三个包子求两篇文章 - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

g*e2015-06-21 07:06

1 楼

首先我们小时候的情况和现在很不一样，中美差别。就算都在美国，地区上肯定有差异
，有的地方会强悍一些，有的地方‘文明’一些。要考虑当地‘传统’（包括族群影响
）。比‘传统’更重要的是，校长。学区的作用更间接一些，有知道的人请讲一讲。
关于校长的作用，我想可以看三点。说，做，罚。就是说，校长怎么说，这么做，怎么
罚，和这三点是否一致，是否公平。如果说，做，罚一致，事情简单，按他/她说的做
，该报告报告，该还手还手。看校长说的度。麻烦是，如果校长说做罚不一致，不公平
，怎么办。这时候学区，教育局，甚至打官司都有可能，有知道的人也请讲一讲。
还有一点，罚的尺度。好像‘停课’是很糟糕的事情，高年级可能影响升学，那么低年
级，K-2，是不是关系不大？当然不得不转学就麻烦多了。到底停课有什么影响？如果
影响不大，我支持还手，停课就听课，这时候要和孩子坚决站在一起。主动欺负别人不
在此讨论。
其实，只要能够开始交流，事情就有办法，一般情况下没有人愿意事情极化到没有转机
，包括绝大多数家长，学校。所以，和学校的交流就很重要，要是总是出事情才找学校
，会麻烦一些，因为双方缺乏平时建立起来的相互信任。
最最最重要的是孩子和父母的交流，无论什么事情，孩子必须告诉父母。至于如何做到
，大家有什么建议？
希望大家能好好讨论讨论，都是为了我们的孩子好。别太过激，注意分寸。

e*u2015-06-21 07:06

2 楼

CMCT发放邀请中。
PT老用户。可以用一些小PT的邀请交换。

c*t2015-06-21 07:06

3 楼

http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/gcry20/21/1-2
A guide to the crystallographic analysis of icosahedral viruses
Alexander McPherson & Steven B. Larson
pages 3-56
DOI:10.1080/0889311X.2014.963572
Published online: 06 Jan 2015
Virus crystallography and structural virology: a personal perspective
Michael G. Rossmann
pages 57-102
DOI:10.1080/0889311X.2014.957282
Published online: 14 Nov 2014
多谢！

d*r2015-06-21 07:06

4 楼

这帮父母叫幼儿园，小学一二年纪的孩子fight back,
纯属搞笑么，估计以前自己小时候被打出阴影了。。。
说bully,小时候被欺负过，也欺负过别人，不过都是一个
院子的，小学里校风很好，基本上就没有bully事件。
高年级（5 6年纪）打架有，不会欺负1，2年级的小朋友。
初中不行了，到处都是bully, 自己想办法解决。
凡是fight back的，最后都变成混混了。其实国内bully
就是劫钱多点。如果真的变成那个混混的眼中丁，天天
欺负，要不惊动教务处给混混处分，要不只能转学了。
我运气不错，院子有个老大招着，平时也不惹事，一心
学习，比较平安的度过初中，高中马上就考到别的学校了。
其实bully的人也分人欺负，那种不怒自威的，人高马大的，
或者小有名气的，一般都没事。
美国要打要杀可 fight back可以，不过不要遇到拿枪的，
自己掂量掂量吧

【在 g******e 的大作中提到】

: 首先我们小时候的情况和现在很不一样，中美差别。就算都在美国，地区上肯定有差异
: ，有的地方会强悍一些，有的地方‘文明’一些。要考虑当地‘传统’（包括族群影响
: ）。比‘传统’更重要的是，校长。学区的作用更间接一些，有知道的人请讲一讲。
: 关于校长的作用，我想可以看三点。说，做，罚。就是说，校长怎么说，这么做，怎么
: 罚，和这三点是否一致，是否公平。如果说，做，罚一致，事情简单，按他/她说的做
: ，该报告报告，该还手还手。看校长说的度。麻烦是，如果校长说做罚不一致，不公平
: ，怎么办。这时候学区，教育局，甚至打官司都有可能，有知道的人也请讲一讲。
: 还有一点，罚的尺度。好像‘停课’是很糟糕的事情，高年级可能影响升学，那么低年
: 级，K-2，是不是关系不大？当然不得不转学就麻烦多了。到底停课有什么影响？如果
: 影响不大，我支持还手，停课就听课，这时候要和孩子坚决站在一起。主动欺负别人不

