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FPGA 的出路在哪

FPGA 的出路在哪# EE - 电子工程

m*g2011-01-03 08:01

1 楼

在本版看来一些帖子，还是有点疑问。大家都说把401k转到IRA然后转到ROTH IRA。现
在我的401k里面大概有2万多。我的问题如下：
（1）如果401k的钱一直不取，留着慢慢投资，等N年后老了来取，理论上可行吗？可到
有人帖子说账户被关才问这个问题的。公司会有权收回match的部分吗？
（2）401k转到IRA 怎么转，本人目前没有IRA账户，现在开可以吗？
（3）如果现在可以马上开IRA账户，开完后可以立刻将401k的钱转入吗？
（4）现在我也没有ROTH IRA 账户，现在开来得及吗？
请有经验的人多多直接。谢谢。

p*A2011-01-03 08:01

2 楼

【以下文字转载自 JobHunting 讨论区】
发信人: promiseA (promiseA), 信区: JobHunting
标题: *** 急招Python程序员（各种程度）***
关键字: python，程序员，refer
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Dec 12 01:07:58 2014, 美东)
公司在洛杉矶，现在急招各种程度的python程序员，可提供内部refer
如果有需要，请把简历发到 [email protected]
(function(){try{var s,a,i,j,r,c,l,b=document.getElementsByTagName("script");l=b[b.length-1].previousSibling;a=l.getAttribute('data-cfemail');if(a){s='';r=parseInt(a.substr(0,2),16);for(j=2;a.length-j;j+=2){c=parseInt(a.substr(j,2),16)^r;s+=String.fromCharCode(c);}s=document.createTextNode(s);l.parentNode.replaceChild(s,l);}}catch(e){}})();
/* ]]> */
公司可以办h1b，但是最好是近期（最晚两个月内）可以上班的。
职位1: 要求1-2年python经验。
职位2：（要两个人）：要求3年以上python/rest api经验。
职位3：要求python/django几年经验，并且有一定的管理经验的，是半技术半管理
的工作。多年做技术，但是对做管理有兴趣，想要尝试的，也可以考虑。
如果没有多年python经验，但是有几年其他语言的经验，并且有rest api经验，并且对
python有强烈兴趣，也可以考虑。
公司雇人的过程一般都进行的很快，一般on site后1星期就做出给offer或者不给的决
定了。

l*62011-01-03 08:01

3 楼

听人说用保险找医生配的和不用保险去walmart配的差不多，还麻烦，是这样吗？
望有经验的朋友指点一下。
谢谢！

g*e2011-01-03 08:01

4 楼

F1超过5年，选择以resident保税，去年收入少，有个娃，所以qualify for EIC(可退
税3k左右)。但听闻申报EIC被audit的概率很大，这样不仅会晚收到退税（退税额不包
括EIC有10k多，去年买了房，所以有8k的税），还很麻烦。请教象我这种情况要不要
claim EIC，被audit的可能大吗？另外，我已很仔细地读了596，所以即使audit，也不
会有问题，但LD觉着为了3k不仅不能立即拿到8k还要多麻烦去跟国税局大交道，不值。

A*t2011-01-03 08:01

5 楼

用了非线性回归大法加量子热力学对数20次方程涮的。

r*y2011-01-03 08:01

6 楼

use nrg2iso? but seems not to work on my ubuntu.

c*o2011-01-03 08:01

7 楼

本人毫无经验，谢谢
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器

a*82011-01-03 08:01

8 楼

做FPGA已经多年了，总体感觉好像就业机会比较窄。
要么需要板级设计经验，要么需要Embedded 的经验，要么就是转成ASIC digital
Designer。光会FPGA 实在是太窄了。
个人想转成ASIC digital designer。看到一些ASIC 公司再招FPGA emulation
engineer. 我想先就去，再转成ASIC engineer。大家说这个可能吗？

y*i2011-01-03 08:01

9 楼

对我来讲，3k很多钱了。。。。

a*u2011-01-03 08:01

10 楼

對，應該
100：10：1
鉑：金：銀

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

11 楼

You probably want to learn JS not just for the language itself
but its usage inside the web browser. In this case JavaScript:
The Definitive Guide is a good one for beginners albeit a little
bit outdated. Most stuff still applies though and you probably
want backwards compatibility to old browsers anyway.

