦恭的背后是一种对真实的完全漠视。
avatar
l*g
118 楼

实际上我认为Iris的执认恐怕一点不比seeU少。
自信嘛。
没看出来SeeU谦恭。一副领导老师的样子。
另外，他只是在漠视你认可的真实。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 你应该检查自己的文字障。
: 西，
: 因为我觉得Iris是在search状态，而SeeU心里有很深的执认，
: 谦恭的背后是一种对真实的完全漠视。
avatar
Y*u
119 楼
同感， 他在这里讲的我一点没看出来跟青海有什么关系。。可是他好像要不时不时地
联系一下就不自信似的。。
有些说的蛮好的， 鼓励一下。。：）

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 你只要不要老提WAICHI,QH就好了。
: 你已经修了这么多年， 为什么不可以自信的把你的认识
: 就好好说出来。
: 大家想看到你自己的东西。
avatar
J*s
120 楼
我从来不认为自己是高僧大德，我在这个版就是学习的，而且我确实学习了很多东西
我也从来不觉得自己幼稚，我对自己的看法不会因为你的评价而改变的
我赞美别人真心诚意，我乐意，我喜欢表达自己对别人的赞美
我是不是在批评别人是你的评价，我在表达看法而已
我不认为自己的认识高深，我只表达自己的认识
至于我怎么对待freeman08，他满意比你满意重要
说的够清楚了么？

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 其实你也不是什么高僧大德，除了幼稚的在一些人后面跟帖赞外，
: 或者莫名其妙批评别人一通外，
: 也没有什么高深的认识，既然FREEMAN都说了，
: 为什么就不可以随手MARK了， 鼓励别人，也是功德。
avatar
J*s
121 楼
为什么对你们来说评价别人永远比讨论问题重要呢？：p

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 实际上我认为Iris的执认恐怕一点不比seeU少。
: 自信嘛。
: 没看出来SeeU谦恭。一副领导老师的样子。
: 另外，他只是在漠视你认可的真实。
avatar
l*g
122 楼

都重要啊。人，可得认清楚，要不受了气，都不知道咋受的。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 为什么对你们来说评价别人永远比讨论问题重要呢？：p
avatar
J*s
123 楼
佛法不是这么教导的
佛法说没有人可以伤害我们除了我们自己
佛法说我们不可能伤害别人的时候不伤害自己
何必对此斤斤计较？
：p

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 都重要啊。人，可得认清楚，要不受了气，都不知道咋受的。
avatar
w*r
124 楼
他已经说了为什么meiyouM上， 因为他说的道理和别人一样。
---
“说的够清楚了么”
avatar
l*g
125 楼

噢。我就是好奇一点。我喜欢看见人们展示自己的本来面目。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 佛法不是这么教导的
: 佛法说没有人可以伤害我们除了我们自己
: 佛法说我们不可能伤害别人的时候不伤害自己
: 何必对此斤斤计较？
: ：p
avatar
J*s
126 楼
freeman08后来的回帖您没看见麽？
你是他麽？
哈哈
我都知道他对我什么印象，他说的也很清楚了
需要您来代言麽？

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 他已经说了为什么meiyouM上， 因为他说的道理和别人一样。
: ---
: “说的够清楚了么”
avatar
J*s
127 楼
那学佛就学歪了：p

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 噢。我就是好奇一点。我喜欢看见人们展示自己的本来面目。
avatar
l*g
128 楼

你不都说了嘛。权利。

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 他已经说了为什么meiyouM上， 因为他说的道理和别人一样。
: ---
: “说的够清楚了么”
avatar
J*s
129 楼
wrong！

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 你不都说了嘛。权利。
avatar
l*g
130 楼

她不是他，可是她是她，当然有她的观点，如泥一样。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: freeman08后来的回帖您没看见麽？
: 你是他麽？
: 哈哈
: 我都知道他对我什么印象，他说的也很清楚了
: 需要您来代言麽？
avatar
J*s
131 楼
完全可以：）
我不在乎她怎么评价我
不会再回她帖子的

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 她不是他，可是她是她，当然有她的观点，如泥一样。
avatar
Y*u
132 楼
一个回帖０.１个伪币， 等攒够１０个， Freeman就有包子拉。。
avatar
l*g
133 楼

哦。歪就先歪着一点。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 那学佛就学歪了：p
avatar
w*r
134 楼
这个根本不是什么他对你的印象问题，
而是别人问你你怎么不MARK你的态度有问题。
板斧不是让你来SHOWOFF的， 或者让别人认可你的，
而是你为大家服务 在适当时候通过MARK认可大家的付出的。
什么都是关于你吗？ 关与别人对你的映像？等等？

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: freeman08后来的回帖您没看见麽？
: 你是他麽？
: 哈哈
: 我都知道他对我什么印象，他说的也很清楚了
: 需要您来代言麽？
avatar
J*s
135 楼
如果您觉得针对我很有乐趣，大可以随便
我该怎么做自己还是怎么做自己

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 这个根本不是什么他对你的印象问题，
: 而是别人问你你怎么不MARK你的态度有问题。
: 板斧不是让你来SHOWOFF的， 或者让别人认可你的，
: 而是你为大家服务 在适当时候通过MARK认可大家的付出的。
: 什么都是关于你吗？ 关与别人对你的映像？等等？
avatar
J*s
136 楼
他会来回答姐姐你的问题的：p

