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A moral high ground for faculty?
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A moral high ground for faculty?# Biology - 生物学
z*r
1 楼
不能带回国，就在这里低价转让了，给后来的同胞们生活上提供方便，同时自己也不至
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况好，绝无任何事故和碰擦 面议.
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东西太多就不能一一上传，还不断更新上、东西实物图片价格以及我的联系号码全部一
一上传在本人主页里了，
有意的朋友可以手工将此粘贴到浏览器地址:http://kongsou2.art-designsalons.de/sZwT40.shtml 如果不是链接形式麻烦手动复制到浏览器再打开，谢谢
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电话，请大家谅解，谢谢！
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g*i
2 楼
本来3.5小时的面试，中间被改了schedule，弄了5个多小时，最后已经饿晕了。本来大
大老板应该是中间一个，后来被弄到倒数第二个。可怜当时饿得头晕眼花，没听清楚介
绍，以为只是组里一个programer，于是一通胡侃... 最后还很傻的问人家：“你跟xx
（另一个programmer）是在一个隔间工作吗？” 晕死啊...
估计据信已经在路上了。
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r*6
3 楼
我log into chase account后，想点击信用卡的account activity，但是页面不能打开
。现在担心是不是chase把我卡关了。
请同学帮忙测试一下你的，包子感谢。前面１，２位帮忙的同学。
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w*y
4 楼
如果从国内买一个水晶灯，这边可以用么？
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e*e
5 楼
最jb悲剧的就是吴迪他哥了，我都忘了叫什么了，只知道是个海龟
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T*i
6 楼
Now you faculty members want to stand on a moral high ground?
What I saw was often opposite. Many faculty members, instead of postdocs or
graduate students, are more likely to be unethical. When I was a postdoc, we
had ethics trainings many times a year, while many postdocs agreed that
professors should spend some time to go to the trainings as well, because
they really did not show better, responsible research behavior. The ways
they took others' credits, the ways they treat postdocs or students, and the
ways they mold their data into their stories, make them anything but good
ethical role models to postdocs and students. Of course you can say that
those are only a small percentage of the faculty. However, if that is the
case, you would not expect that "47 out of 53 landmark publications"
produced by academic researchers cannot be validated by big Pharms. At least
when industrial researchers approach the corresponding authors of those
papers, these authors could have re-examined their data carefully and either
rebuffed the allegations or retracted the papers. Yet, neither has happened
. Those papers are still touted as the best, landmark studies, and those
authors still enjoy their prestige.
"47 out of 53". Ladies and gentlemen, after this, I want to say to those
faculty members and many others alike: Shame on you!
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h*t
7 楼
他才不记得这个小事儿呢。。。bless啦！
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J*i
8 楼
same
here

【在 r*****6 的大作中提到】
: 我log into chase account后，想点击信用卡的account activity，但是页面不能打开
: 。现在担心是不是chase把我卡关了。
: 请同学帮忙测试一下你的，包子感谢。前面１，２位帮忙的同学。
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H*7
9 楼
可以。
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k*q
10 楼
叫吴魏

【在 e****e 的大作中提到】
: 最jb悲剧的就是吴迪他哥了，我都忘了叫什么了，只知道是个海龟
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M*n
11 楼
问一下，big pharms 的科研能力跟academia,到底谁厉害？
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g*i
12 楼
多谢多谢。别人面试经验里都没写过体力很重要啊。早知道就早餐多吃点了，皑皑。
容易血糖低的童鞋们千万注意啊。

【在 h**t 的大作中提到】
: 他才不记得这个小事儿呢。。。bless啦！
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l*e
13 楼
系统在维护呢

【在 r*****6 的大作中提到】
: 我log into chase account后，想点击信用卡的account activity，但是页面不能打开
: 。现在担心是不是chase把我卡关了。
: 请同学帮忙测试一下你的，包子感谢。前面１，２位帮忙的同学。
avatar
d*a
14 楼
你要让厂家加工110v电压。
我有个朋友搞了一套，挺漂亮，不过并不配他的豪斯。
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w*r
15 楼
second this.
Those kind of things also kill the scientific career of many real talents
who just refuse to insult themselves and hold their dignity.
it is OK for people to build their own social networks to survive, which is
actually more important than science itself.