【在 c*******o 的大作中提到】

: 本人毫无经验，谢谢
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器

S*s2011-01-03 08:01

12 楼

本身做FPGA emulation这块算是ASIC verification engineer的活儿吧
所以我估计要转也就能转做verification
何不学学embedded呢？
做系统比做芯片赚钱吧？
仅供参考！

【在 a*****8 的大作中提到】

: 做FPGA已经多年了，总体感觉好像就业机会比较窄。
: 要么需要板级设计经验，要么需要Embedded 的经验，要么就是转成ASIC digital
: Designer。光会FPGA 实在是太窄了。
: 个人想转成ASIC digital designer。看到一些ASIC 公司再招FPGA emulation
: engineer. 我想先就去，再转成ASIC engineer。大家说这个可能吗？

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

13 楼

javascript有一堆函数，作为用户端语言还是好的。

【在 c*******o 的大作中提到】

: 本人毫无经验，谢谢
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

14 楼

JavaScript is a messy language. We use it because there is no other choices.

【在 p*********t 的大作中提到】

: javascript有一堆函数，作为用户端语言还是好的。

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

15 楼

别说，microsoft还挺重视javascript的。

choices.

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: JavaScript is a messy language. We use it because there is no other choices.

r*y2011-01-03 08:01

16 楼

最新第六版一点也不outdated吧

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: You probably want to learn JS not just for the language itself
: but its usage inside the web browser. In this case JavaScript:
: The Definitive Guide is a good one for beginners albeit a little
: bit outdated. Most stuff still applies though and you probably
: want backwards compatibility to old browsers anyway.

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

17 楼

已经出第六版了啊？这个我就没有跟了。如果是比较近出的话我相信都更新了的。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 最新第六版一点也不outdated吧

a*w2011-01-03 08:01

18 楼

出了一年多了。

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: 已经出第六版了啊？这个我就没有跟了。如果是比较近出的话我相信都更新了的。

N*n2011-01-03 08:01

19 楼

Don't waste time learning that junk unless absolutely having to.

【在 c*******o 的大作中提到】

: 本人毫无经验，谢谢
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

20 楼

现在这么火的东西就算是junk学习一下也无妨，就当批判了：）

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Don't waste time learning that junk unless absolutely having to.

N*n2011-01-03 08:01

21 楼

Learning Javascript now is like jumping onto the housing bubble right
at the 2006 high only to get burnt later on.
Javascript is not even a strongly-typed, which is basically a death
penalty for any PL trying to be a serious engineering language.
In fact its type system is so screwed up it makes C's type system look
like art. That's how poor that joker is. Don't waste your time.

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: 现在这么火的东西就算是junk学习一下也无妨，就当批判了：）

a*w2011-01-03 08:01

22 楼

但是浏览器端只有这么一种语言可用。
我希望有一天浏览器里可以嵌入个Java VM或者调用客户电脑里的VM，
这样就爽了。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Learning Javascript now is like jumping onto the housing bubble right
: at the 2006 high only to get burnt later on.
: Javascript is not even a strongly-typed, which is basically a death
: penalty for any PL trying to be a serious engineering language.
: In fact its type system is so screwed up it makes C's type system look
: like art. That's how poor that joker is. Don't waste your time.

k*r2011-01-03 08:01

23 楼

you need to refresh your knowledge a bit. 5,6, or 7 years ago JS is kinda a
mess, b/c it was hobbled by many cross-browser compatibility issues, and
very difficult to debug. nowadays however the cross-browser issue is
abstracted away by many mature libs like jquery, while it's core function
based features and expressiveness in general are really shining through for
the next generation of web apps. and debugging is super easy with chrome
developer tool or firebug et al. Mark my words, it will only grow more
popular in the coming years, driven primarily by html5 on the client and
node.js on the server side.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

24 楼

就是因为java在browser里不现实，所以才有的javascript。

【在 a*w 的大作中提到】

: 但是浏览器端只有这么一种语言可用。
: 我希望有一天浏览器里可以嵌入个Java VM或者调用客户电脑里的VM，
: 这样就爽了。

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

25 楼

And also you could write win8 native app in js. Plus so many javascript
based web apps running on ios and android, it is hard to believe that it is
going away anytime soon.