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I searched SeeU's posts on this board, and he has posted a lot:
: 孝顺父母的反思
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31448527_3.html
: 岁次庚寅，时序小雪 (belated /pat/pat)
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31450121_3.html
: 慈心与男女感情
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31457571_3.html
: more relevant discussions:
: Death or reincarnation:
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Wisdom/31464373.html
avatar
l*g
137 楼

不是权利，那是啥？

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: wrong！
avatar
l*g
138 楼

这个，可以再改进一点，看看自己，若是真没事，就好。
这个有点像是yisu提到的‘着相’。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 完全可以：）
: 我不在乎她怎么评价我
: 不会再回她帖子的
avatar
l*g
139 楼

哈哈哈。。。她没有刻意针对你啊。就是发表一下看法。
当领导的，要听各种意见的。不信你问问seeU。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果您觉得针对我很有乐趣，大可以随便
: 我该怎么做自己还是怎么做自己
avatar
J*s
140 楼
：-）

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 哈哈哈。。。她没有刻意针对你啊。就是发表一下看法。
: 当领导的，要听各种意见的。不信你问问seeU。
avatar
a*u
141 楼
现在版面有讨论修行的吗？貌似比较像查经班

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 哈哈哈。。。她没有刻意针对你啊。就是发表一下看法。
: 当领导的，要听各种意见的。不信你问问seeU。
avatar
l*g
142 楼

唉。少。几个有实修体验的，也不来了。

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 现在版面有讨论修行的吗？貌似比较像查经班
avatar
a*u
143 楼
不是说seeu修慈心观吗，应该算有实修体验吧
对了，为什么我一冥想就会睡着啊

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 唉。少。几个有实修体验的，也不来了。
avatar
J*s
144 楼
昏沉，掉举：-）

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 不是说seeu修慈心观吗，应该算有实修体验吧
: 对了，为什么我一冥想就会睡着啊
avatar
a*u
145 楼
有什么办法不睡？

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 昏沉，掉举：-）
avatar
Y*u
146 楼
先睡一觉. :)

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 有什么办法不睡？
avatar
a*u
147 楼
我早上睡醒了可是很多事情，哪里又功夫去冥想了。。。

【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 先睡一觉. :)
avatar
Y*u
148 楼
饿的时候才需要吃饭, 最应该冥想的时候就是事多的时候， 你没事安安静静地冥想个
啥。。:)

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 我早上睡醒了可是很多事情，哪里又功夫去冥想了。。。
avatar
a*u
149 楼
我就是闲的无聊，甚至灌水都没兴趣的时候，才会想到冥想
事多的话就得去做事儿啊

【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 饿的时候才需要吃饭, 最应该冥想的时候就是事多的时候， 你没事安安静静地冥想个
: 啥。。:)
avatar
Y*u
150 楼
你得把冥想也当一件事才行， 或者干事的时候你也可以冥想也行..

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 我就是闲的无聊，甚至灌水都没兴趣的时候，才会想到冥想
: 事多的话就得去做事儿啊
avatar
T*y
153 楼
Which IDs are 有实修体验的, in your opinion? Can you list them or point me
to some of their earlier posts? Thanks in advance!

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 唉。少。几个有实修体验的，也不来了。
avatar
t*n
154 楼
干事的时候，能认真做事，不乱想就好

【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】
: 你得把冥想也当一件事才行， 或者干事的时候你也可以冥想也行..
avatar
J*s
155 楼
meditation可以帮助我们提升我们做事情时候心的品质的：p

【在 t********n 的大作中提到】
: 干事的时候，能认真做事，不乱想就好
avatar
t*n
156 楼
不想乱, 不乱想

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: meditation可以帮助我们提升我们做事情时候心的品质的：p
avatar
J*s
157 楼
哈，我说的是每天meditation比如早晨起来1个小时
可以提升我们日常生活工作里面做事情时候心的品质的
这种方法对付我们不能concentrated，喜欢胡思乱想很有效
本身学习佛法就是purify我们的心的
：）

【在 t********n 的大作中提到】
: 不想乱, 不乱想
avatar
t*n
158 楼
我答复的是关于做事要专心，别乱想

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 哈，我说的是每天meditation比如早晨起来1个小时
: 可以提升我们日常生活工作里面做事情时候心的品质的
: 这种方法对付我们不能concentrated，喜欢胡思乱想很有效
: 本身学习佛法就是purify我们的心的
: ：）
avatar
S*U
159 楼
Functional MRI has shed some light on the effect of meditation on the brain
http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/research.html
Study on mindfulness has also found that mindfulness practice is most
effective in perceiving micro-expressions of others; even better than
trained special agents (aka spies :-) who need to read people quickly as a
profession for quality intelligence.
These pioneering research are at an early stage and no paradigm has emerged
yet. At a minimum, they validate the effect of Buddhist meditation by some
objective tests.
Interestingly, Buddhist teaching describe the material change as the result,
and not the cause, of samadhi. The cause of samadhi is a change in mental
states by overcoming the 5 hindrances. The first stage of samadhi, first
jhana, has 5 prominent mental characteristics: initial application of mind,
sustained application of mind, rapture, joy, and one-pointedness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism#The_Rupa_J
The Buddhist explanation is that jhana-mind is subtler than the ordinary
state of mind, and produces lighter, purer and brighter material. The
subjective feeling is the mind is joyful, stable, capable, and bright, and
the physical body also feels light and stable. After I lost my samadhi, the
heaviness and coarseness of the physical body became apparent in comparison,
which I didn't experience before. My personal experience of access
concentration verifies the descriptions in Buddhist teaching.