O*h2015-06-21 07:06

5 楼

同求，站内pm
感激不尽，可以交换小站PT

m*s2015-06-21 07:06

6 楼

https://www.sendspace.com/file/hbe209

A*i2015-06-21 07:06

7 楼

自己窝囊就别找理由
可以确定两点，第一，你来美国绝对不到5年
第二，你肯定没孩子

【在 d******r 的大作中提到】

: 这帮父母叫幼儿园，小学一二年纪的孩子fight back,
: 纯属搞笑么，估计以前自己小时候被打出阴影了。。。
: 说bully,小时候被欺负过，也欺负过别人，不过都是一个
: 院子的，小学里校风很好，基本上就没有bully事件。
: 高年级（5 6年纪）打架有，不会欺负1，2年级的小朋友。
: 初中不行了，到处都是bully, 自己想办法解决。
: 凡是fight back的，最后都变成混混了。其实国内bully
: 就是劫钱多点。如果真的变成那个混混的眼中丁，天天
: 欺负，要不惊动教务处给混混处分，要不只能转学了。
: 我运气不错，院子有个老大招着，平时也不惹事，一心

S*62015-06-21 07:06

8 楼

纯粹技术讨论。现在手机很普遍的，能不能让孩子遇到被欺负的时候，不是上去就回手
，而是用手机照相，录像，或者录音，存为证据向学校报告；如果对方动手上来，让
孩子第一时间打 911 报警处理，说对方暴力袭击身体（属实），我想任何学校都不希
望来警车留下记录吧。

【在 g******e 的大作中提到】

: 首先我们小时候的情况和现在很不一样，中美差别。就算都在美国，地区上肯定有差异
: ，有的地方会强悍一些，有的地方‘文明’一些。要考虑当地‘传统’（包括族群影响
: ）。比‘传统’更重要的是，校长。学区的作用更间接一些，有知道的人请讲一讲。
: 关于校长的作用，我想可以看三点。说，做，罚。就是说，校长怎么说，这么做，怎么
: 罚，和这三点是否一致，是否公平。如果说，做，罚一致，事情简单，按他/她说的做
: ，该报告报告，该还手还手。看校长说的度。麻烦是，如果校长说做罚不一致，不公平
: ，怎么办。这时候学区，教育局，甚至打官司都有可能，有知道的人也请讲一讲。
: 还有一点，罚的尺度。好像‘停课’是很糟糕的事情，高年级可能影响升学，那么低年
: 级，K-2，是不是关系不大？当然不得不转学就麻烦多了。到底停课有什么影响？如果
: 影响不大，我支持还手，停课就听课，这时候要和孩子坚决站在一起。主动欺负别人不

g*e2015-06-21 07:06

9 楼

恐怕不行，至少NYC学生不允许带手机进学校。校车上是否允许不知道，多半不可以。
而且在很多情况下，拿出手机拍照也不现实。不清楚是否可以带不是手机的相机，或者
录音。这种拍照录音是否有法律上的问题？希望大家有知道的讲一讲。
在没有可能拍照记录是情况下，证人的作用就很大，甚至是决定性的。
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12/06/new-call-for-change-in-n
http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/18/K285/AboutUs/Policies/d

