有一种无知叫质问，有一种无耻叫妄想。# WaterWorld - 未名水世界
n*e
1 楼
下面这段“质问”就是这种无知无耻的典范。
1，妄想症的妄想是怪诞性的？还是非怪诞性的？逻辑混乱不混乱？
这些基本的要素都搞不清楚，就大言不惭地要给人科普，nile，你丢你医学校的老师的
脸啊！
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A6%84%E6%83%B3%E7%97%87
http://www.baike.com/wiki/%E5%A6%84%E6%83%B3%E7%97%87
2，nile在标题上问的是“什么是妄想”，但在内容你讲的是“妄想症”。
nile知道这两个名词的区别吗？
尼罗河完全可以反问，凭什么说搞不清不知道的是尼罗河。为什么是nile丢老师的脸而
不是你丢你家祖宗八代的脸。你又凭什么说nile不知道两个名词的区别。但是与这种基
佬人渣作任何对话都会给人一种吃下去一只刚刚从大粪里爬出来的蛆的感觉。所以我不
会问你任何问题。直到你把你所谓的真理说出来，nile自然会把耳光打在你的脸上。让
大家知道你有多愚蠢无知。
你的问题微镜先生已经回答过了：“妄想症的妄想是怪诞性的？还是非怪诞性的？”。
对这个问题的回答可以即肯定又否定，都是正确的。
『妄想症的妄想是非怪诞性的，否则就不能做妄想症的诊断，这是妄想症的妄想与精神
分裂症的妄想的区别， 不存在“可以即肯定又否定，都是正确的”的答案。』
你终于鼓起勇气表达你的见解了。要不然人们还真的不知道你就是一根搅屎棒。不过你
最好把你的搅屎棒插到该插的地方，而不是用来讨论学术。微镜先生把你比作红卫兵，
实在是抬举你的。红卫兵虽然没有文化，起码胸怀理想。你是什么东西。你以为在股沟
里找到一根鸡毛就拥有真理了？
对微镜先生的回答nile是赞同的。如果把妄想症的妄想表现限定于非怪诞性，同时认定
怪诞性妄想只能在精神分裂症中出现。一个很容易预计的结果就是以怪诞性妄想为单一
表现的妄想症无法诊断。这一原则性的错误在2013年新版的DMS-5，已经得到纠正。The
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5
) is the 2013 update to the American Psychiatric Association's (APA)
classification and diagnostic tool. In the United States the DSM serves as a
universal authority for psychiatric diagnosis. 附2引证的文献就是根据DMS-5的
诊断标准对妄想症的科学阐述。
妄想（delusion）在精神性疾患中是一个症状，妄想可以出现在几种精神性疾患中。而
妄想症（delusional disorder）是以妄想为单一表现的精神性疾患，没有精神分裂症
必须的幻觉语言和行为异常。本人在关于张纯如的讨论中兼顾了上面两种情况。妄想症
中的妄想与精神分裂症的妄想没有本质的不同。差别仅仅是有没有其他症状的伴随出现。
妄想症，有两个典型的特征。第一是荒谬性。荒谬性，从逻辑角度可以分析为两种，或
者内在逻辑混乱，或者前提错误。
bizarre delusions就是nile所谓内在逻辑混乱：Delusions are deemed bizarre if
they are clearly implausible, not understandable, and not derived from
ordinary life experiences。注意这两个关键词：不合理implausible，不可理解not
understandable。
而non-bizarre delusions相当于nile所说的前提错误，如果接受前提为真，患者并没
有内在逻辑的混乱。 但是患者的前提经不起第三者查证。即使在反对证据面前，患者
也不会改变观念。Non-bizarre delusions typically are beliefs of something
occurring in a person’s life which is not out of the realm of possibility.
All of these situations could be true or possible, but the person suffering
from this disorder knows them not to be (e.g., through fact-checking, third
-person confirmation, etc.).
第二个特征是明确性和坚定性，表达的意思非常清楚，坚信不疑决不改变。Delusions
that express a loss of control over mind or body are generally considered to
be bizarre and reflect a lower degree of insight and a stronger conviction
to hold such belief compared to when they are non-bizarre. 注意a stronger
conviction to hold such belief。
附： Delusional Disorder Symptoms By Psych Central Staff
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/delusional-disorder-symptoms/
Delusional disorder is characterized by the presence of either bizarre or
non-bizarre delusions which have persisted for at least one month. Non-
bizarre delusions typically are beliefs of something occurring in a person
’s life which is not out of the realm of possibility. For example, the
person may believe their significant other is cheating on them, that someone
close to them is about to die, a friend is really a government agent, etc.