term
question
,

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Here's one more question on samadhi.
: I understand that it's not a normal conscious state, and it takes long term
: practice to really know what it is. At this stage though, I have a question
: on how it's perceived by our bodies.
: Everything we know/think/feel/perceive/... is not an abstract concept that
: exists by itself, but through the perception of our bodies. It's somewhat
: similar to the Quantum Mechanics in that the observer is needed to observe,
: but it also changes the thing to be observed.
: My question is how one can know that samadhi is achieved, or more
: specifically how the body, made of flesh, is changed to help achieve that
avatar
J*s
160 楼
好得，我不小心引申了一下。：p

【在 t********n 的大作中提到】
: 我答复的是关于做事要专心，别乱想
avatar
T*y
161 楼
Yes, I heard about the FMRI monitoring on the meditating brains.
Similarly, 禅武医 shows its effects on human health.
http://www.chanwuyi.org/index.do
http://www.chanwuyi.com/
When 德建禅师 came to my town, I went to his talk. One of his students was
also there to talk (陈瑞燕 香港中文大学心理学系教授、博士生导师、心智综合复
康中心总监). They belong to 少林. She used to publish quite a few papers on
this kind of research. They talked about the most basic approach: breathing.
Regarding this "Interestingly, Buddhist teaching describe the material
change as the result", I totally agree. I want to know the how's, although I
'd also like to know the why's later.

brain
result,

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】
: Functional MRI has shed some light on the effect of meditation on the brain
: http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/research.html
: Study on mindfulness has also found that mindfulness practice is most
: effective in perceiving micro-expressions of others; even better than
: trained special agents (aka spies :-) who need to read people quickly as a
: profession for quality intelligence.
: These pioneering research are at an early stage and no paradigm has emerged
: yet. At a minimum, they validate the effect of Buddhist meditation by some
: objective tests.
: Interestingly, Buddhist teaching describe the material change as the result,
avatar
t*n
162 楼
a smart people like to think, sometime is bothered by thinking

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】
: 好得，我不小心引申了一下。：p
avatar
l*g
163 楼

他不喜欢将自己的体验，比较‘迷信’。
很多人一放松就会困。过一阵就好了。

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 不是说seeu修慈心观吗，应该算有实修体验吧
: 对了，为什么我一冥想就会睡着啊
avatar
l*g
164 楼

经常坐坐就好了。

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】
: 有什么办法不睡？
avatar
l*g
165 楼

seeU，freeman，其他我觉得有的都没见到了，来了再说吧。
再说，你若自己实修而讨论，自然会有那样人出现。 ：）

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Which IDs are 有实修体验的, in your opinion? Can you list them or point me
: to some of their earlier posts? Thanks in advance!
avatar
w*r
166 楼
puppeteer 有， 从他的帖子看他自己说有进展。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: seeU，freeman，其他我觉得有的都没见到了，来了再说吧。
: 再说，你若自己实修而讨论，自然会有那样人出现。 ：）
avatar
l*g
167 楼

是。

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: puppeteer 有， 从他的帖子看他自己说有进展。
avatar
T*y
168 楼
I really don't know where I am, but I just want to know more.
Well, any way, SeeU and freeman08 are whom I have been talking with the most
, besides JeanIris.

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 是。
avatar
l*g
169 楼

most
你看似重思辨，不是在实修。
不过，我看不惯英文，所以没留意你们究竟在谈啥。
不过那两个人都比较忌讳谈自己的实修体验。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I really don't know where I am, but I just want to know more.
: Well, any way, SeeU and freeman08 are whom I have been talking with the most
: , besides JeanIris.
avatar
T*y
170 楼
I am not a Buddhist. I just like reading stuff and adjusting my own thoughts.
I'd really like to know more about "实修体验".

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: most
: 你看似重思辨，不是在实修。
: 不过，我看不惯英文，所以没留意你们究竟在谈啥。
: 不过那两个人都比较忌讳谈自己的实修体验。
avatar
l*g
171 楼

thoughts.
我非常想知道你为啥非要用英语呢？

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: I am not a Buddhist. I just like reading stuff and adjusting my own thoughts.
: I'd really like to know more about "实修体验".
avatar
T*y
176 楼
:-)

This is your judgement, and I hear it.
This is your preference, and it's your business.

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 噢。就是说你比较自私。
: 我看不惯英文，以后也就不费劲看了。谢谢回答。
avatar
R*o
177 楼
type english with me

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 噢。就是说你比较自私。
: 我看不惯英文，以后也就不费劲看了。谢谢回答。
avatar
l*g
178 楼

yes, sir.

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: type english with me
avatar
R*o
179 楼
where is your buddy waterer today

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: yes, sir.
avatar
l*g
180 楼

no clue.

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: where is your buddy waterer today
avatar
R*o
181 楼
do you think he is liumang?

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: no clue.
avatar
l*g
182 楼

no.he's a very nice guy.

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: do you think he is liumang?
avatar
R*o
183 楼
first time I hear people commenting waterer nicely

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: no.he's a very nice guy.
avatar
l*g
184 楼

he appears tough, but soft inside.

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: first time I hear people commenting waterer nicely
avatar
R*o
185 楼
mark mark

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: he appears tough, but soft inside.
avatar
l*g
186 楼

xiexie,xiexie.

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: mark mark
avatar
R*o
187 楼
keqi keqi

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: xiexie,xiexie.
avatar
l*g
188 楼

do me a favor, will you?
change your nickname, your image and remove the picture.