【在 S******6 的大作中提到】

: 纯粹技术讨论。现在手机很普遍的，能不能让孩子遇到被欺负的时候，不是上去就回手
: ，而是用手机照相，录像，或者录音，存为证据向学校报告；如果对方动手上来，让
: 孩子第一时间打 911 报警处理，说对方暴力袭击身体（属实），我想任何学校都不希
: 望来警车留下记录吧。

m*i2015-06-21 07:06

10 楼

这么吓人.
用spy camera把

r*l2015-06-21 07:06

11 楼

这个帖子有一点我很同意：就是中美差别。
我们当年在中国，上大学之前基本上同学都是同一个城市的，只有上了大学后才有来自
不同地方的同学。虽然中国地域歧视也挺严重的，但是只有上了大学后才会接触到，而
那个时候都已经是成年人了。美国就不同，从幼儿园开始就什么人都有。而且这里种族
之间的差别要远远大于中国的地域差别，并且从外表就可以看出来。所以，中国的很多
经验在美国都行不通的。

【在 g******e 的大作中提到】

: 首先我们小时候的情况和现在很不一样，中美差别。就算都在美国，地区上肯定有差异
: ，有的地方会强悍一些，有的地方‘文明’一些。要考虑当地‘传统’（包括族群影响
: ）。比‘传统’更重要的是，校长。学区的作用更间接一些，有知道的人请讲一讲。
: 关于校长的作用，我想可以看三点。说，做，罚。就是说，校长怎么说，这么做，怎么
: 罚，和这三点是否一致，是否公平。如果说，做，罚一致，事情简单，按他/她说的做
: ，该报告报告，该还手还手。看校长说的度。麻烦是，如果校长说做罚不一致，不公平
: ，怎么办。这时候学区，教育局，甚至打官司都有可能，有知道的人也请讲一讲。
: 还有一点，罚的尺度。好像‘停课’是很糟糕的事情，高年级可能影响升学，那么低年
: 级，K-2，是不是关系不大？当然不得不转学就麻烦多了。到底停课有什么影响？如果
: 影响不大，我支持还手，停课就听课，这时候要和孩子坚决站在一起。主动欺负别人不

X*o2015-06-21 07:06

12 楼

可以支持fight back，但问题是这样做对孩子的影响是好是坏？会不会变得容易依赖暴
力解决纷争？那样的话不是毁了自己的孩子么。毕竟小孩子心智不成熟，你跟他们讲容
忍限度什么的基本没用。但老叫人欺负着肯定也不成。

d*u2015-06-21 07:06

13 楼

我觉得应该支持孩子fight back，但是应该教会他怎么去fight back。昨天我去幼儿园
接3岁的儿子，他们那里个班有个小孩挺烦人的，每次我接儿子的时候他就会把我儿子
手里的玩具抢走然后把我儿子推到我面前。看起来也算好心，但是我确实挺不喜欢他这
么做，每次老师也会叫他不要这样。之前我就跟儿子说如果有人总是这样推你，你要跟
他说：“stop！”。昨天这个小孩更进了一步，我去的时候儿子正在玩拼图，那个小孩
看到我来了，就把拼图抢走还把我儿子推开，可是我儿子还想再玩一会，就想去抢回来
。那个小孩就用了很大的力气把我儿子推开还想用手打我儿子。结果我儿子就拿着手里
的一个玩具车抡回去了，结果打倒那个小孩手上给打哭了。本来我还叫儿子不要抢，但
是后来还是告诉他，如果有人要推他打他，要叫：“stop！”。如果还是不行就要打回
去，不过手里最好不要抄家伙。也不知道他听懂了没有。

w*z2015-06-21 07:06

14 楼

支持孩子fight back

w*z2015-06-21 07:06

15 楼

支持孩子fight back

w*z2015-06-21 07:06

16 楼

支持孩子fight back

D*r2015-06-21 07:06

17 楼

In day care, the little kids being push around very often, the only thing
you can do is to report to the teacher, and teach your kids say "No" loudly.
My 2 yr old daughter being bit by other kids, she also bitted others.
This is not bully just kid's thing. They did not know what is right and
what is wrong yet.
2. Being bully while at grade school and mid school, the best way is to let
your kids go to learn some Gongfu or other martial arts. Let the other
knows you have "black belt". The bully one always pick someone soft.