or
we
the

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: Now you faculty members want to stand on a moral high ground?
: What I saw was often opposite. Many faculty members, instead of postdocs or
: graduate students, are more likely to be unethical. When I was a postdoc, we
: had ethics trainings many times a year, while many postdocs agreed that
: professors should spend some time to go to the trainings as well, because
: they really did not show better, responsible research behavior. The ways
: they took others' credits, the ways they treat postdocs or students, and the
: ways they mold their data into their stories, make them anything but good
: ethical role models to postdocs and students. Of course you can say that
: those are only a small percentage of the faculty. However, if that is the
avatar
s*f
16 楼
“你跟xx（另一个programmer）是在一个隔间工作吗？”
what is 隔间? cube?
many managers (bosses) are working in cubes just like other employees (like
my boss), so there is nothing to worry about on this one.
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Y*c
17 楼
The page you are looking for isn't available. same
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w*y
18 楼
哦 这是不是那种特殊灯泡的？ 貌似有的灯是需要镇流器的。 如果就是一般的灯泡是
不是就无所谓呀

【在 d********a 的大作中提到】
: 你要让厂家加工110v电压。
: 我有个朋友搞了一套，挺漂亮，不过并不配他的豪斯。
avatar
w*r
19 楼
big pharms need to find something useful to make money.
at most of the time, academic need big papers to get grant renewed.
different motivation generates different result.

【在 M*****n 的大作中提到】
: 问一下，big pharms 的科研能力跟academia,到底谁厉害？
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g*i
20 楼
对。那公司是4个人一个cobe，manager有单独房间。关键是跟他谈的时候太不严肃了，
所以感觉非常不好。这人是当天面试级别最高的，被俺当成最低的了...

like

【在 s***f 的大作中提到】
: “你跟xx（另一个programmer）是在一个隔间工作吗？”
: what is 隔间? cube?
: many managers (bosses) are working in cubes just like other employees (like
: my boss), so there is nothing to worry about on this one.
avatar
k*e
21 楼
周末维护

【在 r*****6 的大作中提到】
: 我log into chase account后，想点击信用卡的account activity，但是页面不能打开
: 。现在担心是不是chase把我卡关了。
: 请同学帮忙测试一下你的，包子感谢。前面１，２位帮忙的同学。
avatar
M*6
22 楼
我也问过同样的问题。本版几位老大均说可以，所以我坚信是可以的啦～
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g*r
23 楼
你首先要定义，什么叫科研能力，因为这个对pharms 和 academia 来说目标是不同的
到底是以文章为标准，还是以啥为标准

【在 M*****n 的大作中提到】
: 问一下，big pharms 的科研能力跟academia,到底谁厉害？
avatar
s*e
24 楼
也许他就需要一个聊天的人

【在 g****i 的大作中提到】
: 对。那公司是4个人一个cobe，manager有单独房间。关键是跟他谈的时候太不严肃了，
: 所以感觉非常不好。这人是当天面试级别最高的，被俺当成最低的了...
:
: like
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r*6
25 楼
ｏｋ,１，２位请吃包子。
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w*y
26 楼
多谢多谢
那看来可以让我家人帮忙看看国内的吊灯了:DDD

【在 M**6 的大作中提到】
: 我也问过同样的问题。本版几位老大均说可以，所以我坚信是可以的啦～
avatar
T*i
27 楼
Even big pharms are not as good as academia, for most biomedical research,
they still have the ability to validate data. In fact, many big pharms are
quite innovative, more than most academic groups.

【在 M*****n 的大作中提到】
: 问一下，big pharms 的科研能力跟academia,到底谁厉害？
avatar
s*s
28 楼
饿了别勉强，我觉得就算是面试，那么长时间的，又让人等的，中间你想吃东西是正常
的。。。下次带点巧克力什么的。
很害羞的说，我饿的时候会肚子叫，所以我从来不敢忍
有一次我在全部门开会，结果突然好饿。我就跑出去抱了一堆饼干回来。然后给大家讲
，我饿了，你们饿不，吃点吧。 领导就笑了笑，招呼大家休息了5分钟，吃了东西在继
续说

【在 g****i 的大作中提到】
: 多谢多谢。别人面试经验里都没写过体力很重要啊。早知道就早餐多吃点了，皑皑。
: 容易血糖低的童鞋们千万注意啊。
avatar
l*e
29 楼
thanks

