maybe you should write your original post here in English, it's better for others to give a good advice. maybe it's your English. I have seen plenty students/postdocs (including native speakers) who couldn't write a reasonable article at all no matter how much time they put.
@bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good. Just for expressive purposes, it's sufficient. But writing is too a broad concept. There can be several reasons that one cannot write well, like style or structure, not just language issues..obviously it takes time to improve, since they are not a single problem but multiple.
for a
【在 b******d 的大作中提到】 : maybe you should write your original post here in English, it's better for : others to give a good advice. maybe it's your English. I have seen : plenty students/postdocs (including native speakers) who couldn't write a : reasonable article at all no matter how much time they put.
As far as your English is concerned in the case below, it is too casual like mine...I got blamed by my boss all the time, and always been told it would easier to rewrite than to revise mine...Additionally, SCIENTIFIC writing is certainly(maybe far) beyond English (and writing as well). I do reasonable with aspects other than English with which I am trying to be more careful/mindful...
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good. Just for : expressive purposes, it's sufficient. But writing is too a broad concept. : There can be several reasons that one cannot write well, like style or : structure, not just language issues..obviously it takes time to improve, : since they are not a single problem but multiple. : : for : a
首先,第一作者的定义是起草第一稿的那个人。只要基本数据和文章的大体是你写的, 即使你的老板作了改动,第一作者也应该是你的。但是,具体到每个老板的作风不一样 ,所以这个很难说。 我不知道你是研究生还是博士后,如果是研究生,因为你刚来两年,还有很多时间来完 善,这个具体的文章的署名权就只能让老板自己去决定了。我的建议是你先尽力的写第 一稿,然后在投稿前让老板去把关。他如果非要说写得特别烂,必须从头写,然后让他 一作,那么你大概也只好服了。关键是,等他写完后,你自己仔细读读,看看和你写的 有什么差别,这样才好学习。 如果你是博士后,那么这个文章可能对你很重要,特别是万一你要找后家。所以你要尽 量确定自己能放在一作。在这种情况下,我认为,文章写得好不好,关键是是否能够清 楚地表达你的意思。如果你是外国人,而且对英语不是很熟练的话,没有必要因为追求 完美而忽略了你写文章的初衷。你写文章的本意是为了present your data in a clear background. 所以,对于前面的介绍,最好要简短而清晰,不要因为追求完美而写太 长的介绍和讨论。实际上,太长的讨论其实一般都是那种漏洞比
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good. Just for : expressive purposes, it's sufficient. But writing is too a broad concept. : There can be several reasons that one cannot write well, like style or : structure, not just language issues..obviously it takes time to improve, : since they are not a single problem but multiple. : : for : a
s*y
47 楼
I forget exactly where I saw this, but I do remember, according to some sort of guideline, the people who makes the first draft is the first author. However, in biology, when you are preparing the data, you are in fact making the "draft". Therefore the one contribute the most to the data are the first author.
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】 : I forget exactly where I saw this, but I do remember, according to some sort : of guideline, the people who makes the first draft is the first author. : However, in biology, when you are preparing the data, you are in fact making : the "draft". Therefore the one contribute the most to the data are the : first author.
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good. Just for : expressive purposes, it's sufficient. But writing is too a broad concept. : There can be several reasons that one cannot write well, like style or : structure, not just language issues..obviously it takes time to improve, : since they are not a single problem but multiple. : : for : a
according to this paragraph, your writing is fine. if it is me, i will improve like this: @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good, maybe just good enough for communication purposes. As we know writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills; in addition to language itself, there are still several other aspects that could prevent one from writing well, like style or structure issue...obviously it takes time to improve, since there are not a single problem but multiple
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good. Just for : expressive purposes, it's sufficient. But writing is too a broad concept. : There can be several reasons that one cannot write well, like style or : structure, not just language issues..obviously it takes time to improve, : since they are not a single problem but multiple. : : for : a
l*7
54 楼
Thanks a lot. It really makes a difference. I see it. You string those pieces into a complete and clear sentence. I think that's why sometimes people cannot get an idea about what I am saying. The way I put it is too implicit.
there well, since
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】 : according to this paragraph, your writing is fine. if it is me, i will : improve like this: : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good, maybe just good : enough for communication purposes. As we know writing is a complicated : activity requiring multiple skills; in addition to language itself, there : are still several other aspects that could prevent one from writing well, : like style or structure issue...obviously it takes time to improve, since : there are not a single problem but multiple
s*y
55 楼
let me try my version: I agree that @bgwizard could be correct that my English may not be good enough except for the purpose of daily communications. It is well recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.For example, issues with style or structure of the sentence can become problems that take time to improve.
