w*n
2 楼
no news. but I think they are still moving forward. Some features
and patterns in cocoon and strut is really cool.
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
: 这个Java感觉冷下来了似的...
and patterns in cocoon and strut is really cool.
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
: 这个Java感觉冷下来了似的...
a*n
3 楼
说sun要破产的, 到底破了没啊? 现在我java也是荒废着没怎么下工夫啊...
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: no news. but I think they are still moving forward. Some features
: and patterns in cocoon and strut is really cool.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: no news. but I think they are still moving forward. Some features
: and patterns in cocoon and strut is really cool.
e*g
4 楼
those are not from Sun.
Sun is contributing to java community a lot, I respect that.
(but they just cannot make any money from it:)
this year JDK1.5 and many important JSRs.
if Sun is dead, it could even be a good thing for java community.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: no news. but I think they are still moving forward. Some features
: and patterns in cocoon and strut is really cool.
xt
5 楼
Maybe, but I do not like IBM java stuffs. Their JDK sucks!
It is just too buggy.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
:
: those are not from Sun.
: Sun is contributing to java community a lot, I respect that.
: (but they just cannot make any money from it:)
: this year JDK1.5 and many important JSRs.
: if Sun is dead, it could even be a good thing for java community.
w*c
6 楼
又来了又来了，一提到IBM的jdk你又来劲了。:)
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Maybe, but I do not like IBM java stuffs. Their JDK sucks!
: It is just too buggy.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Maybe, but I do not like IBM java stuffs. Their JDK sucks!
: It is just too buggy.
xt
7 楼
希望你不是在IBM. hehe
不过IBM的编译技术吹牛成分太多了点.连个简单的
boolean expression都摆不平.
【在 w********c 的大作中提到】
: 又来了又来了，一提到IBM的jdk你又来劲了。:)
a*n
8 楼
why you hate Sun so much?
It seems Sun's Java is free? it make no money from it...
Then how Sun survive? by selling Sun Workstation? Server? Service?:)
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
:
: those are not from Sun.
: Sun is contributing to java community a lot, I respect that.
: (but they just cannot make any money from it:)
: this year JDK1.5 and many important JSRs.
: if Sun is dead, it could even be a good thing for java community.
e*g
9 楼
i don't hate Sun, i respect it. but there are indeed lots of people
in java community who hate Sun, because they think
Sun still controls Java too tight, and Sun is too slow in improving java.
they believe if java is freed from Sun and becomes more democratic than JCP,
java will be better off. I myself don't buy that entirely.
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
:
: why you hate Sun so much?
: It seems Sun's Java is free? it make no money from it...
: Then how Sun survive? by selling Sun Workstation? Server? Service?:)
in java community who hate Sun, because they think
Sun still controls Java too tight, and Sun is too slow in improving java.
they believe if java is freed from Sun and becomes more democratic than JCP,
java will be better off. I myself don't buy that entirely.
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
:
: why you hate Sun so much?
: It seems Sun's Java is free? it make no money from it...
: Then how Sun survive? by selling Sun Workstation? Server? Service?:)
w*n
10 楼
SUN should be fine in the nearly ten years. I just don't understand
why they don't utilize their advantage on Java to promote its application
server and leave BEA/IBM the huge market. Maybe they focus too much on
their hardware.
Whatever, Java should survive for a long time. MS is super strong, but
not sure if MS could compete with java programmers in the world.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: i don't hate Sun, i respect it. but there are indeed lots of people
: in java community who hate Sun, because they think
: Sun still controls Java too tight, and Sun is too slow in improving java.
: they believe if java is freed from Sun and becomes more democratic than JCP,
: java will be better off. I myself don't buy that entirely.
why they don't utilize their advantage on Java to promote its application
server and leave BEA/IBM the huge market. Maybe they focus too much on
their hardware.
Whatever, Java should survive for a long time. MS is super strong, but
not sure if MS could compete with java programmers in the world.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: i don't hate Sun, i respect it. but there are indeed lots of people
: in java community who hate Sun, because they think
: Sun still controls Java too tight, and Sun is too slow in improving java.
: they believe if java is freed from Sun and becomes more democratic than JCP,
: java will be better off. I myself don't buy that entirely.
w*n
11 楼
SUN is very cautious on new features. I think this is good attitude.
Any stupid error could ruin java's reputation in commercial world.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: i don't hate Sun, i respect it. but there are indeed lots of people
: in java community who hate Sun, because they think
: Sun still controls Java too tight, and Sun is too slow in improving java.
: they believe if java is freed from Sun and becomes more democratic than JCP,
: java will be better off. I myself don't buy that entirely.