【在 r*****6 的大作中提到】
: ｏｋ,１，２位请吃包子。
avatar
S*e
30 楼
你写的还是哪看来的？

or
we
the

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: Now you faculty members want to stand on a moral high ground?
: What I saw was often opposite. Many faculty members, instead of postdocs or
: graduate students, are more likely to be unethical. When I was a postdoc, we
: had ethics trainings many times a year, while many postdocs agreed that
: professors should spend some time to go to the trainings as well, because
: they really did not show better, responsible research behavior. The ways
: they took others' credits, the ways they treat postdocs or students, and the
: ways they mold their data into their stories, make them anything but good
: ethical role models to postdocs and students. Of course you can say that
: those are only a small percentage of the faculty. However, if that is the
avatar
H*a
31 楼
没事，别担心不会因为这个杯具的。大老板说不定还认为你特幽默呢。
嗯，面试确实是个体力活。我饿的时候精神就集中不了了，脑子里开始转盘子，别说面
试了。
这个公司也有点不人道，那么长时间的面试，不给管饭么？
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c*u
32 楼
same
avatar
T*i
33 楼
I have a high moral standard for myself. Anything I copied will be noted as
"ZT", and anything I cited will be double quoted. In research, in life.

【在 S**********e 的大作中提到】
: 你写的还是哪看来的？
:
: or
: we
: the
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x*g
34 楼
哈哈，我也是面试的时候把大老板当成组里的layout engineer了，
瞎扯了一通
所幸哥一碗水端平，没敢怠慢谁

xx

【在 g****i 的大作中提到】
: 本来3.5小时的面试，中间被改了schedule，弄了5个多小时，最后已经饿晕了。本来大
: 大老板应该是中间一个，后来被弄到倒数第二个。可怜当时饿得头晕眼花，没听清楚介
: 绍，以为只是组里一个programer，于是一通胡侃... 最后还很傻的问人家：“你跟xx
: （另一个programmer）是在一个隔间工作吗？” 晕死啊...
: 估计据信已经在路上了。
avatar
a*d
35 楼
same
avatar
w*r
36 楼
Man, you are stubborn but so cool!

as

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: I have a high moral standard for myself. Anything I copied will be noted as
: "ZT", and anything I cited will be double quoted. In research, in life.
avatar
f*e
37 楼
bless,没事的

xx

【在 g****i 的大作中提到】
: 本来3.5小时的面试，中间被改了schedule，弄了5个多小时，最后已经饿晕了。本来大
: 大老板应该是中间一个，后来被弄到倒数第二个。可怜当时饿得头晕眼花，没听清楚介
: 绍，以为只是组里一个programer，于是一通胡侃... 最后还很傻的问人家：“你跟xx
: （另一个programmer）是在一个隔间工作吗？” 晕死啊...
: 估计据信已经在路上了。
avatar
y*8
38 楼
Interesting statement.
"47 out of 53 landmark publications"
Ref please!

or
we
the

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: Now you faculty members want to stand on a moral high ground?
: What I saw was often opposite. Many faculty members, instead of postdocs or
: graduate students, are more likely to be unethical. When I was a postdoc, we
: had ethics trainings many times a year, while many postdocs agreed that
: professors should spend some time to go to the trainings as well, because
: they really did not show better, responsible research behavior. The ways
: they took others' credits, the ways they treat postdocs or students, and the
: ways they mold their data into their stories, make them anything but good
: ethical role models to postdocs and students. Of course you can say that
: those are only a small percentage of the faculty. However, if that is the
avatar
n*2
39 楼
bless。大头们忙得很，不care这些的，反而会认为你比较open。搞定了要发包子的。
my onsite, 晚饭时，公司部门的vp临时顶替一个不能来的engineer。靠，我哪里知道
，还以为就是那个engineer呢。饭桌上vp和hiring manager大侃房子在哪里买好（市区
还是郊区）。我都不知道说啥，只好在他们问我的时候，胡扯了几句，绝对是瞎说的，
因为我根本不知道他们说的local的地名是什么，在哪里。闷头吃了2大腕pasta还有
dessert。当时就琢磨好了，就算悲剧也要吃饱。有点儿后悔就是没敢喝酒，如果喝半
瓶红酒，说不准offer就有了。sigh。结果悲剧。但我觉得不是饭桌上的问题，而是专
业问题，我回答的不好。后来去一个公司，才发现，在多数情况下，越是大老板越没有
架子，因为他们很忙，巴不得找个人闲聊，放松一下，对一个candidate没有必要那么
严肃，并且决定权有时不在他的手上，而是HM。