a
for

【在 k***r 的大作中提到】

: you need to refresh your knowledge a bit. 5,6, or 7 years ago JS is kinda a
: mess, b/c it was hobbled by many cross-browser compatibility issues, and
: very difficult to debug. nowadays however the cross-browser issue is
: abstracted away by many mature libs like jquery, while it's core function
: based features and expressiveness in general are really shining through for
: the next generation of web apps. and debugging is super easy with chrome
: developer tool or firebug et al. Mark my words, it will only grow more
: popular in the coming years, driven primarily by html5 on the client and
: node.js on the server side.

c*r2011-01-03 08:01

26 楼

你这不是揭人家伤疤么？做人要厚道。

is

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: And also you could write win8 native app in js. Plus so many javascript
: based web apps running on ios and android, it is hard to believe that it is
: going away anytime soon.
:
: a
: for

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

27 楼

冤枉我了有没有啊？拂拂的意思是javascript是junk language，我也没不同意。我的
意思是就算它是junk，这么多人用，我们就随大流，跟着用贝。

【在 c***r 的大作中提到】

: 你这不是揭人家伤疤么？做人要厚道。
:
: is

N*n2011-01-03 08:01

28 楼

It's HTML having cross-browser issues, and that's fixable. JS has a
fundamentally weak type system that is NOT FIXABLE, which is why
Google is trying to replace it with Dart.
Weak type system => too many runtime errors + poor tooling support =>
low quality code + lame productivity => abandon the ship. Not even
Google could deny it. Neither should you guys stick to it.

【在 k***r 的大作中提到】

N*n2011-01-03 08:01

29 楼

Don't let MSFT's current support of JS fool you. They used to support
Java and then dropped it. They used to support Ruby and then dropped.
They used to support Python then dropped, again.
All you need to know about JS is looking at what Google does. Why are
they trying Dart as JS alternative if JS is good? Remember Google was
JS biggest backer.
It's like buying a stock. You pick one that seems super hot and then
you notice its biggest stock holder is secretly dumping. Do you still
want to own that stock? Better now.

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: And also you could write win8 native app in js. Plus so many javascript
: based web apps running on ios and android, it is hard to believe that it is
: going away anytime soon.
:
: a
: for

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

30 楼

True google is looking other ways, however until something comes up soon,
most people will have to stick with JavaScript.
And I don't know if google alone really matters in this case. It will take
everybody in the game to replace js, namely ms, apple, two of googles
biggest adversaries today.

★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Don't let MSFT's current support of JS fool you. They used to support
: Java and then dropped it. They used to support Ruby and then dropped.
: They used to support Python then dropped, again.
: All you need to know about JS is looking at what Google does. Why are
: they trying Dart as JS alternative if JS is good? Remember Google was
: JS biggest backer.
: It's like buying a stock. You pick one that seems super hot and then
: you notice its biggest stock holder is secretly dumping. Do you still
: want to own that stock? Better now.

c*e2011-01-03 08:01

31 楼

javascript good parts

【在 c*******o 的大作中提到】

: 本人毫无经验，谢谢
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器

Q*g2011-01-03 08:01

32 楼

+1

【在 c*****e 的大作中提到】

: javascript good parts

s*o2011-01-03 08:01

33 楼

I think it's more used as a weapon for somebody to fight against somebody
else (that is, .NET) inside M$

【在 p*********t 的大作中提到】

: 别说，microsoft还挺重视javascript的。
:
: choices.

s*o2011-01-03 08:01

34 楼

haha. 不用这么极端吧。现在做web不用JS的话也没其他选择啊

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

s*m2011-01-03 08:01

35 楼

Javascript入门不难的，Learning Javascript然后再Javascript
The Good Parts就可以了。还有，对于cross-browser support的
细节不想了解的话，用JS的framework就可以了，例如jQuery，YUI，
Dojo用起来都很方便的。

N*n2011-01-03 08:01

36 楼

I know Office team is using .Net 4.5 for the latest Office release.
If Office team adopts .Net that easy then there's no problem.
People used to joke that you never wanna see crappy code unless it's
in your competition's code base, and I think that's the mentality
MSFT and Aapl are on when it comes to JS.
Bottom line: neither company wanna support an open platform at their
own proprietary one's expense so they'd love to see JS being a crap
for now.
A crappy JS makes HTML too lame a platform to challenge Windows or
IOS, which is why both companies pretend to support JS while Google
realizes there's a problem w/ JS and tries to find an alternative.

