s*y
2 楼
这个月电费40+,Gas 130+
因为家里灶台,water heater, furnace都是gas,所以gas费高点
如果消耗同样的能量,比如烧一壶开水,用的电便宜还是gas便宜?
因为家里灶台,water heater, furnace都是gas,所以gas费高点
如果消耗同样的能量,比如烧一壶开水,用的电便宜还是gas便宜?
c*o
6 楼
这不是明摆的吗:电费便宜时用电便宜,起飞便宜时用气便宜
g*A
7 楼
奢侈啊·······
H*7
10 楼
当然是气。你们都是文科生?
a*a
11 楼
哈哈,上档次,好吃!
k*1
12 楼
gas
m*y
14 楼
Gas is so cheap that it's impossible for electricity to beat it, unless we
are in nuclear age.
But again, you still want an induction range, for it's cleaner. You don't
want burn out your oxygen and leave behind a lot of chemical residue.
are in nuclear age.
But again, you still want an induction range, for it's cleaner. You don't
want burn out your oxygen and leave behind a lot of chemical residue.
l*i
15 楼
不错。都是群众喜闻乐见的菜。
y*i
16 楼
电磁炉的效率和气炉几乎一样。
只可惜电磁炉必须用铁锅,好的不锈钢锅都不行,铝锅就更不行了。
只可惜电磁炉必须用铁锅,好的不锈钢锅都不行,铝锅就更不行了。
C*d
26 楼
用电的Heat pump加热在室外温度不是太冷的情况下一度电可以产生大于一度的热量。
比如在下面链接中:
http://www.mibnet.se/house/HeatPumps/NIBE2020HeatPumpCOPCurves.
在室外为冰点的情况下,一度电通过Heat pump能产生大于2.5度电的热量。而这种效
率随着室外温度升高而升高。
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 我算过,
: 1. 按照我们这的价格、surcharge & tax
: 2. 按照我们家的使用量,tier2 price
: 3. 假设热效率都是100%
: 产生100k BTU 用gas $0.44, 用电的话要$1.42
比如在下面链接中:
http://www.mibnet.se/house/HeatPumps/NIBE2020HeatPumpCOPCurves.
在室外为冰点的情况下,一度电通过Heat pump能产生大于2.5度电的热量。而这种效
率随着室外温度升高而升高。
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 我算过,
: 1. 按照我们这的价格、surcharge & tax
: 2. 按照我们家的使用量,tier2 price
: 3. 假设热效率都是100%
: 产生100k BTU 用gas $0.44, 用电的话要$1.42
i*k
28 楼
介个heat pump比永动机还厉害?多余的热量哪来的?
【在 C*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 用电的Heat pump加热在室外温度不是太冷的情况下一度电可以产生大于一度的热量。
: 比如在下面链接中:
: http://www.mibnet.se/house/HeatPumps/NIBE2020HeatPumpCOPCurves.
: 在室外为冰点的情况下,一度电通过Heat pump能产生大于2.5度电的热量。而这种效
: 率随着室外温度升高而升高。
【在 C*******d 的大作中提到】
![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 用电的Heat pump加热在室外温度不是太冷的情况下一度电可以产生大于一度的热量。
: 比如在下面链接中:
: http://www.mibnet.se/house/HeatPumps/NIBE2020HeatPumpCOPCurves.
: 在室外为冰点的情况下,一度电通过Heat pump能产生大于2.5度电的热量。而这种效
: 率随着室外温度升高而升高。
j*b
33 楼
用heat pump的需要注意一点是很多的t-stat不考虑heat pump的emergency heating用的是resistant,非常低效。如果用这些t-stat set back温度可能会适得其反,因为当温差大的时候t-stat会启动second stage,就是resistance。如果set back时间短的话可能省下的电不够resistant heating费的。
似乎说有的t-stat考虑到这一点。但是估计不便宜。
似乎说有的t-stat考虑到这一点。但是估计不便宜。
C*d
37 楼
对不起,应该是EER,不是SEER.
According to Wikipedia, The EER is related to the coefficient of performance
(COP) which is an instant measurement of the ratio between energy output
and energy input. An SEER of 13 is approximately equivalent to a COP of 3.43
which means 1 unit of energy moves 3.43 times of heat.
Of course, common (old) household heat pumps should be difficult to reach a
250% efficiency at 0 Celsius. But I won't be surprised if its efficiency is
more than 100%.
【在 t***s 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: seer好像不是那么定义的。那个图说0度时能有250%的效率我表示怀疑,一般家用空调
: 可能做不到。
According to Wikipedia, The EER is related to the coefficient of performance
(COP) which is an instant measurement of the ratio between energy output
and energy input. An SEER of 13 is approximately equivalent to a COP of 3.43
which means 1 unit of energy moves 3.43 times of heat.
Of course, common (old) household heat pumps should be difficult to reach a
250% efficiency at 0 Celsius. But I won't be surprised if its efficiency is
more than 100%.
【在 t***s 的大作中提到】
![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: seer好像不是那么定义的。那个图说0度时能有250%的效率我表示怀疑,一般家用空调
: 可能做不到。
t*s
38 楼
衡量air sourced heat pump的效率是用HSPF,SEER是衡量cooling A/C的。HSPF 8.5
以上才qualify去年的tax credit,相当于全年平均的COP 250%。
performance
43
a
is
【在 C*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 对不起,应该是EER,不是SEER.