Any stupid error could ruin java's reputation in commercial world.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: i don't hate Sun, i respect it. but there are indeed lots of people
: in java community who hate Sun, because they think
: Sun still controls Java too tight, and Sun is too slow in improving java.
: they believe if java is freed from Sun and becomes more democratic than JCP,
: java will be better off. I myself don't buy that entirely.
e*g
12 楼
they say there are two forces in Sun, church and state.
state are those people who are money oriented, church
are those people who are more idealistic. church had
been dominating for a long time.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: SUN should be fine in the nearly ten years. I just don't understand
: why they don't utilize their advantage on Java to promote its application
: server and leave BEA/IBM the huge market. Maybe they focus too much on
: their hardware.
: Whatever, Java should survive for a long time. MS is super strong, but
: not sure if MS could compete with java programmers in the world.
state are those people who are money oriented, church
are those people who are more idealistic. church had
been dominating for a long time.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: SUN should be fine in the nearly ten years. I just don't understand
: why they don't utilize their advantage on Java to promote its application
: server and leave BEA/IBM the huge market. Maybe they focus too much on
: their hardware.
: Whatever, Java should survive for a long time. MS is super strong, but
: not sure if MS could compete with java programmers in the world.
r*a
13 楼
这个基本上是你自己的错，IBM基本上不可能出现如此弱智的低级技术问题
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 希望你不是在IBM. hehe
: 不过IBM的编译技术吹牛成分太多了点.连个简单的
: boolean expression都摆不平.
a*n
14 楼
Sun有啥独特的hardware? 能争得过Intl/IBM吗？
他们的Research在干吗？
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: SUN should be fine in the nearly ten years. I just don't understand
: why they don't utilize their advantage on Java to promote its application
: server and leave BEA/IBM the huge market. Maybe they focus too much on
: their hardware.
: Whatever, Java should survive for a long time. MS is super strong, but
: not sure if MS could compete with java programmers in the world.
w*n
15 楼
You know why SUN is so dominating back to Internet Boom. The reason
is that IBM/HP/SGI blah blah dared to compete with WINTEL system.
SUN is the only vendor who speak out to support UNIX system.
SUN 10K is a great product, though it is not advanced right now. I
don't know how they deal with the current situation. But I never doubt
SUN own some real genius.
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
:
: Sun有啥独特的hardware? 能争得过Intl/IBM吗？
: 他们的Research在干吗？
is that IBM/HP/SGI blah blah dared to compete with WINTEL system.
SUN is the only vendor who speak out to support UNIX system.
SUN 10K is a great product, though it is not advanced right now. I
don't know how they deal with the current situation. But I never doubt
SUN own some real genius.
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
:
: Sun有啥独特的hardware? 能争得过Intl/IBM吗？
: 他们的Research在干吗？
a*l
16 楼
heard it's pretty cool, concurrent,generic stuff.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: they say there are two forces in Sun, church and state.
: state are those people who are money oriented, church
: are those people who are more idealistic. church had
: been dominating for a long time.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: they say there are two forces in Sun, church and state.
: state are those people who are money oriented, church
: are those people who are more idealistic. church had
: been dominating for a long time.
c*r
17 楼
1.5b1
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
: 这个Java感觉冷下来了似的...
【在 a***n 的大作中提到】
: 这个Java感觉冷下来了似的...
xt
18 楼
Unfortunately this cautiousness translates into little advance. IBM is
always very bold in introduction of new features, buggy or not. They
make good money out of it. :-)
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: SUN is very cautious on new features. I think this is good attitude.
: Any stupid error could ruin java's reputation in commercial world.
xt
19 楼
我自己的程序里面出现的.是我自己用debugger trace进去才发现:
if( !someComplicatedBooleanMethod() ) {
dosth();
}
那个method返回true, 结果它居然进到if()里面去了.最后我不得不
if( !(someComplicatedBooleanMethod() )
可见他们连最起码的运算顺序都没有弄干净.
【在 r**a 的大作中提到】
:
: 这个基本上是你自己的错，IBM基本上不可能出现如此弱智的低级技术问题
m*t
20 楼
You think they didn't try and are not still trying? 8-)
Sun's app server and Oracle's app server are two good examples of
people doing one thing well doesn't necessarily mean they can do anything
well.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: SUN should be fine in the nearly ten years. I just don't understand
: why they don't utilize their advantage on Java to promote its application
: server and leave BEA/IBM the huge market. Maybe they focus too much on
: their hardware.