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: keqi keqi
avatar
R*o
189 楼
after you send me your pic :)

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: do me a favor, will you?
: change your nickname, your image and remove the picture.
avatar
l*g
190 楼

here you go:

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: after you send me your pic :)
avatar
R*o
191 楼
色既是空

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: here you go:
avatar
l*g
192 楼

君子成人之美。

【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: 色既是空
avatar
T*y
194 楼
good question! :-)

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 请问练慈心禅的时候，美眉会主动接近你吗？
: 好奇而已。
avatar
Y*u
195 楼
不矛盾， 冥想本身就不是想， 更不是乱想。

【在 t********n 的大作中提到】
: 干事的时候，能认真做事，不乱想就好
avatar
S*U
197 楼
I haven't tried it on girls. Hmmmm

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: good question! :-)
avatar
b*l
198 楼
这种动静打做两截的东西，也就小罗冰当会事
如果要靠修什么才有慈心，平时没见好，
那叫修分裂。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 你应该检查自己的文字障。
: 西，
: 因为我觉得Iris是在search状态，而SeeU心里有很深的执认，
: 谦恭的背后是一种对真实的完全漠视。
avatar
l*g
199 楼

同学，注意了，要正确领会精神。
我说那只是想让freeman明白，seeU未必没有实修。
当然freeman借那发挥到慈心啥的，完全在我意料之中。

【在 b*****l 的大作中提到】
: 这种动静打做两截的东西，也就小罗冰当会事
: 如果要靠修什么才有慈心，平时没见好，
: 那叫修分裂。
avatar
f*8
200 楼

同学，注意了，要正确领会精神。
我说那只是想让过路的xyz明白，
所谓的佛法真知，一定是通过实修“佛法”得到的。
要理解经典所说的无我概念，一定要多少在破除无明的方向修才能知道。
一个人没有修“真正的佛法”，才会妄批大乘经典、禅宗等等。
我说的“实修”特指“佛法不共法”的修行。
而不是指一般泛泛的任何打坐。
如果按你那样说，练气功都能改心性呢。应该也算实修了？
很多人把共法和不共法混淆起来，我也是慢慢才知道。
佛教本来只有一个，本无大乘小乘的对立。
现在的人们把佛教改成“人间”佛教，大乘小乘互相攻击，
就好象当年四人帮把科学改成“社会主义”科学，
以便和“资本主义”科学对立起来一样。
都是不懂科学的人才干的事情啊。
这些谤佛谤法的事情做起来冠冕堂皇，真的是出乎我的意料啊。
---------------------------------
再打个比方，
比如一个人妄自尊大，攻击大乘时就好象批判“测不准原理”，
说“怎么可能测不准！，我每次打酱油，说一斤，就是一斤，
从来不会缺斤少两，还被市里评为优秀工作者，人人说我有爱心，
每次别人来请教怎么打酱油又快有准确，我都耐心解释，
人人夸我好。
什么是科学？这就是科学，准得很。你要天天宣传高级科学，
测不准，那我们工作人员怎么做工作？还要不要打酱油？
那帮科学家，肯定是老糊涂了”。
我在旁边看不过去，就说，xyz这个人不学习，要学习才知道科学的事。
你就说，人家怎么不学习，每天都研究杠杆原理，天天起早贪黑，
练习各种跟打酱油有关的动作。怎们能说不学习。
我就无语了。
(然后我每次还要解释，我说他不学习，不是说反对人打酱油又快又准啊，
打酱油还是要一斤就是一斤的啊。）

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 同学，注意了，要正确领会精神。
: 我说那只是想让freeman明白，seeU未必没有实修。
: 当然freeman借那发挥到慈心啥的，完全在我意料之中。
avatar
l*g
201 楼

同学，注意了，要正确领会精神。
我举那例子，是因为seeU一般不谈实修体验，那个对他来讲也是玩。
你咋就会认为他只是打酱油的，没有学习呢？
你也基本不谈自己的实修，咋就总是自认自己就学习了科学了呢？
旁人又如何信服你呢？不信服，你还争个啥呢？

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 同学，注意了，要正确领会精神。
: 我说那只是想让过路的xyz明白，
: 所谓的佛法真知，一定是通过实修“佛法”得到的。
: 要理解经典所说的无我概念，一定要多少在破除无明的方向修才能知道。
: 一个人没有修“真正的佛法”，才会妄批大乘经典、禅宗等等。
: 我说的“实修”特指“佛法不共法”的修行。
: 而不是指一般泛泛的任何打坐。
: 如果按你那样说，练气功都能改心性呢。应该也算实修了？
: 很多人把共法和不共法混淆起来，我也是慢慢才知道。
avatar
f*8
202 楼

我没有争啊，只是别人先挑起（无端挑起）大小乘攻击，
又把佛法从根本上改成非佛法
（佛法本来就是修解脱道，才是佛法的不同于外道的根本、不共的特点，
佛法本来就是六道通用，才是叫做佛法，而不是人世间法）
我当然也可以说自己的看法。
不过我确实修念佛号有所得，其中确实依靠自力和外力同时进行，
本来也不是为了验证佛经，而是“为了解决自己的问题”，
但是解决了问题后，自然看懂佛经到底在说什么。
自然知道金刚经在说什么，坛经在说什么。
（不是全部，但普通人妄批金刚经、妄批禅宗的话，我还是能看懂）。
然后对唯识的理解也会有本质的不同。
所以我可以说，根据我的个人经验（当然可以加上历史上大德对金刚经的认同），
那些批判大乘，搞大小乘对立的人都是妄人妄语，不知道自己在说什么。
是喜欢不懂装懂的心在作怪。
---------------------------