d*12015-06-21 07:06

18 楼

Sunday in the Park
Bel Kaufman
It was still warm in the late-afternoon sun, and the city noises came
muffled through the trees in the park. She put her book down on the bench,
removed her sunglasses, and sighed contentedly. Morton was reading the
Times Magazine section, one arm flung around her shoulder; their three-year-
old son, Larry, was playing in the sandbox: a faint breeze fanned her hair
softly against her cheek. It was five-thirty of a Sunday afternoon, and the
small playground, tucked away in a corner of the park, was all but deserted
. The swings and seesaws stood motionless and abandoned, the slides were
empty, and only in the sandbox two little boys squatted diligently side by
side. How good this is, she thought, and almost smiled at her sense of well
-being. They must out in the sun more often; Morton was so city-pale,
cooped up all week inside the gray factorylike university. She squeezed his
arm affectionately and glanced at Larry, delighting in the pointed little
face frowning in concentration over the tunnel he was digging. The other
boy suddenly stood up and with a quick, deliberate swing of his chubby arm
threw a spadeful of sand at Larry. It just missed his head. Larry
continued digging; the boy remained standing, shovel raised, stolid and
impassive.
“No, no, little boy.” She shook her finger at him, her eyes searching
for the child’s mother or nurse. “We musn’t throw sand. It may get in
someone’s eyes and hurt. We must play nicely in the nice sandbox.” The
boy looked at her in unblinking expectancy. He was about Larry’s age but
perhaps ten pounds heavier, a husky little boy with none of Larry’s
quickness and sensitivity in his face. Where was his mother? The only
other people left in the playground were two women and a little girl on
roller skates leaving now through the gate, and man on a bench a few feet
away. He was a big man, and her seemed to be taking up the whole bench as
he held the Sunday comics close to his face. She supposed he was the child
’s father. He did not look up from his comics, but spat one deftly out of
the corner of his mouth. She turned her eyes away.
At that moment, as swiftly as before, the fat little boy threw another
spadeful of sand at Larry. This time some of it landed on his hair and
forehead. Larry looked up at his mother, his mouth tentative; her
expression would tell him whether to cry or not.
Her first instinct was to rush to her son, brush the sand out of his
hair, and punish the other child, but she controlled it. She always said
that she wanted Larry to learn to fight his own battles.
“Don’t do that, little boy,” she said sharply, leaning forward on the
bench. “You musn’t throw sand!”
The man on the bench moved his mouth as if to spit again, but instead
her spoke. He did not look at her, but at the boy only.
“You go right ahead, Joe,” he said loudly. “Throw all you want.
This here is a public sandbox.”
She felt a sudden weakness in her knees as she glanced at Morton. He
had become aware of what was happening. He put his Times down carefully on
his lap and turned his fine, lean face toward the man, smiling the shy,
apologetic smile he might have offered a student in pointing out an error in
his thinking. When he spoke to the man, it was with his usual
reasonableness.
“You’re quite right,” he said pleasantly, “but just because this is
a public place….”
The man lowered his funnies and looked at Morton. He looked at him from
head to foot, slowly and deliberately. “Yeah?” His insolent voice was
edged with menace. “My kid’s got just as good right here as yours, and if
he feels like throwing sand, he’ll throw it, and if you don’t like it,
you can take your kid the hell out of here.”
The children were listening, their eyes and mouths wide open, their
spades forgotten in small fists. She noticed the muscle in Morton’s jaw
tighten. He was rarely angry; he seldom lost his temper. She was suffused
with a tenderness for her husband and an impotent rage against the man for