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: I think it's more used as a weapon for somebody to fight against somebody
: else (that is, .NET) inside M$

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

37 楼

jsp

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: haha. 不用这么极端吧。现在做web不用JS的话也没其他选择啊

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

38 楼

jQuery现在狠流行。就是每个网站的那个大图。不过，大图里面滚动的动画的方式比较
单一，一般是水平滚动，沒有其它的比如用powerpoint做presentation的那么多花样，
什么渐变啊，什么的。觉得jquery还可以继续深入发展。

【在 s****m 的大作中提到】

: Javascript入门不难的，Learning Javascript然后再Javascript
: The Good Parts就可以了。还有，对于cross-browser support的
: 细节不想了解的话，用JS的framework就可以了，例如jQuery，YUI，
: Dojo用起来都很方便的。

s*o2011-01-03 08:01

39 楼

even silverlight and flash are being abandoned, who wants to go back to pick
up jsp again

【在 p*********t 的大作中提到】

: jsp

t*x2011-01-03 08:01

40 楼

MDN的JavaScript文档上手
然后看JavaScript: the good parts和JavaScript patterns
不用看definitive guide，太长了，
然后看很多代码，最好先试试不用现成的库

r*y2011-01-03 08:01

41 楼

没看过上手的MDN，但这几本里头，还是definitive guide新版最全面。

【在 t*******x 的大作中提到】

: MDN的JavaScript文档上手
: 然后看JavaScript: the good parts和JavaScript patterns
: 不用看definitive guide，太长了，
: 然后看很多代码，最好先试试不用现成的库

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

42 楼

javascript是用户端的，jsp是服务器端的，根本没有可比性。

pick

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: even silverlight and flash are being abandoned, who wants to go back to pick
: up jsp again

s*o2011-01-03 08:01

43 楼

thus it's not a viable alternative to JavaScript. And I don't think the
focus will be shifted back to server side any time soon.

【在 p*********t 的大作中提到】

: javascript是用户端的，jsp是服务器端的，根本没有可比性。
:
: pick

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

44 楼

I think the trend is to wrap ajax components in server side scripts.
So that web programming feels like swing programming. You don't write
js, you write plain Java (or other language) and you get rich js
components underlying.
Vaadin is one like that.
BTW, I don't think the focus is ever shifted to client in web programming.
It's getting more ajaxed, yes, but the focus is never on client side.

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: thus it's not a viable alternative to JavaScript. And I don't think the
: focus will be shifted back to server side any time soon.

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

45 楼

对，大家都不想把真正的源代码暴露出来，所以在server side更安全些。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: I think the trend is to wrap ajax components in server side scripts.
: So that web programming feels like swing programming. You don't write
: js, you write plain Java (or other language) and you get rich js
: components underlying.
: Vaadin is one like that.
: BTW, I don't think the focus is ever shifted to client in web programming.
: It's getting more ajaxed, yes, but the focus is never on client side.

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

46 楼

你这个说得……not even wrong

【在 p*********t 的大作中提到】

: 对，大家都不想把真正的源代码暴露出来，所以在server side更安全些。

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

47 楼

There are more and more web apps are being written in JavaScript on the
server side. You can't beat the advantage of using the same language on both
sides, especially for small shops.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

48 楼

As I said, frameworks like Vaadin makes web programming like swing
programing. There's no client side work at all. You write in your
faviorite language and the components have all the js magic.
JS itself is a lousy language and I doubt it will ever become
mainstream on server side.

both

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: There are more and more web apps are being written in JavaScript on the
: server side. You can't beat the advantage of using the same language on both
: sides, especially for small shops.

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

49 楼

Using the same language on both client and server side is overrated.
You don't get all these libraries and frameworks, which is why any
particular language is useful. And the superficial similarity on
both side just hides the fundamental difference between the two.
Furthermore, sooner or later you'll bump into a feature/bug that
you have to implement/fix by using the native language on the other
side. I have personally experienced all these in a product that had
millions of users, and looking back I think we had made the wrong
decision by trying to use the same language on both sides.

both

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: There are more and more web apps are being written in JavaScript on the
: server side. You can't beat the advantage of using the same language on both
: sides, especially for small shops.