: Whatever, Java should survive for a long time. MS is super strong, but
: not sure if MS could compete with java programmers in the world.
w*n
21 楼
I see. They tried. But don't you think they react very slowly to the app server
market. If my memory is correct, long after BEA has its product, SUN begin to
promote its iPlanet.
Oracle sucks. Some years ago, they implemented their app server using store
procedure. kinda of ridiculous. Never tried oracle app sever after that.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: You think they didn't try and are not still trying? 8-)
: Sun's app server and Oracle's app server are two good examples of
: people doing one thing well doesn't necessarily mean they can do anything
: well.
w*n
22 楼
Just like a kid of ten years old, java should be taken care. Even now,
the noise is everywhere, "Java is doomed, since .Net or MS will kick its
ass." I just feel frustrated that Swing is not in good shape.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 我自己的程序里面出现的.是我自己用debugger trace进去才发现:
: if( !someComplicatedBooleanMethod() ) {
: dosth();
: }
: 那个method返回true, 结果它居然进到if()里面去了.最后我不得不
: if( !(someComplicatedBooleanMethod() )
: 可见他们连最起码的运算顺序都没有弄干净.
the noise is everywhere, "Java is doomed, since .Net or MS will kick its
ass." I just feel frustrated that Swing is not in good shape.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 我自己的程序里面出现的.是我自己用debugger trace进去才发现:
: if( !someComplicatedBooleanMethod() ) {
: dosth();
: }
: 那个method返回true, 结果它居然进到if()里面去了.最后我不得不
: if( !(someComplicatedBooleanMethod() )
: 可见他们连最起码的运算顺序都没有弄干净.
xt
23 楼
Swing is good enough to build simple GUI. You can try Sybase Central.
I wouldn't say it is good enough to write an MS Office. :-)
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: Just like a kid of ten years old, java should be taken care. Even now,
: the noise is everywhere, "Java is doomed, since .Net or MS will kick its
: ass." I just feel frustrated that Swing is not in good shape.
w*n
24 楼
I worked on Swing for quite a while and was frustrated by its
performance and unexpected behavior. I think I may do something
wrong, for example I failed to control the swing events or threads.
But the learning curve to be a good Swing programmer seems too
long.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Swing is good enough to build simple GUI. You can try Sybase Central.
: I wouldn't say it is good enough to write an MS Office. :-)
performance and unexpected behavior. I think I may do something
wrong, for example I failed to control the swing events or threads.
But the learning curve to be a good Swing programmer seems too
long.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Swing is good enough to build simple GUI. You can try Sybase Central.
: I wouldn't say it is good enough to write an MS Office. :-)
xt
25 楼
I have written a few GUI using swing. It does have problems, but I
haven't met such. Maybe that's because Sybase Central viewer handles
a lot of them for me. I just write my GUI's as plug-in's.
If you have a licensed Sybase Central you might want to make full
use if it. It really comes handy.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: I worked on Swing for quite a while and was frustrated by its
: performance and unexpected behavior. I think I may do something
: wrong, for example I failed to control the swing events or threads.
: But the learning curve to be a good Swing programmer seems too
: long.
m*t
26 楼
I have played around with SWT recently and think it has lots of potential
- if they can stop messing with the API, that is.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: I have written a few GUI using swing. It does have problems, but I
: haven't met such. Maybe that's because Sybase Central viewer handles
: a lot of them for me. I just write my GUI's as plug-in's.
: If you have a licensed Sybase Central you might want to make full
: use if it. It really comes handy.
F*n
27 楼
如果不画地图, CAD之类的东西的话,
实在想不出有什么理由SWING会让人觉得慢
即使有些慢也不会到有感觉的程度.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: I worked on Swing for quite a while and was frustrated by its
: performance and unexpected behavior. I think I may do something
: wrong, for example I failed to control the swing events or threads.
: But the learning curve to be a good Swing programmer seems too
: long.
实在想不出有什么理由SWING会让人觉得慢
即使有些慢也不会到有感觉的程度.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: I worked on Swing for quite a while and was frustrated by its
: performance and unexpected behavior. I think I may do something
: wrong, for example I failed to control the swing events or threads.
: But the learning curve to be a good Swing programmer seems too
: long.
F*n
28 楼
Personally, I think SWT is a waste of time and money to mislead people. If SWT
stands, why not JWC (Does anybody still remember this shit?). Swing's problem
should be solved at the implementation level.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: I have played around with SWT recently and think it has lots of potential
: - if they can stop messing with the API, that is.
stands, why not JWC (Does anybody still remember this shit?). Swing's problem
should be solved at the implementation level.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: I have played around with SWT recently and think it has lots of potential
: - if they can stop messing with the API, that is.
m*t
29 楼
Uh, because JWC is Windows only?