All of these situations could be true or possible, but the person suffering
from this disorder knows them not to be (e.g., through fact-checking, third-
person confirmation, etc.). Delusions are deemed bizarre if they are clearly
implausible, not understandable, and not derived from ordinary life
experiences (e.g., an individual’s belief that a stranger has removed his
or her internal organs and replaced them with someone else’s organs without
leaving any wounds or scars). Delusions that express a loss of control over
mind or body are generally considered to be bizarre and reflect a lower
degree of insight and a stronger conviction to hold such belief compared to
when they are non-bizarre. Accordingly, if an individual has bizarre
delusions, a clinician will specify “with bizarre content” when
documenting the delusional disorder.
People who have this disorder generally don’t experience a marked
impairment in their daily functioning in a social, occupational or other
important setting. Outward behavior is not noticeably bizarre or objectively
characterized as out-of-the-ordinary.
The delusions can not be better accounted for by another disorder, such as
schizophrenia, which is also characterized by delusions (which are bizarre).
The delusions also cannot be better accounted for by a mood disorder, if
the mood disturbances have been relatively brief. The lifetime prevalence of
delusional disorder has been estimated at around 0.2% .
Specific Diagnostic Criteria
1. Delusions lasting for at least 1 month’s duration.
2. Criterion A for Schizophrenia has never been met. Note: Tactile and
olfactory hallucinations may be present in Delusional Disorder if they are
related to the delusional theme.Criterion A of Schizophrenia requires two (
or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time
during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):
1. delusions
2. hallucinations
3. disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
4. grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
5. negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
Note: Criteria A of Schizophrenia requires only one symptom if delusions are
bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running
commentary on the person’s behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices
conversing with each other.
3. Apart from the impact of the delusion(s) or its ramifications,
functioning is not markedly impaired and behavior is not obviously odd or
bizarre.
4. If mood episodes have occurred concurrently with delusions, their
total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the delusional
periods.
5. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a
substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical
condition.
Specify type (the following types are assigned based on the predominant
delusional theme):
• Erotomanic Type: delusions that another person, usually of
higher status, is in love with the individual
• Grandiose Type: delusions of inflated worth, power, knowledge,
identity, or special relationship to a deity or famous person
• Jealous Type: delusions that the individual’s sexual partner is
unfaithful
• Persecutory Type: delusions that the person (or someone to whom
the person is close) is being malevolently treated in some way
• Somatic Type: delusions that the person has some physical defect
or general medical condition
• Mixed Type: delusions characteristic of more than one of the
above types but no one theme predominates
• Unspecified Type
Treatment for Delusional Disorder
This entry has been updated for 2013 DSM-5 criteria; diagnostic code: 297.1.
1，妄想症的妄想是怪诞性的？还是非怪诞性的？逻辑混乱不混乱？
这些基本的要素都搞不清楚，就大言不惭地要给人科普，nile，你丢你医学校的老师的
脸啊！
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A6%84%E6%83%B3%E7%97%87
http://www.baike.com/wiki/%E5%A6%84%E6%83%B3%E7%97%87
2，nile在标题上问的是“什么是妄想”，但在内容你讲的是“妄想症”。
nile知道这两个名词的区别吗？
尼罗河完全可以反问，凭什么说搞不清不知道的是尼罗河。为什么是nile丢老师的脸而
不是你丢你家祖宗八代的脸。你又凭什么说nile不知道两个名词的区别。但是与这种基
佬人渣作任何对话都会给人一种吃下去一只刚刚从大粪里爬出来的蛆的感觉。所以我不
会问你任何问题。直到你把你所谓的真理说出来，nile自然会把耳光打在你的脸上。让
大家知道你有多愚蠢无知。
你的问题微镜先生已经回答过了：“妄想症的妄想是怪诞性的？还是非怪诞性的？”。
对这个问题的回答可以即肯定又否定，都是正确的。
『妄想症的妄想是非怪诞性的，否则就不能做妄想症的诊断，这是妄想症的妄想与精神
分裂症的妄想的区别， 不存在“可以即肯定又否定，都是正确的”的答案。』
你终于鼓起勇气表达你的见解了。要不然人们还真的不知道你就是一根搅屎棒。不过你
最好把你的搅屎棒插到该插的地方，而不是用来讨论学术。微镜先生把你比作红卫兵，
实在是抬举你的。红卫兵虽然没有文化，起码胸怀理想。你是什么东西。你以为在股沟
里找到一根鸡毛就拥有真理了？
对微镜先生的回答nile是赞同的。如果把妄想症的妄想表现限定于非怪诞性，同时认定
怪诞性妄想只能在精神分裂症中出现。一个很容易预计的结果就是以怪诞性妄想为单一
表现的妄想症无法诊断。这一原则性的错误在2013年新版的DMS-5，已经得到纠正。The
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5
) is the 2013 update to the American Psychiatric Association's (APA)
classification and diagnostic tool. In the United States the DSM serves as a
universal authority for psychiatric diagnosis. 附2引证的文献就是根据DMS-5的
诊断标准对妄想症的科学阐述。
妄想（delusion）在精神性疾患中是一个症状，妄想可以出现在几种精神性疾患中。而
妄想症（delusional disorder）是以妄想为单一表现的精神性疾患，没有精神分裂症
必须的幻觉语言和行为异常。本人在关于张纯如的讨论中兼顾了上面两种情况。妄想症
中的妄想与精神分裂症的妄想没有本质的不同。差别仅仅是有没有其他症状的伴随出现。
妄想症，有两个典型的特征。第一是荒谬性。荒谬性，从逻辑角度可以分析为两种，或
者内在逻辑混乱，或者前提错误。
bizarre delusions就是nile所谓内在逻辑混乱：Delusions are deemed bizarre if
they are clearly implausible, not understandable, and not derived from
ordinary life experiences。注意这两个关键词：不合理implausible，不可理解not
understandable。
而non-bizarre delusions相当于nile所说的前提错误，如果接受前提为真，患者并没
有内在逻辑的混乱。 但是患者的前提经不起第三者查证。即使在反对证据面前，患者
也不会改变观念。Non-bizarre delusions typically are beliefs of something
occurring in a person’s life which is not out of the realm of possibility.