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】 : according to this paragraph, your writing is fine. if it is me, i will : improve like this: : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good, maybe just good : enough for communication purposes. As we know writing is a complicated : activity requiring multiple skills; in addition to language itself, there : are still several other aspects that could prevent one from writing well, : like style or structure issue...obviously it takes time to improve, since : there are not a single problem but multiple
b*j
56 楼
even better... 个人认为写的好坏 关键看 副词,连接词 还有从句的应用
recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.For example, issues with style or structure of the sentence can become problems that take time to improve.
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】 : let me try my version: : I agree that @bgwizard could be correct that my English may not be good : enough except for the purpose of daily communications. It is well recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.For example, issues with style or structure of the sentence can become problems that take time to improve.
Yes, those things make the structure of the paragraph.
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】 : even better... : 个人认为写的好坏 关键看 副词,连接词 还有从句的应用 : : recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. : In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to : prevent one from writing well.For example, issues with style or structure of : the sentence can become problems that take time to improve.
写一篇paper, first, you need to define what's the purpose of this paper, who are your target audiences, and what's the storyline inside your paper. Then you need to build the frame of this paper. Last but not least, you add details to the frame, like adding meats to the frame and making the story complete and vivid. From my observation,Step 3 is the one that needs more language skills, but most Chinese here need signficant improvement in step 1 and 2. I'm still struggling to do better on step 1 and
@magicfinger2 Thanks for the idea. I post one paragraph from the results part, which is the part that has been most heavily revised. I know his version is more attractive, or luring; while mine is simply in plain language, in a bland tone. But I still don't get the clue. I mean, next time when I write, I might be very probably to write in the same way. Though perhaps this is too long for a posting in a discussion forum, it will be beneficial for me to get an idea at least.. By the way, I attache
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @magicfinger2 Thanks for the idea. I post one paragraph from the results : part, which is the part that has been most heavily revised. I know his : version is more attractive, or luring; while mine is simply in plain : language, in a bland tone. But I still don't get the clue. I mean, next : time when I write, I might be very probably to write in the same way. : Though perhaps this is too long for a posting in a discussion forum, it : will be beneficial for me to get an idea at least.. By the way, I : attache
上面Sunnyday讲的很好,我完全赞同。 补充一点,就是你要为读者而写,keep the reader in mind. 你现在是为自己而写。还有一点和语言,写作都无关,是关于你自己的思路和对 结果的理 解。你老板显然从同样的数据里看出了比你看到的更多的东西。 Sunnyday说了,你自己也说了,这个不是你英语水平的问题。一个是写作风格,一个是 自己的思 路。这两点有待提高。这些是新手常见得问题,几乎每个人都经过这个阶段。不用太沮 丧,虚心学, 你会掌握的。
results next it
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @magicfinger2 Thanks for the idea. I post one paragraph from the results : part, which is the part that has been most heavily revised. I know his : version is more attractive, or luring; while mine is simply in plain : language, in a bland tone. But I still don't get the clue. I mean, next : time when I write, I might be very probably to write in the same way. : Though perhaps this is too long for a posting in a discussion forum, it : will be beneficial for me to get an idea at least.. By the way, I : attache
s*n
70 楼
Definitely, your boss's version is much better than yours. You need to organize your idea and sentences.
can you post your boss's version again? it seems that that is not a version where change of comments are accepted.