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 同学，注意了，要正确领会精神。
: 我举那例子，是因为seeU一般不谈实修体验，那个对他来讲也是玩。
: 你咋就会认为他只是打酱油的，没有学习呢？
: 你也基本不谈自己的实修，咋就总是自认自己就学习了科学了呢？
: 旁人又如何信服你呢？不信服，你还争个啥呢？
avatar
f*8
203 楼
修慈心禅到底是什么效果，什么次第我就不懂了。
要打成一片，行住坐卧都是禅（大乘说法:)也不是一天两天的事情，不好评论。
84000法门，有些只是调节。我们不是高人，也没能力评论。
我只是反对robbin以此作为有实修，并进而认为这种实修就可以用来作为反驳经典的根
据，这样一种论证方法。

【在 b*****l 的大作中提到】
: 这种动静打做两截的东西，也就小罗冰当会事
: 如果要靠修什么才有慈心，平时没见好，
: 那叫修分裂。
avatar
f*8
204 楼

我这做法才是符合佛经关于手指和月亮的关系的教导的啊。
因为“月亮”就是“你自己的难题”，“你自己的问题”才是“月亮”，
而不是佛经。
天天拿着佛经钻研，就是在数手指。
手指本来是用来指出你的“心障”用的。
把自己的心障解决了，自然能看懂经典。
----------------------
我上篇讽刺可能有点过了。
不过相对于别人那种，笑眯眯地把非佛法说成是佛法，我应该还算好的吧。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 修慈心禅到底是什么效果，什么次第我就不懂了。
: 要打成一片，行住坐卧都是禅（大乘说法:)也不是一天两天的事情，不好评论。
: 84000法门，有些只是调节。我们不是高人，也没能力评论。
: 我只是反对robbin以此作为有实修，并进而认为这种实修就可以用来作为反驳经典的根
: 据，这样一种论证方法。
avatar
l*g
205 楼

你对人成见太深了。
你自念佛体验后，有没有再一次发现自己对经典有了新的理解？
若果没有，就不要太小看他人，因为你凭啥就会一步到位而能彻底理解祖师的教导呢？
再者，说话对人，你咋也像runsun一样想得是讲给xyz旁观者的呢？想象中的旁观者。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我这做法才是符合佛经关于手指和月亮的关系的教导的啊。
: 因为“月亮”就是“你自己的难题”，“你自己的问题”才是“月亮”，
: 而不是佛经。
: 天天拿着佛经钻研，就是在数手指。
: 手指本来是用来指出你的“心障”用的。
: 把自己的心障解决了，自然能看懂经典。
: ----------------------
: 我上篇讽刺可能有点过了。
: 不过相对于别人那种，笑眯眯地把非佛法说成是佛法，我应该还算好的吧。
avatar
l*g
206 楼

一叶知秋，小子，你太歪了。太小看别人了。
如果你认为别人不合理，很愚蠢的事，那很可能是你自己理解错了。我的经验。
比如，我根本就不是你表达的那样。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
: 修慈心禅到底是什么效果，什么次第我就不懂了。
: 要打成一片，行住坐卧都是禅（大乘说法:)也不是一天两天的事情，不好评论。
: 84000法门，有些只是调节。我们不是高人，也没能力评论。
: 我只是反对robbin以此作为有实修，并进而认为这种实修就可以用来作为反驳经典的根
: 据，这样一种论证方法。
avatar
l*g
207 楼

哈哈哈。。。。弱阿弱。
我看你才是打风车的高手。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我这做法才是符合佛经关于手指和月亮的关系的教导的啊。
: 因为“月亮”就是“你自己的难题”，“你自己的问题”才是“月亮”，
: 而不是佛经。
: 天天拿着佛经钻研，就是在数手指。
: 手指本来是用来指出你的“心障”用的。
: 把自己的心障解决了，自然能看懂经典。
: ----------------------
: 我上篇讽刺可能有点过了。
: 不过相对于别人那种，笑眯眯地把非佛法说成是佛法，我应该还算好的吧。
avatar
f*8
208 楼

的根
你原本是什么意思？

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 哈哈哈。。。。弱阿弱。
: 我看你才是打风车的高手。
avatar
l*g
209 楼

我的意思只是想告诉你，其实我们都不知道seeU的底细。
他基本不谈实修，但未必真没实修。
他那个小小把戏，只是个提示。他自己都没当啥。
当然他很看重学识和其他高人的认同。但，这只是一面。
人，修，有自己的境界，都是有道理的，都应容纳，不管高低，或是对错。
谈理可以，但预设自己是对的，就只是蒙蔽了自己的眼。对他人亦无益。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 的根
: 你原本是什么意思？
avatar
f*8
210 楼

