俺来问问那个新的DP5 mechanism吧 - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

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俺来问问那个新的DP5 mechanism吧

俺来问问那个新的DP5 mechanism吧# Biology - 生物学

k*i2010-10-22 07:10

1 楼

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S*p2010-10-22 07:10

2 楼

还是黄瓜...

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

3 楼

就是刚刚出来那个NIH director's early independence award
其实看起来mechanism和现有的fellows program也差不多：招10个新毕业的PhD，给
250K一年，学校提供lab space等等让他们跳过postdoc阶段
但是不一样的是，首先这些人基本上都只能出自本校了吧，因为给的deadline太近
压根没打算留出让大家自由申请的时间，而且看现在开始搞得几个学校（像Stanf
ord duke）也都是以内部推荐为主的。另外就是，拿了这个钱的以后就不算NIH ne
w investigator了。
这样看好坏就挺难衡量的了。。好处是钱真多（比大部分fellow program都多很多
）有NIH的推广以后也许知名度会比较好（存疑把）而且早点熟悉NIH funding me
chanism也没什么不好；坏处是失去了new investigator status（牛人说说这个关
系大么？）只能留在原来学校失去了换环境多认识人甚至是换脑子的机会。
其实NIH还是噱头为主了全国才10个名额从宣布到提交letter of intent才2个月
，一看就是没打算认真搞得样子。。呵呵不过想多了解点这个东东的利弊牛人们
现身给点经验建议把:) 我也来物质刺激发包子奖励。。。

T*42010-10-22 07:10

4 楼

从字的样子，看得出老九很无奈

【在 S*p 的大作中提到】

: 还是黄瓜...

h*o2010-10-22 07:10

5 楼

这个申请是要学校提交的，你可以和学校谈，所有的条件都是基于“如果你拿到这笔钱
”。所以换个学校是可能的，不过人家能看得到的也就是你的文章和你老板的推荐。我
觉得除非你做的东西很烫手，学校真是宁愿招博后
我觉得应该少给点钱，但是多给几个人。十个真是太少了

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 就是刚刚出来那个NIH director's early independence award
: 其实看起来mechanism和现有的fellows program也差不多：招10个新毕业的PhD，给
: 250K一年，学校提供lab space等等让他们跳过postdoc阶段
: 但是不一样的是，首先这些人基本上都只能出自本校了吧，因为给的deadline太近
: 压根没打算留出让大家自由申请的时间，而且看现在开始搞得几个学校（像Stanf
: ord duke）也都是以内部推荐为主的。另外就是，拿了这个钱的以后就不算NIH ne
: w investigator了。
: 这样看好坏就挺难衡量的了。。好处是钱真多（比大部分fellow program都多很多
: ）有NIH的推广以后也许知名度会比较好（存疑把）而且早点熟悉NIH funding me
: chanism也没什么不好；坏处是失去了new investigator status（牛人说说这个关

i*e2010-10-22 07:10

6 楼

我只好说：太远！

y*82010-10-22 07:10

7 楼

如果想申请，和你们系的Chairman好好谈谈，看能不能给你一个
independent fellow的title？从理论上不需要给你什么实质的东西。

n*72010-10-22 07:10

8 楼

真好

y*82010-10-22 07:10

9 楼

你所在的学校应该是很有优势的，而且内部竞争不大。

T*m2010-10-22 07:10

10 楼

你这不是PK那yet2008的“太少”吗？

【在 S*p 的大作中提到】

: 还是黄瓜...

f*72010-10-22 07:10

11 楼

losing new investigator status is a big disadvantage

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

g*12010-10-22 07:10

12 楼

This program is very similar to the Fellow program by a few elite
schools. The difference is that NIH provides money vs. school itself.
The money is essentially same as an R01. It's not as much as you think
when you support 1 graduate student and couple of postdocs as well as
some parts of own salary.
Regarding to "给的deadline太近压根没打算留出让大家自由申请的时间", this is
not
for the everyday graduate students. It's really for those elite
graduate students who have published 2 or 3 first author CNS papers and
already well known in the circles of big cows. The application and
interviewing process is not what you normally know. Often times, it's
the universities who are courting these elite candidates, not candidates
sending CV to apply and beg for interview. I have known a few over last
few years who got fellow or AP position (reserved). So, unless you
think you belong to this elite level and good enough for Fellow in
Whitehead, Stanford, Berkeley, you have very little chance to get this
DP5.
As for losing new investigator status, this makes sense. This is pretty
much an R01. NIH can only grant you such status once.
BTW, what is 包子? why do people care about it?