: According to Wikipedia, The EER is related to the coefficient of performance
: (COP) which is an instant measurement of the ratio between energy output
: and energy input. An SEER of 13 is approximately equivalent to a COP of 3.43
: which means 1 unit of energy moves 3.43 times of heat.
: Of course, common (old) household heat pumps should be difficult to reach a
: 250% efficiency at 0 Celsius. But I won't be surprised if its efficiency is
: more than 100%.
以上才qualify去年的tax credit,相当于全年平均的COP 250%。
performance
43
a
is
【在 C*******d 的大作中提到】
![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 对不起,应该是EER,不是SEER.
: According to Wikipedia, The EER is related to the coefficient of performance
: (COP) which is an instant measurement of the ratio between energy output
: and energy input. An SEER of 13 is approximately equivalent to a COP of 3.43
: which means 1 unit of energy moves 3.43 times of heat.
: Of course, common (old) household heat pumps should be difficult to reach a
: 250% efficiency at 0 Celsius. But I won't be surprised if its efficiency is
: more than 100%.
j*b
46 楼
看看下面这段。所以用heat pump+resistance的注意一下。有的t-stat用了emergency
也不显示。很多都是温差超过3度就上resistance。
Programmable thermostats are generally not recommended for heat pumps. In
its cooling mode, a heat pump operates like an air conditioner, so turning
up the thermostat (either manually or with a programmable thermostat) will
save energy and money. But when a heat pump is in its heating mode, setting
back its thermostat can cause the unit to operate inefficiently, thereby
canceling out any savings achieved by lowering the temperature setting.
Maintaining a moderate setting is the most cost-effective practice. Recently
, however, some companies have begun selling specially designed programmable
thermostats for heat pumps, which make setting back the thermostat cost
effective. These thermostats typically use special algorithms to minimize
the use of backup electric resistance heat systems.
也不显示。很多都是温差超过3度就上resistance。
Programmable thermostats are generally not recommended for heat pumps. In
its cooling mode, a heat pump operates like an air conditioner, so turning
up the thermostat (either manually or with a programmable thermostat) will
save energy and money. But when a heat pump is in its heating mode, setting
back its thermostat can cause the unit to operate inefficiently, thereby
canceling out any savings achieved by lowering the temperature setting.
Maintaining a moderate setting is the most cost-effective practice. Recently
, however, some companies have begun selling specially designed programmable
thermostats for heat pumps, which make setting back the thermostat cost
effective. These thermostats typically use special algorithms to minimize
the use of backup electric resistance heat systems.
j*b
51 楼
看错了。应该是多级的不过你这个用于heat pump是3级加热的,而一般的heat pump t-
stat只是两级加热的。
stat只是两级加热的。
j*b
56 楼
其实我说的那个heat pump setback导致启动resistance并不是因为t-stat把2nd stage
和emergency用一根线。对于压缩机只有1级加热的hp,resistance就是即是2nd stage,
又是emergency。所以用一根线是合理的。
问题所在是t-stat智能太低。有时候你手动把温度调高,就是想启动二级,让温度快点
上来,而有时候是因为setback造成温差大。t-stat无法区分这个差别。而且也不能简
单地设置成只要setback就禁用2级,因为温度太低的时候禁用2级温度根本上不来。
和emergency用一根线。对于压缩机只有1级加热的hp,resistance就是即是2nd stage,
又是emergency。所以用一根线是合理的。
问题所在是t-stat智能太低。有时候你手动把温度调高,就是想启动二级,让温度快点
上来,而有时候是因为setback造成温差大。t-stat无法区分这个差别。而且也不能简
单地设置成只要setback就禁用2级,因为温度太低的时候禁用2级温度根本上不来。
t*s
57 楼
you can program it to use with 1-stage HP. and you don't have to
jump W and W2. it all depends on your system config.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 看了wiring diagram,是Y1, Y2共同做heating和cooling。但是W,W2 jump到一起都是
: 做emergency的。
: 你这个是对于存在2级加热的heat pump的t-stat。而常见的heat pump似乎主要是1级的
: ,你这个t-stat并不适用。而针对1级hp的t-stat就存在我说的问题。
jump W and W2. it all depends on your system config.
【在 j***b 的大作中提到】
![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: 看了wiring diagram,是Y1, Y2共同做heating和cooling。但是W,W2 jump到一起都是
: 做emergency的。
: 你这个是对于存在2级加热的heat pump的t-stat。而常见的heat pump似乎主要是1级的
: ,你这个t-stat并不适用。而针对1级hp的t-stat就存在我说的问题。
j*b
58 楼
设成一级也要jump w/e和w2。因为heat pump一级加热不需要W,而是用Y。w/e里面的e,必须和w2 jump到一起,因为我已经说了,resistance就是既是emergency,又是2nd stage。要是不jump那就或者没有emergency,或者没有2nd stage。所以还是存在问题。
这个问题的解决就两个方法,一个是提高t-stat智能----买贵的。再一个就是干脆不用2级,就是我的办法,架空它。
【在 t***s 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: you can program it to use with 1-stage HP. and you don't have to
: jump W and W2. it all depends on your system config.
这个问题的解决就两个方法,一个是提高t-stat智能----买贵的。再一个就是干脆不用2级,就是我的办法,架空它。
【在 t***s 的大作中提到】
![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png)
: you can program it to use with 1-stage HP. and you don't have to
: jump W and W2. it all depends on your system config.
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