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: Personally, I think SWT is a waste of time and money to mislead people. If SWT
: stands, why not JWC (Does anybody still remember this shit?). Swing's problem
: should be solved at the implementation level.
w*n
30 楼
When you move or click in swing application, it is kinda of
dumb, compared to windows program. The UI interface is not
very consistency, especially when you switch among different
style. Swing is usable, but not comfortable.
Indeed, there are some excellent swing application. But I guess
there are some swing guru behind that. And Swing dispatchs
way too much events out.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 如果不画地图, CAD之类的东西的话,
: 实在想不出有什么理由SWING会让人觉得慢
: 即使有些慢也不会到有感觉的程度.
dumb, compared to windows program. The UI interface is not
very consistency, especially when you switch among different
style. Swing is usable, but not comfortable.
Indeed, there are some excellent swing application. But I guess
there are some swing guru behind that. And Swing dispatchs
way too much events out.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 如果不画地图, CAD之类的东西的话,
: 实在想不出有什么理由SWING会让人觉得慢
: 即使有些慢也不会到有感觉的程度.
e*g
31 楼
looks like a political move of IBM, to fragment java.
i really hate that.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: Personally, I think SWT is a waste of time and money to mislead people. If SWT
: stands, why not JWC (Does anybody still remember this shit?). Swing's problem
: should be solved at the implementation level.
i really hate that.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: Personally, I think SWT is a waste of time and money to mislead people. If SWT
: stands, why not JWC (Does anybody still remember this shit?). Swing's problem
: should be solved at the implementation level.
e*g
32 楼
at least on recent new PCs, I don't feel the difference.
swing application is very usable now. the thing is most
java people are doing server/html. if I'm a client GUI guy,
I will probably go with Windows stuff too. lack of interest
and developers for swing in java circle is the problem,
swing itself is a pretty good framework (with very ugly
default look&feel... ah!)
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: When you move or click in swing application, it is kinda of
: dumb, compared to windows program. The UI interface is not
: very consistency, especially when you switch among different
: style. Swing is usable, but not comfortable.
: Indeed, there are some excellent swing application. But I guess
: there are some swing guru behind that. And Swing dispatchs
: way too much events out.
swing application is very usable now. the thing is most
java people are doing server/html. if I'm a client GUI guy,
I will probably go with Windows stuff too. lack of interest
and developers for swing in java circle is the problem,
swing itself is a pretty good framework (with very ugly
default look&feel... ah!)
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: When you move or click in swing application, it is kinda of
: dumb, compared to windows program. The UI interface is not
: very consistency, especially when you switch among different
: style. Swing is usable, but not comfortable.
: Indeed, there are some excellent swing application. But I guess
: there are some swing guru behind that. And Swing dispatchs
: way too much events out.
xt
33 楼
This is your fault. I usually write very nice looking
swing GUI's. heihei
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: When you move or click in swing application, it is kinda of
: dumb, compared to windows program. The UI interface is not
: very consistency, especially when you switch among different
: style. Swing is usable, but not comfortable.
: Indeed, there are some excellent swing application. But I guess
: there are some swing guru behind that. And Swing dispatchs
: way too much events out.
w*n
34 楼
ft. If you don't feel offended and don't violate your company's rule,
send me the code. Let me review it. :-)
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: This is your fault. I usually write very nice looking
: swing GUI's. heihei
send me the code. Let me review it. :-)
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: This is your fault. I usually write very nice looking
: swing GUI's. heihei
m*t
35 楼
It might be true from IBM's perspective, but the key is that the entire
Eclipse
platform is open sourced.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: looks like a political move of IBM, to fragment java.
: i really hate that.
xt
36 楼
Can't do. It takes hundreds of files to make it work. If you are
writing a typical administration console, I recommend Sybase Central
viewer. In this case I can tell you how to right a plug-in. :-)
Sybase central takes care of a lot of things. You don't have to write
your own frames. You don't have to figure out how to make a context menu.
You don't have to figure how to make a nice looking tree view with all
those icons. You don't have to worry about the OK/Apply/Cancel buttons
too much. All y
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: ft. If you don't feel offended and don't violate your company's rule,
: send me the code. Let me review it. :-)
e*g
37 楼
that's not very striking in the context of java. Sun's stuff are
basically all very open and free. the only conflict was Sun vs. MS,
otherwise you can change java platform any way you like (including SWT!)
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: It might be true from IBM's perspective, but the key is that the entire
: Eclipse
: platform is open sourced.
basically all very open and free. the only conflict was Sun vs. MS,
otherwise you can change java platform any way you like (including SWT!)