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @magicfinger2 Thanks for the idea. I post one paragraph from the results : part, which is the part that has been most heavily revised. I know his : version is more attractive, or luring; while mine is simply in plain : language, in a bland tone. But I still don't get the clue. I mean, next : time when I write, I might be very probably to write in the same way. : Though perhaps this is too long for a posting in a discussion forum, it : will be beneficial for me to get an idea at least.. By the way, I : attache
s*y
73 楼
你看楼主的老板就写的很好啊,第一和第二点一般都是比较容易写的。第三点要 取决于语境和该数据如何。如果是一个很强的结论,那么就用一个比较强的话来说这个 结果证实了你的假说中的那个那个部分。如果是一个很弱的结论,那么就说这个结果倾 向于认为什么什么,然后你还需要什么什么来证实,从而引出下一个实验。 比方说,假如我用了两种方法来测量同一个问题的话,我会在第一个结果之后说 类似这样的话:This result suggested that.... In order to confirm this conclusion with a different method, xxx was performed ... The result is in well agreement with the previous one. 另外,第三点一般来讲,并不是对每个数据都必须的,但是一般应该时不时的提一下,特别是在每一个block of data 之后。
recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.For
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】 : let me try my version: : I agree that @bgwizard could be correct that my English may not be good : enough except for the purpose of daily communications. It is well recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.For example, issues with style or structure of the sentence can become problems that take time to improve.
不是具体的分析啦。。。 像我刚才讲的那样,只是一个非常短的小结,或者引出下一个实验来用的句子。 一般是在几个相关的小数据之后才写一次第三点的。不是每一句都必须写。 比方说。 To test whether A possess binding affinity for B, co-immuneprecipitation of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results (as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a reciprocal manner. Pulldown with endogenous A and B was also performed and the result is in well agreement with the former test (Fig 1.B). In order to test whether A binds to B directly, purifie
of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results ( as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a reciprocal manner. Pulldown wit binding domain for B, which was not reported before and therefore need to be elucidated here...
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】 : 不是具体的分析啦。。。 : 像我刚才讲的那样,只是一个非常短的小结,或者引出下一个实验来用的句子。 : 一般是在几个相关的小数据之后才写一次第三点的。不是每一句都必须写。 : 比方说。 : To test whether A possess binding affinity for B, co-immuneprecipitation of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results (as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a reciprocal manner. Pulldown with endogenous A and B was also performed and the result is in well agreement with the former test (Fig 1.B). In order to test whether A binds to B directly, purifie
C*C
86 楼
Too formal, like a technical paper. My simple version… @bgwizard could be right about my English - good enough for daily usage, but still need improvement for technical papers. And I do understand that a good writing requires more than language skills. Style and structure are also important. All take time to improve.
recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】 : let me try my version: : I agree that @bgwizard could be correct that my English may not be good : enough except for the purpose of daily communications. It is well recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to prevent one from writing well.For example, issues with style or structure of the sentence can become problems that take time to improve.
C*C
87 楼
I want more Baozi... :-) Thanks.
And skills. of
【在 C**C 的大作中提到】 : Too formal, like a technical paper. My simple version… : @bgwizard could be right about my English - good : enough for daily usage, but still need improvement for technical papers. And : I do understand that a good writing requires more than language skills. : Style and structure are also important. All take time to improve. : : recognized that writing is a complicated activity requiring multiple skills. : In addition to the language per se, several other factors still exist to : prevent one from writing well.
of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results (as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a reciprocal manner. Pulldown with endogenous A and B was also performed and the result is in well agreement with the former test (Fig 1.B). In order to test whether A binds to B directly, purified protein A and B was used in to a binding domain for B, which was not reported before and therefore need
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】 : 不是具体的分析啦。。。 : 像我刚才讲的那样,只是一个非常短的小结,或者引出下一个实验来用的句子。 : 一般是在几个相关的小数据之后才写一次第三点的。不是每一句都必须写。 : 比方说。 : To test whether A possess binding affinity for B, co-immuneprecipitation of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results (as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a reciprocal manner. Pulldown with endogenous A and B was also performed and the result is in well agreement with the former test (Fig 1.B). In order to test whether A binds to B directly, purifie
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good. Just for : expressive purposes, it's sufficient. But writing is too a broad concept. : There can be several reasons that one cannot write well, like style or : structure, not just language issues..obviously it takes time to improve, : since they are not a single problem but multiple. : : for : a
G*7
97 楼
still not very concise. and i do not see what lxm is trying to communicate in response to bgwizard.