那好，我的道理早也说过了，无非再重复一次。
1. 大乘经典，禅宗，是要实修过的人才能懂得。（我个人经验，外加...）
看不懂大乘经典（或看得朦胧）的人肯定是实修程度不够。 这合逻辑吧。
2. 不懂大乘经典，他可以说他有实修，他也打坐禅定，这都可以理解。
但是因为不懂，就妄批。这就可笑了，我说他们不懂是因为没实修。
当然就像前面那个故事一样，是指你没有修到“测不准原理”，
而不是认定他没有修1+1=2. 我说人不懂代数是因为他没学过，
难道任何人能回答说：我当然学过，3×7=21，难道不是么？
3. 这一篇你还是通过朦胧来混淆不同概念。一种是特定的，跟测不准有关的实修，
一种是泛泛的实修。你这个问题如果解决不了，估计麻烦。
我只是看不上那些自己不懂，还要装出大德的样子，来教导别人错误的东西做法。
然后还悄悄地加点私货，说别人是外道。呵呵。
--------------------
不过我的水平也有限，辩多了，ego也会越来越大。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 我的意思只是想告诉你，其实我们都不知道seeU的底细。
: 他基本不谈实修，但未必真没实修。
: 他那个小小把戏，只是个提示。他自己都没当啥。
: 当然他很看重学识和其他高人的认同。但，这只是一面。
: 人，修，有自己的境界，都是有道理的，都应容纳，不管高低，或是对错。
: 谈理可以，但预设自己是对的，就只是蒙蔽了自己的眼。对他人亦无益。
avatar
l*g
211 楼

他有乱批吗？你好好想想。
法门是佛教界公认外道。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 那好，我的道理早也说过了，无非再重复一次。
: 1. 大乘经典，禅宗，是要实修过的人才能懂得。（我个人经验，外加...）
: 看不懂大乘经典（或看得朦胧）的人肯定是实修程度不够。 这合逻辑吧。
: 2. 不懂大乘经典，他可以说他有实修，他也打坐禅定，这都可以理解。
: 但是因为不懂，就妄批。这就可笑了，我说他们不懂是因为没实修。
: 当然就像前面那个故事一样，是指你没有修到“测不准原理”，
: 而不是认定他没有修1+1=2. 我说人不懂代数是因为他没学过，
: 难道任何人能回答说：我当然学过，3×7=21，难道不是么？
: 3. 这一篇你还是通过朦胧来混淆不同概念。一种是特定的，跟测不准有关的实修，
avatar
f*8
212 楼

对不了解的事情，人云亦云是愚昧。
故意在人云亦云的基础上去宣扬，就是乱批。
况且，你又在转移问题！我这篇的重点是说他们乱批禅宗，金刚经等大乘经典。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 他有乱批吗？你好好想想。
: 法门是佛教界公认外道。
avatar
l*g
213 楼

如果你认为别人非常愚昧，或是不合情理，很可能是自己理解错了。我的经验。
你提到外道，我也就一提吧了。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 对不了解的事情，人云亦云是愚昧。
: 故意在人云亦云的基础上去宣扬，就是乱批。
: 况且，你又在转移问题！我这篇的重点是说他们乱批禅宗，金刚经等大乘经典。
avatar
f*8
214 楼

你这又是用抽象原则朦胧具体问题。我对你是没辙了。
如果这样抽象说都能到处用的话，你可以对佛这么说，可以对耶稣这么说。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 如果你认为别人非常愚昧，或是不合情理，很可能是自己理解错了。我的经验。
: 你提到外道，我也就一提吧了。
avatar
l*g
215 楼

如果你认为别人非常愚昧，或是不合情理，很可能是自己理解错了。我的经验。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 你这又是用抽象原则朦胧具体问题。我对你是没辙了。
: 如果这样抽象说都能到处用的话，你可以对佛这么说，可以对耶稣这么说。
avatar
l*g
216 楼

如果你认为别人非常愚昧，或是不合情理，很可能是自己理解错了。我的经验。
赶紧对自己说一遍。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 如果你认为别人非常愚昧，或是不合情理，很可能是自己理解错了。我的经验。
avatar
T*x
217 楼
我觉得freeman对人没有什么成见。你对人也没有什么成见。
不过我觉得你常犯糊涂，有点认人不清。
好像是为了高尚的教条而蒙蔽了心中真正的所喜所恶。俗称“迂腐”。
容易做“亲者痛仇者快”的事情。
WaiChi好像也说过你吧？有没有？
freeman其实也有一点这个毛病，但是你比他多一些。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 如果你认为别人非常愚昧，或是不合情理，很可能是自己理解错了。我的经验。
: 赶紧对自己说一遍。
avatar
l*g
218 楼

我对人成见大着呢。 ：）
真的？
非也。我当然喜欢freeman而非seeU的言行。一点没忽略。
我也知道freeman真有体悟，所言极是。so what。
“亲者痛仇者快”我不在乎，只要亲人能受益。
不过呢，我做事当然未必能达到自己所想。
就像我一直想让freeman知道一些东西，可就是没成。哎。
真的？我一点不记得了。具体啥事？
freeman这点我到没看出来。我干脆就没这毛病。 ：）

【在 T*******x 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得freeman对人没有什么成见。你对人也没有什么成见。
: 不过我觉得你常犯糊涂，有点认人不清。
: 好像是为了高尚的教条而蒙蔽了心中真正的所喜所恶。俗称“迂腐”。
: 容易做“亲者痛仇者快”的事情。
: WaiChi好像也说过你吧？有没有？
: freeman其实也有一点这个毛病，但是你比他多一些。
avatar
b*d
219 楼
你怎么老想让别人知道点东西？是因为你觉得知道得比他正确还是知道得比他多？你怎
么知道他需要知道那些东西？