All of these situations could be true or possible, but the person suffering
from this disorder knows them not to be (e.g., through fact-checking, third
-person confirmation, etc.).
第二个特征是明确性和坚定性，表达的意思非常清楚，坚信不疑决不改变。Delusions
that express a loss of control over mind or body are generally considered to
be bizarre and reflect a lower degree of insight and a stronger conviction
to hold such belief compared to when they are non-bizarre. 注意a stronger
conviction to hold such belief。
附： Delusional Disorder Symptoms By Psych Central Staff
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/delusional-disorder-symptoms/
Delusional disorder is characterized by the presence of either bizarre or
non-bizarre delusions which have persisted for at least one month. Non-
bizarre delusions typically are beliefs of something occurring in a person
’s life which is not out of the realm of possibility. For example, the
person may believe their significant other is cheating on them, that someone
close to them is about to die, a friend is really a government agent, etc.
All of these situations could be true or possible, but the person suffering
from this disorder knows them not to be (e.g., through fact-checking, third-
person confirmation, etc.). Delusions are deemed bizarre if they are clearly
implausible, not understandable, and not derived from ordinary life
experiences (e.g., an individual’s belief that a stranger has removed his
or her internal organs and replaced them with someone else’s organs without
leaving any wounds or scars). Delusions that express a loss of control over
mind or body are generally considered to be bizarre and reflect a lower
degree of insight and a stronger conviction to hold such belief compared to
when they are non-bizarre. Accordingly, if an individual has bizarre
delusions, a clinician will specify “with bizarre content” when
documenting the delusional disorder.
People who have this disorder generally don’t experience a marked
impairment in their daily functioning in a social, occupational or other
important setting. Outward behavior is not noticeably bizarre or objectively
characterized as out-of-the-ordinary.
The delusions can not be better accounted for by another disorder, such as
schizophrenia, which is also characterized by delusions (which are bizarre).
The delusions also cannot be better accounted for by a mood disorder, if
the mood disturbances have been relatively brief. The lifetime prevalence of
delusional disorder has been estimated at around 0.2% .
Specific Diagnostic Criteria
1. Delusions lasting for at least 1 month’s duration.
2. Criterion A for Schizophrenia has never been met. Note: Tactile and
olfactory hallucinations may be present in Delusional Disorder if they are
related to the delusional theme.Criterion A of Schizophrenia requires two (
or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time
during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):
1. delusions
2. hallucinations
3. disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
4. grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
5. negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
Note: Criteria A of Schizophrenia requires only one symptom if delusions are
bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running
commentary on the person’s behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices
conversing with each other.
3. Apart from the impact of the delusion(s) or its ramifications,
functioning is not markedly impaired and behavior is not obviously odd or
bizarre.
4. If mood episodes have occurred concurrently with delusions, their
total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the delusional
periods.
5. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a
substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical
condition.
Specify type (the following types are assigned based on the predominant
delusional theme):
• Erotomanic Type: delusions that another person, usually of
higher status, is in love with the individual
• Grandiose Type: delusions of inflated worth, power, knowledge,
identity, or special relationship to a deity or famous person
• Jealous Type: delusions that the individual’s sexual partner is
unfaithful
• Persecutory Type: delusions that the person (or someone to whom
the person is close) is being malevolently treated in some way
• Somatic Type: delusions that the person has some physical defect
or general medical condition
• Mixed Type: delusions characteristic of more than one of the
above types but no one theme predominates
• Unspecified Type
Treatment for Delusional Disorder
This entry has been updated for 2013 DSM-5 criteria; diagnostic code: 297.1.