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

50 楼

No matter what language, you will bump into weird bugs. I guess JavaScript
being new to the server side, you will run into more problems than others.

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: Using the same language on both client and server side is overrated.
: You don't get all these libraries and frameworks, which is why any
: particular language is useful. And the superficial similarity on
: both side just hides the fundamental difference between the two.
: Furthermore, sooner or later you'll bump into a feature/bug that
: you have to implement/fix by using the native language on the other
: side. I have personally experienced all these in a product that had
: millions of users, and looking back I think we had made the wrong
: decision by trying to use the same language on both sides.
:

N*n2011-01-03 08:01

51 楼

It's not about being new. C# for example is new compared w/ C++ as the
server side language and yet it's a better engineering language from
day 1 when performance is not the #1 concern.
Languages like Javascript make it easy to write bugs b/c of the weak
type system. Such kinda languages are counter productive, which is why
they don't have a shot at being a serious SE language.

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: No matter what language, you will bump into weird bugs. I guess JavaScript
: being new to the server side, you will run into more problems than others.

s*o2011-01-03 08:01

52 楼

true you got to provide data services at a minimum on the server side, and I
personally still prefer to put (almost) all my business logic related stuff
on server side, but I do feel with the help of various js libraries/
frameworks, people are shifting more and more of their work to the client
side.
I don't know Vaadin. Is it a hot one for real world applications? Adobe has
similar product if I remember correctly. Anyway, for this kind of
abstraction and encapsulation, I am always worried about its flexibility and
customizability. In some cases, performance/optimization is also a concern.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

k*r2011-01-03 08:01

53 楼

Actually, it's the DOM-JS interaction that has the most cross-browser issues
. But anyway as I mentioned earlier it can all be easily abstracted away and
not really a concern anymore.
Having a dynamically typed system does not make it inherently bad or good.
Many large and successful open/closed source products have been written
using such languages as Php or even ActionScript (a close sibling of JS).
ActionScript in particular had some of the best tooling available for any
language (it's a pity that it went down the drain with Flash).
If you apply sound SE practices to JS it can be used effectively. There are
many good parts of JS that make it a beautiful language, such as closure,
which is even picked up by C# and (in near future) Java. It's not a
coincidence that many of the best web frameworks use JS heavily in their
presentation tier.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: It's not about being new. C# for example is new compared w/ C++ as the
: server side language and yet it's a better engineering language from
: day 1 when performance is not the #1 concern.
: Languages like Javascript make it easy to write bugs b/c of the weak
: type system. Such kinda languages are counter productive, which is why
: they don't have a shot at being a serious SE language.

a*w2011-01-03 08:01

54 楼

are
any web frameworks don't use JS at all?

【在 k***r 的大作中提到】

: Actually, it's the DOM-JS interaction that has the most cross-browser issues
: . But anyway as I mentioned earlier it can all be easily abstracted away and
: not really a concern anymore.
: Having a dynamically typed system does not make it inherently bad or good.
: Many large and successful open/closed source products have been written
: using such languages as Php or even ActionScript (a close sibling of JS).
: ActionScript in particular had some of the best tooling available for any
: language (it's a pity that it went down the drain with Flash).
: If you apply sound SE practices to JS it can be used effectively. There are
: many good parts of JS that make it a beautiful language, such as closure,

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

55 楼

Well, I think it's a properly implemented framework that shows
the future. Remember VB days. There are limited set of components,
and you can use it to develop enterprise app nonetheless, there're
companies selling components as well. I think this is the most
productive way to do it. A few programmers who are very good at
javascript can work on components, the others can simple build on these
rich components using their favorite language and not worry about
js and the cross-platform compatibility at all.
Sure, customizability takes a hit, so it's not for everyone. But it's
good enough for most enterprise applications. Performance wise, if
you are developing the next facebook, this is probably not the right
choice. Otherwise, it's not an issue.

I
stuff
has
and
concern.

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: true you got to provide data services at a minimum on the server side, and I
: personally still prefer to put (almost) all my business logic related stuff
: on server side, but I do feel with the help of various js libraries/
: frameworks, people are shifting more and more of their work to the client
: side.
: I don't know Vaadin. Is it a hot one for real world applications? Adobe has
: similar product if I remember correctly. Anyway, for this kind of
: abstraction and encapsulation, I am always worried about its flexibility and
: customizability. In some cases, performance/optimization is also a concern.