involving him in a situation so alien and so distasteful to him.
“Now, just a minute,” Morton said courteously, “you must realize….”
“Aw, shut up,” said the man.
Her heart began to pound. Morton half rose; the Times slid to the
ground. Slowly the other man stood up. He took a couple of steps toward
Morton, then stopped. He flexed his great arms, waiting. She pressed her
trembling knees together. Would there be violence, fighting? How dreadful,
how incredible….She must do something, stop them, call for help. She
wanted to put her hand on her husband’s sleeve, to pull him down, but for
some reason she didn’t.
Morton adjusted his glasses. He was very pale. “This is ridiculous,”
he said unevenly. “I must ask you….”
“Oh, yeah?” said the man. He stood with his legs spread apart,
rocking a little, looking at Morton with utter scorn. “You and who else?”
For a moment the two men looked at each other nakedly. Then Morton
turned his back on the man and said quietly, “Come on, let’s get out of
her.” He walked awkwardly, almost limping with self-consciousness, to the
sandbox. He stooped and lifted Larry and his shovel out.
At one Larry came to life; his face lost its rapt expression and he
began to kick and cry. “I don’t want to go home, I want to play better, I
don’t want any supper, I don’t like supper….” It became a chat as they
walked, pulling their child between them, his feet dragging on the ground.
In order to get to the exit gate they had to pass the bench where the man
sat sprawling again. She was careful not to look at him. With all the
dignity she could summon, she pulled Larry’s sandy, perspiring little hand,
while Morton pulled the other. Slowly and with head high she walked with
her husband and child out of the playground.
Her first feelings was one of relief that a fight had been avoided, that
no one was hurt. Yet beneath it there was a layer of something else,
something heavy and inescapable. She sensed that it was more than just an
unpleasant incident, more than defeat of reason by force. She felt dimly it
had something to do with her and Morton, something acutely personal,
familiar, and important.
Suddenly Morton spoke. “It wouldn’t have proved anything.”
“What?” she asked.
“A fight. It wouldn’t have proved anything beyond the fact that he’s
bigger than I am.”
“Of course,” she said.
“The only possible outcome,” he continued reasonably, “would have
been—what? My glasses broken, perhaps a tooth or two replaced, a couple of
days’ work missed – and for what? For justice? For truth?”
“Of course,” she repeated. She quickened her step. She wanted only
to get home and to busy herself with her familiar tasks; perhaps then the
feeling, glued like heavy plaster on her heart, would be gone. Of all the
stupid, despicable bullies, she thought, pulling harder on Larry’s hand.
The child was still crying. Always before she had felt a tender pity for
his defenseless little body, the frail arms, the narrow shoulders with sharp
winglike shoulder blades, the thin and unsure legs, but now her mouth
tightened in resentment.
“Stop crying,” she said sharply. “I’m ashamed of you!” She felt
as if all three of them were tracking mud along the street. The child cried
louder.
If there had been an issue involved, she thought, if there had been
something to fight for…. But what else could her possibly have done? Allow
himself to be beaten? Attempt to educate the man? Call a policeman? “
Officer, there’s a man in the park who won’t stop his child from throwing
sand one mine….” The whole thing was as silly as that, and not worth
thinking about.
“Can’t you keep him quiet, for Pete’s sake?” Morton asked irritably.
“What do you suppose I’ve been trying to do?” she said.
Larry pulled back, dragging his feet.
“If you can’t discipline this child, I will,” Morton snapped, making
a move toward the boy.
But her voice stopped him. She was shocked to hear it, thin and cold
and penetrating with contempt. “Indeed?” she heard herself say. “You
and who else?”
以前上英文课，老师点评这篇文章时。这个纯老美，（她有一5岁孩子）非常肯定那欺
负人的父子俩。她认为，他们胜利了，他们可以在公园里enjoy 剩下的时间，而那一家
三口却会灰溜溜的回家！