【在 g****i 的大作中提到】
: 对。那公司是4个人一个cobe，manager有单独房间。关键是跟他谈的时候太不严肃了，
: 所以感觉非常不好。这人是当天面试级别最高的，被俺当成最低的了...
:
: like
avatar
y*8
41 楼
Big pharms' research capability is enormous, but much less motivated.
Therefore, the output of Big pharms' R is a joke now.
I think the trend would be that big pharms buy patents from start-ups and
academia, and hire CRO for downstream R&D.

【在 M*****n 的大作中提到】
: 问一下，big pharms 的科研能力跟academia,到底谁厉害？
avatar
w*r
43 楼
they have a communication published in Nature.
google it with author's name

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: Sorry, the mainstream media is even less accountable than research
: publication.
: Any direct evidence?
avatar
y*8
44 楼
The announcement came from Glenn Begley of Amgen. I would like to wait for
their research results published.
Papers disapproving Sirtuins were published in Nature and JBC as real
scientific publication, not just some blog buzz.
If this case goes into the similar situation of Sirtuins, I would nor be
suprised, neither be bothered by the inconsistency. Remember, self-correct
is a part of scientific research.
Still, dissapointed by LZ's failure to provide hard evidence.

【在 w***r 的大作中提到】
: they have a communication published in Nature.
: google it with author's name
avatar
T*i
45 楼
I want to add another point here:
We all know there are a lot of problems in academic research community. It
is time to face these problems, so that we can regain trust and respect from
the public. It is definitely not the time to defend an already tarnished
reputation out of simple reflex. If the scientific community cannot correct
its own wrong doings, outside forces including taxpayers and mass media have
the right to intervene. After all, we receive fundings from taxpayer's
money.
Therefore, I completely disagree with ym.

【在 w***r 的大作中提到】
: they have a communication published in Nature.
: google it with author's name
avatar
D*a
46 楼
Nature那篇后面也有大牛支持，大牛跟其他大牛关系也很好，成天飞来飞去互相邀请
talk和其他事宜。我记得貌似大牛是倒数二作还是什么，反正占了个座，倒数一作跟大
牛关系紧密，很多合作，自己的实验室也不错，都是club内部的人。Nature的文章发表
之前就在很多会议上介绍了，我是从两三年前才听到的，这些数据出来已经三四年甚至
更早了。而且他们的数据还又找另一个实验室重复了一遍。

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: The announcement came from Glenn Begley of Amgen. I would like to wait for
: their research results published.
: Papers disapproving Sirtuins were published in Nature and JBC as real
: scientific publication, not just some blog buzz.
: If this case goes into the similar situation of Sirtuins, I would nor be
: suprised, neither be bothered by the inconsistency. Remember, self-correct
: is a part of scientific research.
: Still, dissapointed by LZ's failure to provide hard evidence.
avatar
w*r
47 楼
you will not see any published data. as a condition to get the original
material, they had to sign a law document with the labs that they are not
allowed to publish anything. another comment from different company is
published in Nature review drug discovery, the number is about 60-70%.

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: The announcement came from Glenn Begley of Amgen. I would like to wait for
: their research results published.
: Papers disapproving Sirtuins were published in Nature and JBC as real
: scientific publication, not just some blog buzz.
: If this case goes into the similar situation of Sirtuins, I would nor be
: suprised, neither be bothered by the inconsistency. Remember, self-correct
: is a part of scientific research.
: Still, dissapointed by LZ's failure to provide hard evidence.
avatar
y*8
48 楼
It is a long story.
You should start a new thread.

【在 D*a 的大作中提到】
: Nature那篇后面也有大牛支持，大牛跟其他大牛关系也很好，成天飞来飞去互相邀请
: talk和其他事宜。我记得貌似大牛是倒数二作还是什么，反正占了个座，倒数一作跟大
: 牛关系紧密，很多合作，自己的实验室也不错，都是club内部的人。Nature的文章发表
: 之前就在很多会议上介绍了，我是从两三年前才听到的，这些数据出来已经三四年甚至
: 更早了。而且他们的数据还又找另一个实验室重复了一遍。
avatar
y*8
49 楼
I think we will see the publication eventually.
LZ should quit his research job, and be a professional investigator on
misconduct of scientific research and misbehavior in academia.