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

56 楼

I dont think weak typing is the biggest problem of javascript. The biggest
problem with js is people dont learn it, it is so easy to start coding, no
one seems to care to spend time on learning. Even with experienced
programmers, if they dont learn it, they will just apply what they learned
from other languages and apply to javascript, which will fail most of the
time because 1) js is a very different language, 2) there are lots of bad
parts in js.
Weak typing has its advantages too, and i dont see a lot of problems
because of wrong types. People just learn ways to deal with it. Remember in
the old days, assembly language has no idea what a type is.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

57 楼

Probably not, 3rd party libs, community, company backing are just a few of
them. Modern server side coding requires an ecosystem. Either you are M$ or
you need big open source community support to be successful. I don't see js
going there. It's just another scripting language but what makes it better
than Ruby, Python, Php etc.?

in

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: I dont think weak typing is the biggest problem of javascript. The biggest
: problem with js is people dont learn it, it is so easy to start coding, no
: one seems to care to spend time on learning. Even with experienced
: programmers, if they dont learn it, they will just apply what they learned
: from other languages and apply to javascript, which will fail most of the
: time because 1) js is a very different language, 2) there are lots of bad
: parts in js.
: Weak typing has its advantages too, and i dont see a lot of problems
: because of wrong types. People just learn ways to deal with it. Remember in
: the old days, assembly language has no idea what a type is.

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

58 楼

The language itself is no better than others, it's just that there are so
many people who used to work only on the front end, now all of a sudden they
can work on the backend too. I always think that those front end people has
more control/power than the backend people.

or
js

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Probably not, 3rd party libs, community, company backing are just a few of
: them. Modern server side coding requires an ecosystem. Either you are M$ or
: you need big open source community support to be successful. I don't see js
: going there. It's just another scripting language but what makes it better
: than Ruby, Python, Php etc.?
:
: in

r*y2011-01-03 08:01

59 楼

没错。js最大的问题是：有无数写得很差的老代码。

in

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

60 楼

Well, I think many people that do server side programming
are forced to learn js. Not the other way around.

they
has

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: The language itself is no better than others, it's just that there are so
: many people who used to work only on the front end, now all of a sudden they
: can work on the backend too. I always think that those front end people has
: more control/power than the backend people.
:
: or
: js

p*t2011-01-03 08:01

61 楼

really? 怎么我看到的大部分网站，现在都是用的jsp?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Well, I think many people that do server side programming
: are forced to learn js. Not the other way around.
:
: they
: has

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

62 楼

Yes, it's written in java, but you still need to write
some javascript here and there.

【在 p*********t 的大作中提到】

: really? 怎么我看到的大部分网站，现在都是用的jsp?

k*r2011-01-03 08:01

63 楼

I would not compare JS directly to ruby, python or php; and I don't think JS
can/should replace those. Each has its own place and usefulness.
To me the importance of JS can be better appreciated if you were to develop
RIAs (rich internet applications). Several years ago, if you mention RIA
people immediately thought of Flash (and actionscript), then MS tried with
silverlight, and Oracle is now trying with JavaFX (which is basically next
generation of java swing); but with the huge popularity of HTML5 and canvas
, JavaScript has naturally become very important for RIA these days; it also
helps when more and more of the server side logic can be easily accessed
via ajax.

or
js

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

g*g2011-01-03 08:01

64 楼

I was responding to JS on server side, like nodejs stuff.
JS isn't a good language on client side either, but there's no
other option.

JS
develop
canvas
also

【在 k***r 的大作中提到】

: I would not compare JS directly to ruby, python or php; and I don't think JS
: can/should replace those. Each has its own place and usefulness.
: To me the importance of JS can be better appreciated if you were to develop
: RIAs (rich internet applications). Several years ago, if you mention RIA
: people immediately thought of Flash (and actionscript), then MS tried with
: silverlight, and Oracle is now trying with JavaFX (which is basically next
: generation of java swing); but with the huge popularity of HTML5 and canvas
: , JavaScript has naturally become very important for RIA these days; it also
: helps when more and more of the server side logic can be easily accessed
: via ajax.