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: It might be true from IBM's perspective, but the key is that the entire
: Eclipse
: platform is open sourced.
B*N
38 楼
Java的缺点在于Sun不够牛比，当然是跟MS相比。所以它不能，把java jdk做的很好。bug
很多。最终要的是它没能力控制主IDE的开发，倒置IDE市场一片混乱。都说自己的好，其
实没一个好的。跟MS Visual studio .net相比，所有的java
ide都是crap。倒至developer疲于适应各种crap。
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: that's not very striking in the context of java. Sun's stuff are
: basically all very open and free. the only conflict was Sun vs. MS,
: otherwise you can change java platform any way you like (including SWT!)
很多。最终要的是它没能力控制主IDE的开发，倒置IDE市场一片混乱。都说自己的好，其
实没一个好的。跟MS Visual studio .net相比，所有的java
ide都是crap。倒至developer疲于适应各种crap。
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: that's not very striking in the context of java. Sun's stuff are
: basically all very open and free. the only conflict was Sun vs. MS,
: otherwise you can change java platform any way you like (including SWT!)
B*N
39 楼
那你能告诉我如何实现一个modal的dialog在MDI program中？
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Can't do. It takes hundreds of files to make it work. If you are
: writing a typical administration console, I recommend Sybase Central
: viewer. In this case I can tell you how to right a plug-in. :-)
: Sybase central takes care of a lot of things. You don't have to write
: your own frames. You don't have to figure out how to make a context menu.
: You don't have to figure how to make a nice looking tree view with all
: those icons. You don't have to worry about the OK/Apply/Cancel buttons
: too much. All y
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Can't do. It takes hundreds of files to make it work. If you are
: writing a typical administration console, I recommend Sybase Central
: viewer. In this case I can tell you how to right a plug-in. :-)
: Sybase central takes care of a lot of things. You don't have to write
: your own frames. You don't have to figure out how to make a context menu.
: You don't have to figure how to make a nice looking tree view with all
: those icons. You don't have to worry about the OK/Apply/Cancel buttons
: too much. All y
xt
40 楼
What is MDI?
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 那你能告诉我如何实现一个modal的dialog在MDI program中？
m*t
41 楼
ft, you are kidding, right?
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: What is MDI?
F*n
42 楼
Visual Studio 在可视编程方面的确比其他IDE先进许多, 高好几个档次
但那是GUI设计的水平问题而非语言.
JAVA好象确实无法实现WINDOWS那样的MDI. 但那种程序估计也只有在WINDOWS上实现
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: ft, you are kidding, right?
但那是GUI设计的水平问题而非语言.
JAVA好象确实无法实现WINDOWS那样的MDI. 但那种程序估计也只有在WINDOWS上实现
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: ft, you are kidding, right?
xt
43 楼
Multi-document interface? The problem is I do not know
what it means.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: ft, you are kidding, right?
F*n
44 楼
MS OFFICE
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Multi-document interface? The problem is I do not know
: what it means.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Multi-document interface? The problem is I do not know
: what it means.
xt
45 楼
As I said before, swing is not a good choice to do such
a complicated interface.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: MS OFFICE
F*n
46 楼
拿Swing也能整个差不多的出来, 就是没有MFC的好看. 但MFC的到LINUX就不能用乐.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: As I said before, swing is not a good choice to do such
: a complicated interface.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: As I said before, swing is not a good choice to do such
: a complicated interface.
m*t
47 楼
netbeans has an MDI mode.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: Visual Studio 在可视编程方面的确比其他IDE先进许多, 高好几个档次
: 但那是GUI设计的水平问题而非语言.
: JAVA好象确实无法实现WINDOWS那样的MDI. 但那种程序估计也只有在WINDOWS上实现
xt
48 楼
能整出来.就是写起来非常麻烦,而且performance也是问题.如果你
想再弄点ActiveX之类的上去就更麻烦了.但是前面所提出的modal
问题不是个难题.问题是要把整个程序的结构搞清楚.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 拿Swing也能整个差不多的出来, 就是没有MFC的好看. 但MFC的到LINUX就不能用乐.
F*n
49 楼
MDI大家都可以搞一个, 但要搞的跟MFC一样的好象没有.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: netbeans has an MDI mode.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
:
: netbeans has an MDI mode.
F*n
50 楼
这跟语言无关, 是GUI设计的水平问题
以前设计MFC和VISUAL STUDIO那帮人的水平的确很高
俺5年前一直用VC6, 现在为止没有一个JAVA IDE能达到VC6的水准
JBUILDER已经算好的那, 还是没法比, 差几个档次.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 能整出来.就是写起来非常麻烦,而且performance也是问题.如果你
: 想再弄点ActiveX之类的上去就更麻烦了.但是前面所提出的modal
: 问题不是个难题.问题是要把整个程序的结构搞清楚.