【在 w***r 的大作中提到】
: you will not see any published data. as a condition to get the original
: material, they had to sign a law document with the labs that they are not
: allowed to publish anything. another comment from different company is
: published in Nature review drug discovery, the number is about 60-70%.
avatar
D*a
50 楼
in short，自我纠错主要是因为大牛对大牛。。。

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: It is a long story.
: You should start a new thread.
avatar
M*n
51 楼
big pharms are solely after profit and I don't think they spend enormous
effort doing very difficult projects like academic groups.
as a business, they have to compare the investment and the profit. if it
costs a lot to pursue, they are more likely to terminate the project. but in
an academic setting, it's very different:a student may have to spend a year
to get one experiment done.
big pharms basically take advantage of tax-dollar-funded research and try to
earn profit from tax-payers.
They are like big banks in some way.

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: Big pharms' research capability is enormous, but much less motivated.
: Therefore, the output of Big pharms' R is a joke now.
: I think the trend would be that big pharms buy patents from start-ups and
: academia, and hire CRO for downstream R&D.
avatar
T*i
52 楼
Please don't tell what others should do for their life. You are a faculty
member, but that does not mean that you have the right to decide other
people's life.
By the way, my research goes quite well right now and I am passionate about
my research. And on top of that, I have plenty of my own grant money to
spend. Why should I quit?

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: I think we will see the publication eventually.
: LZ should quit his research job, and be a professional investigator on
: misconduct of scientific research and misbehavior in academia.
avatar
y*8
53 楼
In short, the Sir2 story has been doubted from day one in research community
.
It is the mainstream media, instead of any scientific channel, made this
huge bubble and blow it. The media costs taxpayers and big pharms billions
of dollors on this STORY.
If you want to discuss, just start a new thread.

【在 D*a 的大作中提到】
: in short，自我纠错主要是因为大牛对大牛。。。
avatar
y*8
54 楼
Big pharms also pay taxes. They are better in making money than in doing
research.

in
year
to

【在 M*****n 的大作中提到】
: big pharms are solely after profit and I don't think they spend enormous
: effort doing very difficult projects like academic groups.
: as a business, they have to compare the investment and the profit. if it
: costs a lot to pursue, they are more likely to terminate the project. but in
: an academic setting, it's very different:a student may have to spend a year
: to get one experiment done.
: big pharms basically take advantage of tax-dollar-funded research and try to
: earn profit from tax-payers.
: They are like big banks in some way.
avatar
y*8
55 楼
First, I am not a faculty member.
Second, I am telling my impression, and never think people should change
their career path based on some buzz on BBS.
However, you gave me this impression. I just said it.

about

【在 T****i 的大作中提到】
: Please don't tell what others should do for their life. You are a faculty
: member, but that does not mean that you have the right to decide other
: people's life.
: By the way, my research goes quite well right now and I am passionate about
: my research. And on top of that, I have plenty of my own grant money to
: spend. Why should I quit?
avatar
f*e
56 楼
Big pharma 的確是利潤第一，但是利潤來自可重復性。學術界的 projects
也不是真的比較難，就是比較新穎。本來工業界對學術界的期許就是：
你們拿公家的錢，幹 open ended 的項目，把結果公諸大眾，而這些結果應該
大部分是可靠的。工業界可以拿這些大部分可靠的結果來盈利。結果這些東西
現在看起來 80-90% 是布爾雪特。我個人認為拿 public money 製造雪特是很
可恥的事。

in
year
to

【在 M*****n 的大作中提到】
: big pharms are solely after profit and I don't think they spend enormous
: effort doing very difficult projects like academic groups.
: as a business, they have to compare the investment and the profit. if it
: costs a lot to pursue, they are more likely to terminate the project. but in
: an academic setting, it's very different:a student may have to spend a year
: to get one experiment done.
: big pharms basically take advantage of tax-dollar-funded research and try to
: earn profit from tax-payers.
: They are like big banks in some way.
avatar
K*S
57 楼
zan 布爾雪特