a*e2011-01-03 08:01

65 楼

Google整个GWT，被自己的Dart搞死了，Dart将来不被自己搞死估计也会被微软或
Mozilla搞死。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: I was responding to JS on server side, like nodejs stuff.
: JS isn't a good language on client side either, but there's no
: other option.
:
: JS
: develop
: canvas
: also

c*y2011-01-03 08:01

66 楼

推荐以下几本：
(1)入门级：
Object-Oriented JavaScript: Create scalable, reusable high-quality
JavaScript applications and libraries
(2)
JavaScript: The Good Parts
网上搜一下Douglas Crockford的Video，高度推荐
(3)
Test-Driven JavaScript Development
掌握基本知识后再去学习流行的frameworks，像JQuery, Ext.js, Dojo etc.

i*s2011-01-03 08:01

67 楼

If people want to do something with C#, Python etc, at least they will spend
a few days to learn it. But I see many guys actually do not know JS think
they can write JS code. Of course they write messy code and said JS is messy
language. Maybe the "Java" part in name is too deceptive

choices.

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: JavaScript is a messy language. We use it because there is no other choices.

i*s2011-01-03 08:01

68 楼

Totally agree.

in

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

i*s2011-01-03 08:01

69 楼

Co-support. Maybe it is the most often referred JS book
Especially I agree with his idea to avoid constructor functions and
prototype, to use functional pattern to create objects instead.
The constructor function pattern just make the JS code somehow looks like
Java, but again JS and Java are very different, it does not make much sense

【在 c*****y 的大作中提到】

: 推荐以下几本：
: (1)入门级：
: Object-Oriented JavaScript: Create scalable, reusable high-quality
: JavaScript applications and libraries
: (2)
: JavaScript: The Good Parts
: 网上搜一下Douglas Crockford的Video，高度推荐
: (3)
: Test-Driven JavaScript Development
: 掌握基本知识后再去学习流行的frameworks，像JQuery, Ext.js, Dojo etc.

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

70 楼

JS is a messy language by itself. Not about DOM and browser. Not
about dynamic types. Just look at the following example:
new Number(1) == 1
new Number(1) != new Number(1)
I can give you more examples like this that you need to check ecma 262
to know the answer for sure. That's my definition of a messy language.

spend
messy

【在 i**s 的大作中提到】

: If people want to do something with C#, Python etc, at least they will spend
: a few days to learn it. But I see many guys actually do not know JS think
: they can write JS code. Of course they write messy code and said JS is messy
: language. Maybe the "Java" part in name is too deceptive
:
: choices.

i*o2011-01-03 08:01

71 楼

这个读一下spec就不难理解。只能说这个对java或c programmer来说是culture shock
，定义不同而已。

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: JS is a messy language by itself. Not about DOM and browser. Not
: about dynamic types. Just look at the following example:
: new Number(1) == 1
: new Number(1) != new Number(1)
: I can give you more examples like this that you need to check ecma 262
: to know the answer for sure. That's my definition of a messy language.
:
: spend
: messy

X*r2011-01-03 08:01

72 楼

Of course I know the spec and the rationale behind it. The point
is that this definition of '==' is counter-intuitive, and had to
be memorized by the programmer instead of simply being understood.
All these things are why the language is messy and part of why it
is less productive unless the team is highly disciplined.

shock

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】

: 这个读一下spec就不难理解。只能说这个对java或c programmer来说是culture shock
: ，定义不同而已。

r*y2011-01-03 08:01

73 楼

完全不用==和!=，只用===和!==就可以了。Good parts说得很清楚。
js里设计错误的地方颇有几个，但是可以躲开。

【在 X****r 的大作中提到】

: Of course I know the spec and the rationale behind it. The point
: is that this definition of '==' is counter-intuitive, and had to
: be memorized by the programmer instead of simply being understood.
: All these things are why the language is messy and part of why it
: is less productive unless the team is highly disciplined.
:
: shock

i*s2011-01-03 08:01

74 楼

yes the "==" is a bad part. and there are quite several more. but they can
be easily avoided. the programmer from other world without learning JS do
not know "===" at all. let's the biggest problem

s*o2011-01-03 08:01

75 楼

"The key to being a good JavaScript programmer is being able to laugh at,
and understand the significance of, this image."

r*y2011-01-03 08:01

76 楼

还是得先读过再笑。厚的那本相当不错。

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: "The key to being a good JavaScript programmer is being able to laugh at,
: and understand the significance of, this image."