以前设计MFC和VISUAL STUDIO那帮人的水平的确很高
俺5年前一直用VC6, 现在为止没有一个JAVA IDE能达到VC6的水准
JBUILDER已经算好的那, 还是没法比, 差几个档次.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 能整出来.就是写起来非常麻烦,而且performance也是问题.如果你
: 想再弄点ActiveX之类的上去就更麻烦了.但是前面所提出的modal
: 问题不是个难题.问题是要把整个程序的结构搞清楚.
e*g
51 楼
isn't there a post not far above, talking about a java Office tool.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: MS OFFICE
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: MS OFFICE
e*g
52 楼
I myself am happy with java, with its language, its JDK,
its runtime, its tools(including IDE), its libraries,
and most of all, its community. but I may be just ignorant.
its runtime, its tools(including IDE), its libraries,
and most of all, its community. but I may be just ignorant.
e*g
53 楼
tried IntelliJ? it's not just another IDE, and I'm not going
to be polite on this: you must try it.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这跟语言无关, 是GUI设计的水平问题
: 以前设计MFC和VISUAL STUDIO那帮人的水平的确很高
: 俺5年前一直用VC6, 现在为止没有一个JAVA IDE能达到VC6的水准
: JBUILDER已经算好的那, 还是没法比, 差几个档次.
to be polite on this: you must try it.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这跟语言无关, 是GUI设计的水平问题
: 以前设计MFC和VISUAL STUDIO那帮人的水平的确很高
: 俺5年前一直用VC6, 现在为止没有一个JAVA IDE能达到VC6的水准
: JBUILDER已经算好的那, 还是没法比, 差几个档次.
B*N
54 楼
要想键盘，鼠标，快捷键都支持很好还是有点难度的。
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 能整出来.就是写起来非常麻烦,而且performance也是问题.如果你
: 想再弄点ActiveX之类的上去就更麻烦了.但是前面所提出的modal
: 问题不是个难题.问题是要把整个程序的结构搞清楚.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 能整出来.就是写起来非常麻烦,而且performance也是问题.如果你
: 想再弄点ActiveX之类的上去就更麻烦了.但是前面所提出的modal
: 问题不是个难题.问题是要把整个程序的结构搞清楚.
F*n
55 楼
IDEA vs VStudio? No contest at all.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: tried IntelliJ? it's not just another IDE, and I'm not going
: to be polite on this: you must try it.
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: tried IntelliJ? it's not just another IDE, and I'm not going
: to be polite on this: you must try it.
e*g
56 楼
which part of Studio you think is superior? I don't know I'm just asking.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: IDEA vs VStudio? No contest at all.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: IDEA vs VStudio? No contest at all.
xt
57 楼
想不想看看Sybase Central长什么样? hehe
当然Sybase Central是专门有那么两三个人开发的.我只
需要在写plug-in的时候注意一点就可以实现很多功能,
比如shortcut.
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 要想键盘，鼠标，快捷键都支持很好还是有点难度的。
F*n
58 楼
前面说了, VISUAL PROGRAMMING, IDEA有很多不错的东西都是JAVA的功能
而VS也有很多WINDOWS才有的功能, 这些没啥好比的.
我觉得象这种东西想起来容易, 要做好还是一个技术含量相当高的东西
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: which part of Studio you think is superior? I don't know I'm just asking.
而VS也有很多WINDOWS才有的功能, 这些没啥好比的.
我觉得象这种东西想起来容易, 要做好还是一个技术含量相当高的东西
【在 e***g 的大作中提到】
: which part of Studio you think is superior? I don't know I'm just asking.
w*n
59 楼
Where could I download a trial version? I cannot find it. .
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 想不想看看Sybase Central长什么样? hehe
: 当然Sybase Central是专门有那么两三个人开发的.我只
: 需要在写plug-in的时候注意一点就可以实现很多功能,
: 比如shortcut.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: 想不想看看Sybase Central长什么样? hehe
: 当然Sybase Central是专门有那么两三个人开发的.我只
: 需要在写plug-in的时候注意一点就可以实现很多功能,
: 比如shortcut.
w*n
60 楼
I don't know how a programmer stuck to IDE. Visual Studio
is a great product. But I don't think that improves productivity
that much.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这跟语言无关, 是GUI设计的水平问题
: 以前设计MFC和VISUAL STUDIO那帮人的水平的确很高
: 俺5年前一直用VC6, 现在为止没有一个JAVA IDE能达到VC6的水准
: JBUILDER已经算好的那, 还是没法比, 差几个档次.
is a great product. But I don't think that improves productivity
that much.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这跟语言无关, 是GUI设计的水平问题
: 以前设计MFC和VISUAL STUDIO那帮人的水平的确很高
: 俺5年前一直用VC6, 现在为止没有一个JAVA IDE能达到VC6的水准
: JBUILDER已经算好的那, 还是没法比, 差几个档次.
