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大家应该集体抵制苦逼型PI
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u*a
2 楼
还是要另买.
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T*i
3 楼
（大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
"Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
persistence."
“scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
hrs per week."
"... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
or so it seemed, lying under an apple tree, don't we. "
以上摘录见 Work ethic: The 24/7 lab，Nature 477, 20-22 (2011）的回帖。
道理谁都明白。即使苦逼型PI也会冠冕堂皇地说passion。但实际工作中又是另外一回
事了。
苦逼型PI的问题是，拿workaholic 当passion。而workaholic的原因是没有情趣。并不
是真正喜欢科研，而是没什么其他事情好做，又对成功有着burning desire。我知道的
苦逼型PI基本都是nerd 中的nerd，而且很多都是各国的凤凰男女。前者（nerdy），让
他们兴趣狭窄，后者（凤凰），让他们有必须成功的压力。但没有真正passion的
workaholic是让周围的人痛苦的，因为兴趣狭窄的人往往脑子不活，workaholic的人往
往没有时间进行高质量的思考，所以很难想象creativity 和 orinality 和他们有什么
关系。
抱怨苦逼型PI的人很多。这就是抱怨的人的不是了。你抱怨也改变不了苦逼型人才苦逼
的心理需要。如果你不是苦逼型人才，你能做到的就是抵制他们，避免去为他们工作。
顺便说点相关的题外话。有不少人认为自己不快乐是因为不成功（或挣钱少，whatever
），所以需要牺牲眼前的simple pleasure，去追求那在云端的成功。我不知道这样丧
失的快乐，是不是成功带来的快感可以弥补的。象Work ethic: The 24/7 lab一文中采
访的Alfredo Quiñones-Hinojosa，在追求成功的过程中，根本没有时间和孩子相
处。作为一个父亲，还有什么比和自己的孩子相处更重要的呢。快乐不是金钱，不是可
以存起来，留着以后用的东西。
avatar
l*n
5 楼
一般都至少带starter吧

【在 u******a 的大作中提到】
: 还是要另买.
avatar
k*0
6 楼
就看你有没有选择的余地了。有人不幸撞上了苦逼的PI，马上跳船走人；有人别无他路
，只好沦为苦逼PI的苦逼学生薄厚。
无论PI或学生，都是牛逼不苦逼，苦逼不牛逼。
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i*a
7 楼
the product descriptions are funny too
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k*0
8 楼
你提到的文章，描述了很多我的心里话。我好好学习一下。谢谢。
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b*n
9 楼
问题是苦逼型PI的存在影响到了其他正常人的生存

of
applies
or
,

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: （大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
: "Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
: persistence."
: “scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
: the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
: hrs per week."
: "... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
: to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
: quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
: even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
avatar
o*u
10 楼
Twenty years ago, Dr. Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa hopped a border fence from
Mexico into the United States and became a migrant farm worker, living in
the fields in a broken-down camper he bought for $300. When told he would
probably be a farm worker for the rest of his life, he signed up for English
classes at a community college, where one of his teachers encouraged him to
apply to UC-Berkeley. There, he developed a passion for science, and showed
remarkable aptitude. He went on to Harvard Medical School and graduated
with honors, followed by a residency in neurosurgery at UC-San Francisco,
where he completed a postdoctoral fellowship in developmental and stem cell
biology.
hopped fence 来农场干活的，确实牛比。

of
applies
or
,

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: （大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
: "Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
: persistence."
: “scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
: the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
: hrs per week."
: "... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
: to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
: quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
: even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
avatar
L*s
11 楼
要分人..
avatar
b*s
12 楼
同意你说的大部分，就是没看见你教大家如何抵制。

of
applies
or
,

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: （大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
: "Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
: persistence."
: “scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
: the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
: hrs per week."
: "... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
: to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
: quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
: even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
avatar
I*y
13 楼
you are asking for something that Tianzi may not intend to do in his post.
This is a groundless criticism.

【在 b******s 的大作中提到】
: 同意你说的大部分，就是没看见你教大家如何抵制。
:
: of
: applies
: or
: ,
avatar
b*s
14 楼
我这是鼓励，不是批评。对于爱思考的同学，我都是欣赏的。

【在 I*****y 的大作中提到】
: you are asking for something that Tianzi may not intend to do in his post.
: This is a groundless criticism.
avatar
s*4
15 楼
提倡选组的时候，直截了当请师兄师姐给个“苦逼型PI” 黑名单。。。哈哈～

of
applies
or
,

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: （大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
: "Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
: persistence."
: “scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
: the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
: hrs per week."
: "... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
: to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
: quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
: even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
avatar
l*1
16 楼
s/he at least sub water for three month from now after your this suggestion.