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

13 楼

谢谢这个应该是必须的

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】

: 如果想申请，和你们系的Chairman好好谈谈，看能不能给你一个
: independent fellow的title？从理论上不需要给你什么实质的东西。

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

14 楼

how big?换句话说就是 new investigator状态比其他人的话拿R01的比例能差多少呢
？我没啥数量概念地说

【在 f*******7 的大作中提到】

: losing new investigator status is a big disadvantage

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

15 楼

谢谢了～这个东西肯定是很难的我也就是随便问问呵呵
我对他们这个deadline最大的不满倒不是说elite不elite了而是基本只能让本校的学生
申请了就否则一个A校的毕业生想申请到B校去做independent researcher从程序上就很
难来得及。看起来其实各个学校这次也都是这么做的（internal selection）而这么近
亲繁殖到也未必是好事了
hoho 包子没什么用 mitbbs的筒子们自娱自乐挺合适。。
楼上诸位每人10个包子哈

【在 g****1 的大作中提到】

:
: This program is very similar to the Fellow program by a few elite
: schools. The difference is that NIH provides money vs. school itself.
: The money is essentially same as an R01. It's not as much as you think
: when you support 1 graduate student and couple of postdocs as well as
: some parts of own salary.
: Regarding to "给的deadline太近压根没打算留出让大家自由申请的时间", this is
: not
: for the everyday graduate students. It's really for those elite
: graduate students who have published 2 or 3 first author CNS papers and

y*82010-10-22 07:10

16 楼

new investigator并没有那么大作用。现在NIH强调年轻PI必须有一定的比例，就像藤
校照顾少数族裔一样。如果你觉得经过几年后还需要照顾才能拿R01，恐怕不是什么好
心理.

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: how big?换句话说就是 new investigator状态比其他人的话拿R01的比例能差多少呢
: ？我没啥数量概念地说

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

17 楼

谢谢请查收包子 hoho 我也同意已经拿了5年R01 equivalent 还要new investigator
status有点多余呵呵（不过如果哪位有数据对比就更好了呵呵）

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】

: new investigator并没有那么大作用。现在NIH强调年轻PI必须有一定的比例，就像藤
: 校照顾少数族裔一样。如果你觉得经过几年后还需要照顾才能拿R01，恐怕不是什么好
: 心理.

y*82010-10-22 07:10

18 楼

其实NIH的每个DP项目都备受诟病，而且politics很重。
不过只要你能找到你们系中两个以上的老头力挺，就因该十拿九稳了。

：，一看就是没打算认真搞得样子。。呵呵不过想多了解点这个东东的利弊牛人们
现身给点经验建议把:) 我也来物质刺激发包子奖励。。。

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 谢谢请查收包子 hoho 我也同意已经拿了5年R01 equivalent 还要new investigator
: status有点多余呵呵（不过如果哪位有数据对比就更好了呵呵）