F*n
61 楼
From one develper's view, maybe not, from all develpers' views
VS improve productiviy much and more. Just imagine the capabilities VS offers
to novices and nonexpert developers who do not need to know the complete
implementation but only want to do their relevant parts.
A little bit like how Mac revoluted OS.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: I don't know how a programmer stuck to IDE. Visual Studio
: is a great product. But I don't think that improves productivity
: that much.
VS improve productiviy much and more. Just imagine the capabilities VS offers
to novices and nonexpert developers who do not need to know the complete
implementation but only want to do their relevant parts.
A little bit like how Mac revoluted OS.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: I don't know how a programmer stuck to IDE. Visual Studio
: is a great product. But I don't think that improves productivity
: that much.
xt
62 楼
It does not have trial version. It comes with Sybase
database products, and is not sold separately.
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: Where could I download a trial version? I cannot find it. .
c*g
63 楼
Sybase Central sucks, both win and swing versions, especially
win version, which is so primitive that it does not look like a
window application at all.
Both interface and document of sybase software are terrible.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: It does not have trial version. It comes with Sybase
: database products, and is not sold separately.
win version, which is so primitive that it does not look like a
window application at all.
Both interface and document of sybase software are terrible.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: It does not have trial version. It comes with Sybase
: database products, and is not sold separately.
c*g
64 楼
swing is slow,Netbeas(swing based?, not sure) is damn slow compared
native windows application.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 如果不画地图, CAD之类的东西的话,
: 实在想不出有什么理由SWING会让人觉得慢
: 即使有些慢也不会到有感觉的程度.
native windows application.
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 如果不画地图, CAD之类的东西的话,
: 实在想不出有什么理由SWING会让人觉得慢
: 即使有些慢也不会到有感觉的程度.
w*g
65 楼
especially in mobile device
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: swing is slow,Netbeas(swing based?, not sure) is damn slow compared
: native windows application.
xt
66 楼
If you want horrible interface, look at Oracle and IBM. :-)
The windows C++ version is already sunset. I believe that was up to
version 3.2. The SC version 4+ are very different from earlier
versions, at least from a programmer's point of view. Also, SC is
only a viewer. If you want to build your own GUI, you need to write
a plug-in. So the quality of GUI really depends on how good the
plug-in is.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: Sybase Central sucks, both win and swing versions, especially
: win version, which is so primitive that it does not look like a
: window application at all.
: Both interface and document of sybase software are terrible.
F*n
67 楼
这是免费软件的质量问题
不能全怪SWING
JBUILDER就没那么慢.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: swing is slow,Netbeas(swing based?, not sure) is damn slow compared
: native windows application.
不能全怪SWING
JBUILDER就没那么慢.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: swing is slow,Netbeas(swing based?, not sure) is damn slow compared
: native windows application.
B*N
68 楼
建议试一下永中Office， developed by Wuxi company，是我见到最好的swing program
，比jbuilder应该好挺多。
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这是免费软件的质量问题
: 不能全怪SWING
: JBUILDER就没那么慢.
，比jbuilder应该好挺多。
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这是免费软件的质量问题
: 不能全怪SWING
: JBUILDER就没那么慢.
c*g
69 楼
老兄是个托吧,这永中听起来应该是个字处理软件,和netbean, jbuilder是哪跟哪啊,
我再牛也不能拿ms word编java程序玩儿吧.
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 建议试一下永中Office， developed by Wuxi company，是我见到最好的swing program
: ，比jbuilder应该好挺多。
我再牛也不能拿ms word编java程序玩儿吧.