【在 g******e 的大作中提到】

: 首先我们小时候的情况和现在很不一样，中美差别。就算都在美国，地区上肯定有差异
: ，有的地方会强悍一些，有的地方‘文明’一些。要考虑当地‘传统’（包括族群影响
: ）。比‘传统’更重要的是，校长。学区的作用更间接一些，有知道的人请讲一讲。
: 关于校长的作用，我想可以看三点。说，做，罚。就是说，校长怎么说，这么做，怎么
: 罚，和这三点是否一致，是否公平。如果说，做，罚一致，事情简单，按他/她说的做
: ，该报告报告，该还手还手。看校长说的度。麻烦是，如果校长说做罚不一致，不公平
: ，怎么办。这时候学区，教育局，甚至打官司都有可能，有知道的人也请讲一讲。
: 还有一点，罚的尺度。好像‘停课’是很糟糕的事情，高年级可能影响升学，那么低年
: 级，K-2，是不是关系不大？当然不得不转学就麻烦多了。到底停课有什么影响？如果
: 影响不大，我支持还手，停课就听课，这时候要和孩子坚决站在一起。主动欺负别人不

f*i2015-06-21 07:06

19 楼

所谓教育孩子打回去应该教育的是不受欺负的心态和气质，而不应该教育暴力解决问题
。所以，让孩子打回去我是赞同的，但是怎么打打是个问题。事实上越懦弱的人越容易
被欺负，最终憋着出现大问题的孩子大部分都是看起来很懦弱经常受欺负的孩子。

x*e2015-06-21 07:06

20 楼

Nice story. Will think about what I would do if in the same situation.

year-
hair
the
deserted

【在 d*****1 的大作中提到】

: Sunday in the Park
: Bel Kaufman
: It was still warm in the late-afternoon sun, and the city noises came
: muffled through the trees in the park. She put her book down on the bench,
: removed her sunglasses, and sighed contentedly. Morton was reading the
: Times Magazine section, one arm flung around her shoulder; their three-year-
: old son, Larry, was playing in the sandbox: a faint breeze fanned her hair
: softly against her cheek. It was five-thirty of a Sunday afternoon, and the
: small playground, tucked away in a corner of the park, was all but deserted
: . The swings and seesaws stood motionless and abandoned, the slides were

r*l2015-06-21 07:06

21 楼

那个老师有没有说，那三个人应该怎样做才能不灰溜溜的回家呢？

year-
hair
the
deserted

【在 d*****1 的大作中提到】

: Sunday in the Park
: Bel Kaufman
: It was still warm in the late-afternoon sun, and the city noises came
: muffled through the trees in the park. She put her book down on the bench,
: removed her sunglasses, and sighed contentedly. Morton was reading the
: Times Magazine section, one arm flung around her shoulder; their three-year-
: old son, Larry, was playing in the sandbox: a faint breeze fanned her hair
: softly against her cheek. It was five-thirty of a Sunday afternoon, and the
: small playground, tucked away in a corner of the park, was all but deserted
: . The swings and seesaws stood motionless and abandoned, the slides were

x*e2015-06-21 07:06

22 楼

good question. seeking answer to it too.

【在 r******l 的大作中提到】

: 那个老师有没有说，那三个人应该怎样做才能不灰溜溜的回家呢？
:
: year-
: hair
: the
: deserted

g*e2015-06-21 07:06

23 楼

如果这件事真的发生，首先看对方是什么人，穿鞋的没必要和光脚的斗狠。如果对方也
穿鞋，事情就好办一些。首先一个人开始take video，在开始录的时候，告诉那个人正
在录像并准备报警。另一个人和自己小孩子谈，告诉他正在发生的事情，问他是想继续
玩，还是回家。如果想继续玩，警告另一个小孩和他的父亲，如果再扔沙子，你会报警
。自己的小孩允许也扔沙子回去，如果他愿意。如果不想，挡在自己小孩和那个孩子之
间，保护自己小孩。同时另外一个人报警。如果只是被打掉两颗牙，没什么了不起。前
提：父母两个人，在城市里面，星期天下午，对方是穿鞋的，最大损失可以承受。如果
对方有可能有枪，直接走人并报警。

【在 r******l 的大作中提到】

: 那个老师有没有说，那三个人应该怎样做才能不灰溜溜的回家呢？
:
: year-
: hair
: the
: deserted

f*r2015-06-21 07:06

24 楼

hehe, 好象也不是完全不可能的。从场面上来看，大汉希望
文弱的教授先动手，这样不用承担责任；所以教授可以假意
挽着袖子要上，奈何夫人苦苦哀求劝止，这才勉强恨恨离开，
然而心里却十分庆幸？:-)
这里最有问题的是这个教授夫人，既然咽不下这口气，别人
问"you and who else"的时候为什么不自己站出来。

【在 r******l 的大作中提到】

: 那个老师有没有说，那三个人应该怎样做才能不灰溜溜的回家呢？
:
: year-
: hair
: the
: deserted