there well, since
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】 : according to this paragraph, your writing is fine. if it is me, i will : improve like this: : @bgwizard you are right. I can't say my English is good, maybe just good : enough for communication purposes. As we know writing is a complicated : activity requiring multiple skills; in addition to language itself, there : are still several other aspects that could prevent one from writing well, : like style or structure issue...obviously it takes time to improve, since : there are not a single problem but multiple
G*7
98 楼
up up. 写作不能太descriptive。要用解释目的、意义的commentary把方法和记过的details包 装起来。
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : 请问sunnyday,有没有相关的资料可以学校这种八股文啊? 谢谢啦 :) : 另外我想知道怎么把包子发给你。 : : of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results : (as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a : reciprocal manner. Pulldown with endogenous A and B was also performed and : the result is in well agreement with the former test (Fig 1.B). In order : to test whether A binds to B directly, purified protein A and B was used : in to : a binding domain for B, which was not reported before and therefore need
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : 请问sunnyday,有没有相关的资料可以学校这种八股文啊? 谢谢啦 :) : 另外我想知道怎么把包子发给你。 : : of exogenously expressed A and B was performed in Hela cells. The results : (as shown in Fig 1.A) suggest that A and B can pulldown each other in a : reciprocal manner. Pulldown with endogenous A and B was also performed and : the result is in well agreement with the former test (Fig 1.B). In order : to test whether A binds to B directly, purified protein A and B was used : in to : a binding domain for B, which was not reported before and therefore need
y*i
102 楼
去书店买本 “The elemetents of style”,认真读两遍。然后写文章的时候经常翻 翻。你还没注意到英文语序,风格和中文的不同,所以写的东西有点拧着的味道。你老 板写的的确是更合英文的风格。
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : @magicfinger2 Thanks for the idea. I post one paragraph from the results : part, which is the part that has been most heavily revised. I know his : version is more attractive, or luring; while mine is simply in plain : language, in a bland tone. But I still don't get the clue. I mean, next : time when I write, I might be very probably to write in the same way. : Though perhaps this is too long for a posting in a discussion forum, it : will be beneficial for me to get an idea at least.. By the way, I : attache
你老板抢一作有点不地道,不过如果他动手大改了paper,那就忍了吧,毕竟能把paper 发了是首要目标 我听朋友提到过,在一些专业里,谁主笔写,谁是first author 当然,不同的人有不同的风格,有的老板动手改了很多,但依然会让学生一作,尤其是 paper的idea和数据分析之类的工作来自于学生 有一个办法是,在文章的脚注或尾注上加以说明,比如“本文的idea来自于XX,实验、 数据分析由XX完成,XX和YY共同完成了写作”。或者“XX and YY have equal contribution to this paper” 写paper以及grant proposal不仅仅是要准确地表达,更难的(也是常常决定paper成功 与否的)是在准确的基础上写得有说服力。这是写作(学术或非学术)中的高级阶段, 不仅仅是语言的问题了 我的美国老板今年拿到了一个新grant,他感慨:it's the 5th revision, and trust me, it is not that different from the 4th. it's all about writing. 我的经验是
GOOD point. here is the link: http://www.bartleby.com/141/ In an issue of the journal of the-Scientist, I remember there was an essay introduing a pretty old book " the Science of the Scientific writing". There are many tips in it,i.e. "Spend 20-30 minute every morning and write an abract with 200-300 words. you will get used to write a scientific paper."
【在 y***i 的大作中提到】 : 可以在网上找一下 The elements of style,不长,超级实用。多看看,能去掉一半 : 的中国英语的味道。 : : 人下 : 重要
I read that essay long time ago, but totally missed this great point. Thanks!