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 建议试一下永中Office， developed by Wuxi company，是我见到最好的swing program
: ，比jbuilder应该好挺多。
c*g
70 楼
The one I am using is 3.2, I guess what I am talking about is
the database management plug-in written by sybase, which is
pretty primitive. I am going to use dbartisan.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: If you want horrible interface, look at Oracle and IBM. :-)
: The windows C++ version is already sunset. I believe that was up to
: version 3.2. The SC version 4+ are very different from earlier
: versions, at least from a programmer's point of view. Also, SC is
: only a viewer. If you want to build your own GUI, you need to write
: a plug-in. So the quality of GUI really depends on how good the
: plug-in is.
the database management plug-in written by sybase, which is
pretty primitive. I am going to use dbartisan.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: If you want horrible interface, look at Oracle and IBM. :-)
: The windows C++ version is already sunset. I believe that was up to
: version 3.2. The SC version 4+ are very different from earlier
: versions, at least from a programmer's point of view. Also, SC is
: only a viewer. If you want to build your own GUI, you need to write
: a plug-in. So the quality of GUI really depends on how good the
: plug-in is.
c*g
71 楼
Talking about server side java, I think javaserver faces sounds
very good, if it successes, web interface would be much easier.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: The one I am using is 3.2, I guess what I am talking about is
: the database management plug-in written by sybase, which is
: pretty primitive. I am going to use dbartisan.
very good, if it successes, web interface would be much easier.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: The one I am using is 3.2, I guess what I am talking about is
: the database management plug-in written by sybase, which is
: pretty primitive. I am going to use dbartisan.
xt
72 楼
Is that the SC for ASE? I never used it, but I don't think
people in California do good GUI any way. hehe
I used SC for ASA before. It is very handy.
Sybase Central is now a pure Java application. Again, it is only
a viewer. So the quality of GUI really depends on the quality
of the plug-in.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: The one I am using is 3.2, I guess what I am talking about is
: the database management plug-in written by sybase, which is
: pretty primitive. I am going to use dbartisan.
c*g
73 楼
yes, actually when I used it the first time, I told myself what a
lousy job xt did, for I had this impression that that your company had been
doing java gui for sybase.
【在 xt 的大作中提到】
:
: Is that the SC for ASE? I never used it, but I don't think
: people in California do good GUI any way. hehe
: I used SC for ASA before. It is very handy.
: Sybase Central is now a pure Java application. Again, it is only
: a viewer. So the quality of GUI really depends on the quality
: of the plug-in.
B*N
74 楼
首先声明，我不是托。
字处理软件的user interface 要远比IDE复杂的多。我们讨论swing的快慢。我是说永中
的swing作的很好，很快。
program
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: 老兄是个托吧,这永中听起来应该是个字处理软件,和netbean, jbuilder是哪跟哪啊,
: 我再牛也不能拿ms word编java程序玩儿吧.
字处理软件的user interface 要远比IDE复杂的多。我们讨论swing的快慢。我是说永中
的swing作的很好，很快。
program
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: 老兄是个托吧,这永中听起来应该是个字处理软件,和netbean, jbuilder是哪跟哪啊,
: 我再牛也不能拿ms word编java程序玩儿吧.
c*g
75 楼
ic, sorry.
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 首先声明，我不是托。
: 字处理软件的user interface 要远比IDE复杂的多。我们讨论swing的快慢。我是说永中
: 的swing作的很好，很快。
:
: program
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 首先声明，我不是托。
: 字处理软件的user interface 要远比IDE复杂的多。我们讨论swing的快慢。我是说永中
: 的swing作的很好，很快。
:
: program
xt
76 楼
Sybase Central viewer is developed by iAnywhere Solutions, which was known as
Watcom and Powersoft before. It was first used in the iAnywhere products such
as Active Server Anywhere. Now it is used in many products offered by Sybase,
including ASE. I think I wrote two plug-ins and maintained two or three more
of them. I find it a very handy tool if you want to develop a remote
administration
console.
【在 c**g 的大作中提到】
: ic, sorry.
F*n
77 楼
这是本地编译过的, 作弊不算.
中
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 首先声明，我不是托。
: 字处理软件的user interface 要远比IDE复杂的多。我们讨论swing的快慢。我是说永中
: 的swing作的很好，很快。
:
: program
中
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: 首先声明，我不是托。
: 字处理软件的user interface 要远比IDE复杂的多。我们讨论swing的快慢。我是说永中
: 的swing作的很好，很快。
:
: program
B*N
78 楼
please explain more? can java precompile to native like C#?
永
啊,
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这是本地编译过的, 作弊不算.
:
: 中
永
啊,
【在 F****n 的大作中提到】
: 这是本地编译过的, 作弊不算.
:
: 中
F*n
79 楼
You can generate localized code using some tools. However, software packaged
in this way is not really platform independent.
说
哪
company，是我见到最好的swing
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: please explain more? can java precompile to native like C#?
:
: 永
: 啊,
in this way is not really platform independent.
说
哪
company，是我见到最好的swing
【在 B******N 的大作中提到】
: please explain more? can java precompile to native like C#?
:
: 永
: 啊,
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