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 我对人成见大着呢。 ：）
: 真的？
: 非也。我当然喜欢freeman而非seeU的言行。一点没忽略。
: 我也知道freeman真有体悟，所言极是。so what。
: “亲者痛仇者快”我不在乎，只要亲人能受益。
: 不过呢，我做事当然未必能达到自己所想。
: 就像我一直想让freeman知道一些东西，可就是没成。哎。
: 真的？我一点不记得了。具体啥事？
: freeman这点我到没看出来。我干脆就没这毛病。 ：）
avatar
l*g
220 楼

我看见啥了，就说出来了，看看有没帮助。不过，你问的也挺好。

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】
: 你怎么老想让别人知道点东西？是因为你觉得知道得比他正确还是知道得比他多？你怎
: 么知道他需要知道那些东西？
avatar
f*8
221 楼

我分享一点个人背景知识：
荣格也是我以前很喜欢的一个人，出国前，有两个心理学家对我影响很深的，
一个是荣格，当年有一本荣格文集，看得很熟。还有个霍尔内，写过一本
《神经症与人的成长》，也很出名。
当时我集中看这两个人的书，记得连续7天，每天都做一个梦，每个梦都
显示一个场景，反应小时候的一些事件引发的心理挫折，而且顺序就像
剥洋葱一样，先梦见最近发生的，然后更前推一点。
我觉得那是预示着我正是开始“正视”自己的内心世界，而不是继续回避。
因为之前很多年，我都是无梦的。或许压抑的很深吧。
这也符合弗洛伊德、荣格关于梦的作用的理论。
后来出国后遇到一些高手，才渐渐地相信，天下没有新鲜事，这些事实，
以及更深层、更彻底的理论和技术，在佛法里都是成熟的了。
人们不一定需要通过做梦这样一种不能完全自控的方式来了解自己，
完全有真实、清醒、系统的方法来彻底了解自我。
-----------------------------------------------------
另外，提到梦的问题，我又不由想起一个传奇人物“莲生活佛”，
他就说他有能力进入别人梦中。这比荣格的祈梦大概要高了很多了。
我在录像中看到，一次他对着弟子讲经时，笑眯眯地说：
我就有这个能力，哈哈，我今天拍拍你的脑袋说，
晚上梦里见。我就能进到你梦里。
世界上奇事很多，我提到他，不是说我承认（或否认）他教的就是解脱法，
只是觉得很有意思。
it'

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Could you explain more about "一切唯心造，万法唯识"?
: Meditation is indeed too broad a topic, even within Buddhist practice, there
: are lots of variations. That's what Ven. Henepola Gunaratana mentioned in
: his book "Mindfulness In Plain English", which I gave a link above. His
: approach is also just one of them.
: Those channeling examples are prevalent in many places and throughout the
: history, and those people are more motivated to meditate. I am a talker
: about it now though, as I don't meditate often.
: Being able to talk to such spirits or intuitions or whatever people tend to
: interpret them, and practicing meditation, have helped shaping human kind's
avatar
T*y
222 楼
Thanks a lot for sharing! I have enjoyed knowing more of your personal
experiences.
As to Carl Jung, his work is more in the realm of science: there are
systematic training procedures for the therapists based on his theory, and
there are many scholars studying his work. What I understand is only from
reading a couple of books on his biography or others' comments on him. Carl
Jung also thought highly of DaoDeJing: he drew his inspirations from it, and
connected the dots between the wisdom from East and West.
I used to record my dreams for a couple of weeks after I read his book,
whenever I woke up. I noticed some patterns; namely, they are a mixture of
my daily life and my emotions. I could indeed understand myself better. When
I stopped recording my dreams the first thing after I woke up though, I
didn't remember my dreams any more. Dreams are easy to forget.
I then googled 莲生活佛, and I saw very mixed comments on him. If some of
the accusations were true, then he seemed very manipulative or even sexually
abusive towards his patients or students, using their fears and admiration.
I am not sure whether you know that. Have you met him?
With all that said, I do not know which theory or guidance is the ultimate
one yet, because I am not where they point to yet. It's fun to explore for
now.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我分享一点个人背景知识：
: 荣格也是我以前很喜欢的一个人，出国前，有两个心理学家对我影响很深的，
: 一个是荣格，当年有一本荣格文集，看得很熟。还有个霍尔内，写过一本
: 《神经症与人的成长》，也很出名。
: 当时我集中看这两个人的书，记得连续7天，每天都做一个梦，每个梦都
: 显示一个场景，反应小时候的一些事件引发的心理挫折，而且顺序就像
: 剥洋葱一样，先梦见最近发生的，然后更前推一点。
: 我觉得那是预示着我正是开始“正视”自己的内心世界，而不是继续回避。
: 因为之前很多年，我都是无梦的。或许压抑的很深吧。
avatar
l*g
223 楼