【在 s******4 的大作中提到】
: 提倡选组的时候，直截了当请师兄师姐给个“苦逼型PI” 黑名单。。。哈哈～
:
: of
: applies
: or
: ,
avatar
T*i
17 楼
如果不是苦逼型人才就别去苦逼型实验室呗。至于怎么识别苦逼型实验室，有多种办法
，以前已经有很多人讨论过了。再不济，面试的时候总能看出端倪。首先看老板聪明不
聪明，思维是否活跃，或者是否谈及兴趣爱好，周围有什么好玩的好饭店这些。这样的
老板，再push 也是在正常人范围内的。其次问实验室其他人，如果大家都支支吾吾，
那最好离的远点。
其实很多时候即使感觉到未来的老板会很苦逼，也因为可能的利益（文章，老板名气等
等）的诱惑而生出“我先苦逼几年，成功了也就值了”的想法。这还是中国传统农业文
明文化中的 “吃得苦中苦，方为人上人”的流毒。根本看不出来passion，只有对成功
所带来利益的渴望。我对这种文化不做好坏评判，只是觉得有这种吃苦能力的人，为什
么不改行做更容易挣钱的行业？多留一点空间给象我这种真正喜欢研究但又不喜欢苦逼
的人不是两全其美？
如何判定一个人真正喜欢科研而不是成功后可能带来的利益？很简单，如果一个人（象
我老人家），有多种兴趣爱好，思维活跃，很容易交朋友，但仍然经常在周末或晚上去
实验室工作，这就是真正喜欢的。相反，一个人除了工作没有任何拿的出手的兴趣爱好
（基于人的动物本能的不算），不喜欢运动，语言乏味，这种人十有八九不是真正喜欢
科研，他们只是不知道除了工作之外还有什么可以做的，何况还有巨大的压力悬在那里
。这种人在现在的PI里有很多，挤压了真正喜欢研究但缺乏苦逼能力的人的生存空间。

【在 b******s 的大作中提到】
: 同意你说的大部分，就是没看见你教大家如何抵制。
:
: of
: applies
: or
: ,
avatar
j*k
18 楼
记得每年新生来我都告诉他们别选苦逼老板，很多有为青年不以为然的奔着paper
machine lab去，青春最好的几年跟着苦逼了。自作孽不可活啊。

★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3.1

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: （大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
: "Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
: persistence."
: “scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
: the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
: hrs per week."
: "... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
: to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
: quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
: even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
avatar
T*i
19 楼
有很多聪明的不苦逼的PI，仍然可以发好文章。
有很多不聪明的苦逼的PI，照样发不了好文章。
很多苦逼实验室，有苦逼成功的千老，也有更多苦逼但一直成功不了的千老。
苦逼和成功没什么关系，但有人非要把两者拉上关系，以便合理化剥削奴工，而且被洗
脑的奴工们还可以感恩戴德。

【在 j**********k 的大作中提到】
: 记得每年新生来我都告诉他们别选苦逼老板，很多有为青年不以为然的奔着paper
: machine lab去，青春最好的几年跟着苦逼了。自作孽不可活啊。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3.1
avatar
L*e
20 楼
Sounds like American complain Chinese workers: why do they have to work 12
hours a day and my job went to them, and ask other to boycott Chinese
products.
avatar
r*y
21 楼
其实这些学生博后跟老板之间也有类似的斯德哥尔摩效应。所以能不能抵制的了得看个
人的性格强硬度跟周围的学术环境。
avatar
n*7
22 楼
最后一点事关键
就是抱怨是没用的，也就发泄一下
要改变自己的命运，只能靠我们自己
其实这样的机会很多的。。。

of
applies
or
,

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: （大热天，不愿意出去玩儿，脑子也昏，再灌点水，最后一桶水，灌完就走）
: "Science is about passion, creativity and originality mixed with big dose of
: persistence."
: “scientific output does not seem to depend linearly on the hours spent in
: the lab, at least after a certain point, like say the aforementioned 50-60
: hrs per week."
: "... as so often in life, more is not necessarily better. This also applies
: to working hours and number of publications coming out of a lab. It is
: quality that counts, not quantity. All of us need time to relax and think or
: even dream... We all know the story of Isaac Newton wasting away his time,
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