【在 y***i 的大作中提到】 : 可以在网上找一下 The elements of style,不长,超级实用。多看看,能去掉一半 : 的中国英语的味道。 : : 人下 : 重要
t*d
124 楼
Personally, I believe the fundamental skill for writing a scientific paper is 'the logic'. Organize your paper following the logic in your study. Then you are almost done. If you cannot master fancy words, sentences and structures, you may write: First, we did blahblah. Second, we did blahblah. Third, we did blahblah. Finally, blahbla. It is not beautiful, but it is clear. Reviewers may complain, but few of them will reject your paper due to the naive structure. BTW, I think Logic + focus + deta
l*7
125 楼
My problem is that I cannot write in a story-telling way, which is my boss asked me to do. This is because simple description and narration will lead to boredom.
paper Then blahblah. is due to paper.
【在 t*d 的大作中提到】 : Personally, I believe the fundamental skill for writing a scientific paper : is 'the logic'. Organize your paper following the logic in your study. Then : you are almost done. If you cannot master fancy words, sentences and : structures, you may write: First, we did blahblah. Second, we did blahblah. : Third, we did blahblah. Finally, blahbla. It is not beautiful, but it is : clear. Reviewers may complain, but few of them will reject your paper due to : the naive structure. : BTW, I think Logic + focus + deta
h*o
126 楼
Sorry, your boss is a douchebag Mentor's responsbility goes far beyond designing hypothesis-driven expriments. It is his/her responsbility to teach you how to write scientifically.
D*e
127 楼
If you cant think, work for some1 who can. If you cant write, work for some1 who can. If you cant speak, work for some1 who can.
You just simply do not exactly know the significance of your findings, and do not know how to highlight them. No exciting story in your mind, therefore no logic flow.
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : My problem is that I cannot write in a story-telling way, which is my : boss asked me to do. This is because simple description and narration : will lead to boredom. : : paper : Then : blahblah. : is : due to : paper.
l*7
129 楼
That's just partly true. I enjoy thinking but not presenting. I actually like to write introduction and discussion which are extensions of the study and need some sort of imagination to write. For me, writing those parts is a creative process. But I am not good at presenting results, because I already see the trends and then spending time to restate them seems very boring. Though I know the importance of marketing and selling the work, I am just inherently unmotivated to do it.
and
【在 p****l 的大作中提到】 : You just simply do not exactly know the significance of your findings, and : do not know how to highlight them. : No exciting story in your mind, therefore no logic flow.
l*7
130 楼
The main problem is that I am so selfish that I write only for myself not for readers. I have never thought about different ways of presenting because I never realize the existence of readers. That's my problem.
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : That's just partly true. I enjoy thinking but not presenting. I actually : like to write introduction and discussion which are extensions of the : study and need some sort of imagination to write. For me, writing those : parts is a creative process. But I am not good at presenting results, : because I already see the trends and then spending time to restate them : seems very boring. Though I know the importance of marketing and selling : the work, I am just inherently unmotivated to do it. : : : and
s*y
131 楼
Since now you know your problem, you need to work on it. You should try your BEST to write this article, and make yourself (not your boss) the first author!
【在 l*****7 的大作中提到】 : The main problem is that I am so selfish that I write only for myself not : for readers. I have never thought about different ways of presenting : because I never realize the existence of readers. That's my problem.
m*r
132 楼
很有用,先顶再读。感谢楼主和各位评论!!
d*y
133 楼
小人心里
【在 O******e 的大作中提到】 : 我不明白一PI来争一作,究竟是种什么心态呢??
l*o
134 楼
这个学生的老板写了一句: Surprisingly, Pitch Strength was not included because the grand average trend was analyzed in spectrograms. 我觉得这个surprisingly就有问题,明明是因为总平均趋势 已经在光谱图里分析过了所以pitch强度就没有包括,这个做法 是这个作者提前就已经设定好了的,而不是后来才观测到的意外 发现,那么为什么要用surprisingly这个词呢?就好像儿子还没 出生就已经规定将来要随着爸爸的姓,这没什么surprising的吧, 这个就是提前一个约定就是了。