说起梦，我是老做的，很好玩。
我觉得最能夸大自己隐藏的想法是这样，早上醒来，然后又睡去而作的梦，很多时候把
自己没留意的小事小想法弯曲放大。我每次都被吓一跳，原来一个小小念头，可以演的
这末大阿。
神游中讲了完整的梦修习方法。入梦是一个阶段。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】
:
: 我分享一点个人背景知识：
: 荣格也是我以前很喜欢的一个人，出国前，有两个心理学家对我影响很深的，
: 一个是荣格，当年有一本荣格文集，看得很熟。还有个霍尔内，写过一本
: 《神经症与人的成长》，也很出名。
: 当时我集中看这两个人的书，记得连续7天，每天都做一个梦，每个梦都
: 显示一个场景，反应小时候的一些事件引发的心理挫折，而且顺序就像
: 剥洋葱一样，先梦见最近发生的，然后更前推一点。
: 我觉得那是预示着我正是开始“正视”自己的内心世界，而不是继续回避。
: 因为之前很多年，我都是无梦的。或许压抑的很深吧。
avatar
T*y
224 楼
Also, I am not saying that 莲生活佛 does not have any special ability. It's
just that when his morality is questionable, his words are perhaps also
questionable. Perhaps he has some special abilities, and I want to know more
of those as well.
Carl Jung is not a saint, either. He had multiple affairs throughout his
life with his patients, in so-called "transference" phenomenon, often
happening in therapy, although he had been with his wife, mostly happily,
till the end. As introspective as he was, he acknowledged his
characteristics, but he did it anyway. He did draw inspirations from all of
his patients to discover more of subconscious though. He treated each case
as a new case to learn together with the patient.

experiences.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks a lot for sharing! I have enjoyed knowing more of your personal
: experiences.
: As to Carl Jung, his work is more in the realm of science: there are
: systematic training procedures for the therapists based on his theory, and
: there are many scholars studying his work. What I understand is only from
: reading a couple of books on his biography or others' comments on him. Carl
: Jung also thought highly of DaoDeJing: he drew his inspirations from it, and
: connected the dots between the wisdom from East and West.
: I used to record my dreams for a couple of weeks after I read his book,
: whenever I woke up. I noticed some patterns; namely, they are a mixture of
avatar
T*y
225 楼
"神游中讲了完整的梦修习方法。入梦是一个阶段。"
I googled a bit just now, but I didn't seem to find a good excerpt on that.
Can you find one for me? Thank you!

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: 说起梦，我是老做的，很好玩。
: 我觉得最能夸大自己隐藏的想法是这样，早上醒来，然后又睡去而作的梦，很多时候把
: 自己没留意的小事小想法弯曲放大。我每次都被吓一跳，原来一个小小念头，可以演的
: 这末大阿。
: 神游中讲了完整的梦修习方法。入梦是一个阶段。
avatar
S*U
226 楼
莲生活佛 has been declared 'fake' Buddhist by more than one Buddhist masters
. See Wikipedia entry for 'Fu Fo Wai Dao' He doesn't represent the Buddhist
tradition in any way.

Carl
and

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Thanks a lot for sharing! I have enjoyed knowing more of your personal
: experiences.
: As to Carl Jung, his work is more in the realm of science: there are
: systematic training procedures for the therapists based on his theory, and
: there are many scholars studying his work. What I understand is only from
: reading a couple of books on his biography or others' comments on him. Carl
: Jung also thought highly of DaoDeJing: he drew his inspirations from it, and
: connected the dots between the wisdom from East and West.
: I used to record my dreams for a couple of weeks after I read his book,
: whenever I woke up. I noticed some patterns; namely, they are a mixture of
avatar
l*g
227 楼

.
your this dream will not be fullfilled by me unless you start type in
Chinese. :)

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: "神游中讲了完整的梦修习方法。入梦是一个阶段。"
: I googled a bit just now, but I didn't seem to find a good excerpt on that.
: Can you find one for me? Thank you!
avatar
f*8
228 楼
其实我不关心莲生活佛到底是什么，以及他有什么过错等等，真的不关心。
去他网站看他的录像只是因为本版当时有人提到，我好奇去看看。
然后正好就看到那一段他讲梦的事情。整个场景都很好笑，但是一点也不沉闷。
至于后来网上传的他真假佛法的事情，我真的不关心，
所以，对我来说，只是知道有他这个人，以及一些很有意思的现象。
这个兴趣就好象有人说特异功能表演，我就去看看，
但是我又看不出名堂，也没准备深究，就只当成是一个现象吧。就是到此而已。
但是我从来没去过他们的会所。
至于荣格，佛洛伊德，我觉得有什么事情都是正常。
因为ego的问题并没有解决。印象中，好像佛洛伊德两次昏倒都跟荣格有关。
实际上心理学就没有解决ego的问题。
所以到马斯洛讲“自我实现”，就是一个很迷惑的东西。
因为如果不清楚“什么叫自我”，谈什么“自我实现”?

s
more
of

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Also, I am not saying that 莲生活佛 does not have any special ability. It's
: just that when his morality is questionable, his words are perhaps also
: questionable. Perhaps he has some special abilities, and I want to know more
: of those as well.
: Carl Jung is not a saint, either. He had multiple affairs throughout his
: life with his patients, in so-called "transference" phenomenon, often
: happening in therapy, although he had been with his wife, mostly happily,
: till the end. As introspective as he was, he acknowledged his
: characteristics, but he did it anyway. He did draw inspirations from all of
: his patients to discover more of subconscious though. He treated each case
avatar
J*s
229 楼
Morality is related to meditation in Buddhism.
Being mindful should also be applied to the well establishment of morality (
five precepts).

s
more
of

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: Also, I am not saying that 莲生活佛 does not have any special ability. It's
: just that when his morality is questionable, his words are perhaps also
: questionable. Perhaps he has some special abilities, and I want to know more
: of those as well.
: Carl Jung is not a saint, either. He had multiple affairs throughout his
: life with his patients, in so-called "transference" phenomenon, often
: happening in therapy, although he had been with his wife, mostly happily,
: till the end. As introspective as he was, he acknowledged his
: characteristics, but he did it anyway. He did draw inspirations from all of
: his patients to discover more of subconscious though. He treated each case
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