y*82010-10-22 07:10

19 楼

NCI ($5.1B): FY10 payline at 15th percentile for Type 1/2 R01s, 20th for new
investigator R01s; 15th for R21s; impact score up to 30 for R03s; impact
score up to 29 for R15s
NCI cleared concepts
NCI program contacts
NIAID ($4.8B): Interim FY11 payline at 8th percentile for established and
12th percentile for new/ESI investigators; FY10 payline for R01 at 11th
percentile and at 16th for new investigators; R03 at impact score 31, R15 at
22, R21 at 31, F31 at 28, F32 at 28, K other than K99 at 26, T32 at 28, R41
/42 (STTR) at 33, R43/R44 (SBIR) at 31
NIAID cleared concepts
NIAID program contacts
NIAID Paylines (historic data by year and mechanism)
NHLBI ($3.1B): FY10 payline for established PI R01/U01 at 16th percentile
for A0, 12th percentile for A1 (first amended resubmission), 10th percentile
for A2; ESI at 5 percentile points above R01 payline; for R03/R21 at 16th
percentile; R15 at impact score 30; P01 at 26; and P01 subproject at 35; K
awards at 40; T awards at 40; F31/F32 at 20th percentile, F30 at impact
score 25; SBIR at 30; STTR at 15
Rebalancing FY10 Success Rate (>60% A0 applications funded)
NHLBI cleared concepts (click on most recent Council minutes, see proposed
initiatives)
NHLBI program contacts
FY10 Policy Changes: “The special payline policy for non-ESI [new
investigators] will be phased out in FY 2010. In addition, ESI applications
on which all named principal investigators are ESI investigators that are >5
but <=10 percentile points above the regular R01 payline may undergo an
expedited review to resolve comments in the summary statement."
NIGMS ($2.05B): FY10 policy but no payline data available
NIGMS cleared concepts (click on most recent Council minutes)
NIGMS program contacts
NIDDK ($1.98B): FY10 payline of 17th percentile for R01s (Type 1 or 2) from
established investigators, 19th percentile from new/ESI investigators (
please take note of the NIDDK-specific guidance for planning/developing R21
applications), impact score of 30 for R03s
NIDDK cleared concepts
NIDDK program contacts
NINDS ($1.6B): FY10 payline at 13th percentile for R01s; up to 16th
percentile for A0 R01s; unspecified higher percentiles for new investigator
& up to 23rd percentile for High Program Priority applications; estimated 22
% success rate for all competing research project grants
NINDS cleared concepts (click on most recent Council minutes)
NINDS program contacts
NIMH ($1.5B): FY10 payline up to 20th percentile, program discretion (see
main link for details on research funding priorities; focus on ESI (versus
new) applicants; training funding priorities here)
NIMH cleared concepts
NIMH program contacts
NICHD ($1.3B): No payline data provided
NICHD cleared concepts
NICHD program contacts
NCRR ($1.27B): FY10 funding policy but no paylines
NCRR cleared concepts (click on presentations or minutes of most recent
meeting)
NCRR program contacts
NIA ($1.1B): FY10 payline for R01s at 8th percentile; FY11 update: NIA
program division staff will apply stricter scrutiny than previously to
requests for permission to submit applications seeking awards with direct
costs of $500,000 or more in any one year. In addition, for FY 2011, NIA
will limit the share of competing RPG funds going to large grants to no more
than the share of the competing RPG budget awarded to large grants in FY
2010.
NIA program contacts and priorities (click through most relevant branch)
NIDA ($1.06B): FY10 policy but no paylines
NIDA program contacts (click on relevant Division)
FY10 Budget Request
NIEHS ($690M): no payline data available
NIEHS cleared concepts (click on latest Council minutes)
NIEHS program contacts (click on relevant area in org chart)
NEI ($707M): no payline data available, though they will “be cautious in
making competitive awards” (policy info here)
NEI cleared concepts (click on latest Council minutes)
NEI program contacts
NIAMS ($539M): FY10 paylines at 15th percentile for R01s, 20th percentile
for new investigators, 15th percentile for R21s, 34 for R03s, 30 for R15s,
30 for K01/K02/K08/K25s, 25 for K23/K24s, 14 for K99s, 30 for F31/F32/F33s,
25 for T32s, 27 for SBIR, 32 for STTR
NIAMS cleared concepts (click on latest Council minutes)
NIAMS program contacts (click on relevant scientific area)
FY10 Budget Request
NHGRI ($516M): FY10 policy but no paylines
NHGRI cleared concepts (click on most recent meeting agenda & documents)
NHGRI program contacts (click on relevant program)
NIAAA ($462M): FY10 policy but no paylines
NIAAA cleared concepts (click on most recent Council minutes)
NIDCD ($419M): FY10 policy – payline at the 22nd percentile for R01s per
Council minutes
NIDCD cleared concepts
NIDCD program contacts
NIDCR ($413M): FY10 policy but no paylines
NIDCR cleared concepts
NIDCR program contacts
NLM ($359): FY10: For experienced investigators, applications with scores 30
or better are the most likely to be funded. ESI & NI seeking their first
R01 research grant and K99 applicants with scores of 45 or better will be
considered for funding.
NLM cleared concepts
NLM program contacts
NIBIB ($316M): FY10 payline at 13th/18th percentile for established/new
investigator R01s (limited to 4 years except for BRP, 10% administrative cut
except BRP); 13th percentile for R21s; impact score at 23 for R03s &amp
R15s; up to 5 K99/R00 awards to be made; estimated impact score of 25 for
SBIRs; highly competitive paylines for Fs & Ks; anticipate 3-4 Type 1/Type 2
BRP & P01 awards, 1-2 Type 1/Type 2 P41 awards
NIBIB cleared concepts (click on most recent minutes)
NIBIB program contacts
NCMHD ($212M): no payline data available (traditionally no funding policy is
posted for this Center)
NINR ($146M): “Council and program staff may selectively recommend the
payment of grants out of priority score order based on Institute mission and
priorities and to maintain a diverse and balanced portfolio” (estimated
success rate of 18%, but no payline/priority score guidance provided)
NINR program contacts
NCCAM ($129M): FY10 payline at impact score of 29 or better and fall within
20th percentile for established PI R01s; impact score of 35 or better and
fall within 25th percentile for new/ESI applicant R01s; impact score of 24
or better for R21s
NCCAM cleared concepts
FIC ($73M): no payline data available (FY10 success rate est at 10-15%)

investigator

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 谢谢请查收包子 hoho 我也同意已经拿了5年R01 equivalent 还要new investigator
: status有点多余呵呵（不过如果哪位有数据对比就更好了呵呵）

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

20 楼

谢谢！感觉几个提到new investigator的所percentile相差都是5%前后不能忽略可也
不是那么惊人:)

new
at
R41

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】

: NCI ($5.1B): FY10 payline at 15th percentile for Type 1/2 R01s, 20th for new
: investigator R01s; 15th for R21s; impact score up to 30 for R03s; impact
: score up to 29 for R15s
: NCI cleared concepts
: NCI program contacts
: NIAID ($4.8B): Interim FY11 payline at 8th percentile for established and
: 12th percentile for new/ESI investigators; FY10 payline for R01 at 11th
: percentile and at 16th for new investigators; R03 at impact score 31, R15 at
: 22, R21 at 31, F31 at 28, F32 at 28, K other than K99 at 26, T32 at 28, R41
: /42 (STTR) at 33, R43/R44 (SBIR) at 31

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

21 楼

再发10个包子吧 hoho

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 谢谢！感觉几个提到new investigator的所percentile相差都是5%前后不能忽略可也
: 不是那么惊人:)
:
: new
: at
: R41

f*72010-10-22 07:10

22 楼

not just the payline... New investigator R01 applications are
clustered for discussion in study sections. So a preliminary score of
4 from a new investigator could get discussion while the same score
from an established investigator might get triaged.

for new
impact
established and
11th
31, R15 at
28, R41

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】

f*72010-10-22 07:10

23 楼

5% is a huge difference when the normal payline is only ~10%

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 谢谢！感觉几个提到new investigator的所percentile相差都是5%前后不能忽略可也
: 不是那么惊人:)
:
: new
: at
: R41

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

24 楼

能具体说说么？不管怎么被讨论最终得到的结果不就是fund还是不fund么？

【在 f*******7 的大作中提到】

: not just the payline... New investigator R01 applications are
: clustered for discussion in study sections. So a preliminary score of
: 4 from a new investigator could get discussion while the same score
: from an established investigator might get triaged.
:
: for new
: impact
: established and
: 11th
: 31, R15 at

b*d2010-10-22 07:10

25 楼

Each R01 grant got preliminary scores from 3 reviewers before the study
session. During study session, they lump new investigator's grant
together and triage ~50% based on preliminary scores and only discuss the
rest and score them by everybody. They do the same for all the other
grants. So if you are not new investigator, you will be in the other
pool competing against more established PIs. There are some other details
and variances depending on each study session. I don't want to bore
everybody here.

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 能具体说说么？不管怎么被讨论最终得到的结果不就是fund还是不fund么？

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

26 楼

这个我知道啊哈我的意思是说最后new investigator的payline 比如说20% 是对全
applicant pool来说的20% 还是只要在new investigator里面20%就行呢？如果是后者
区别就大了如果是前者的好像没那么大去别吧

b*d2010-10-22 07:10

27 楼

percentile calculation is among all applicant pool. 5% handicap is
substantial :)

【在 p*****m 的大作中提到】

: 这个我知道啊哈我的意思是说最后new investigator的payline 比如说20% 是对全
: applicant pool来说的20% 还是只要在new investigator里面20%就行呢？如果是后者
: 区别就大了如果是前者的好像没那么大去别吧

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

28 楼

包子奉上；）

【在 b******d 的大作中提到】

:
: percentile calculation is among all applicant pool. 5% handicap is
: substantial :)

p*m2010-10-22 07:10

29 楼

包子奉上；）

【在 b******d 的大作中提到】

:
: percentile calculation is among all applicant pool. 5% handicap is
: substantial :)