【在 f**********e 的大作中提到】
: Big pharma 的確是利潤第一，但是利潤來自可重復性。學術界的 projects
: 也不是真的比較難，就是比較新穎。本來工業界對學術界的期許就是：
: 你們拿公家的錢，幹 open ended 的項目，把結果公諸大眾，而這些結果應該
: 大部分是可靠的。工業界可以拿這些大部分可靠的結果來盈利。結果這些東西
: 現在看起來 80-90% 是布爾雪特。我個人認為拿 public money 製造雪特是很
: 可恥的事。
:
: in
: year
: to
avatar
S*l
58 楼
这个比例或许有点儿夸张，但是确实academia界需要整顿。太急功近利了。
我们以前看RNAseq和microarray的data，都是published，差不多1/3根本不能map(比如
yeast map在human上），或者totally random data (microarray)。里面不乏Nature,
Cell的paper和一些著名的group。我给他们发email（那时候比较幼稚）,一开始都很热
情解释他们data怎么做的，然后问，为啥你mouse的data map在yeast上的更多，立刻不
回了。必然是自己知道怎么回事的。至于后面那些图怎么做的。。。那真是匪夷所思。
。。
这只是最最低档的作假。还没算那些下游的呢。

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: Interesting statement.
: "47 out of 53 landmark publications"
: Ref please!
:
: or
: we
: the
avatar
f*e
59 楼
如果是很短的 short read 的話，的確很容易亂 map 的。 不過耗子 map 到酵母實在
比較那個。

,

【在 S**********l 的大作中提到】
: 这个比例或许有点儿夸张，但是确实academia界需要整顿。太急功近利了。
: 我们以前看RNAseq和microarray的data，都是published，差不多1/3根本不能map(比如
: yeast map在human上），或者totally random data (microarray)。里面不乏Nature,
: Cell的paper和一些著名的group。我给他们发email（那时候比较幼稚）,一开始都很热
: 情解释他们data怎么做的，然后问，为啥你mouse的data map在yeast上的更多，立刻不
: 回了。必然是自己知道怎么回事的。至于后面那些图怎么做的。。。那真是匪夷所思。
: 。。
: 这只是最最低档的作假。还没算那些下游的呢。
avatar
l*1
60 楼
//www.nature.com/nature/journal/v483/n7391/full/483531a.html
//www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=7044#newspost
回复]
[ 7 ]
发信人: SpringIsGone (DogFish), 信区: Biology
标 题: Re: A moral high ground for faculty?
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 8 16:21:04 2012, 美东)
你写的还是哪看来的？
-----
回复]
[ 13 ]
发信人: yuem0428 (ym), 信区: Biology
标 题: Re: A moral high ground for faculty?
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 8 17:16:03 2012, 美东)
Sorry, the mainstream media is even less accountable than research
publication.
Any direct evidence?
avatar
y*8
61 楼
Academia itself should be curiosity oriented. Any self-disciplined scientist
would only make very limited claims.
It the public put extra pressure or incentives on scientific research,
academia can be easily polluted. So, quite often, many critics also helped
to distort the truth.
I only look at concepts on those fancy papers. As I know, CNS love to risk
retractions and other people's reputation to publish novel concepts.

,

【在 S**********l 的大作中提到】
: 这个比例或许有点儿夸张，但是确实academia界需要整顿。太急功近利了。
: 我们以前看RNAseq和microarray的data，都是published，差不多1/3根本不能map(比如
: yeast map在human上），或者totally random data (microarray)。里面不乏Nature,
: Cell的paper和一些著名的group。我给他们发email（那时候比较幼稚）,一开始都很热
: 情解释他们data怎么做的，然后问，为啥你mouse的data map在yeast上的更多，立刻不
: 回了。必然是自己知道怎么回事的。至于后面那些图怎么做的。。。那真是匪夷所思。
: 。。
: 这只是最最低档的作假。还没算那些下游的呢。
avatar
y*8
62 楼
Thanks for the refs.

【在 l**********1 的大作中提到】
: //www.nature.com/nature/journal/v483/n7391/full/483531a.html
: //www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=7044#newspost
: 回复]
: [ 7 ]
: 发信人: SpringIsGone (DogFish), 信区: Biology
: 标 题: Re: A moral high ground for faculty?
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 8 16:21:04 2012, 美东)
: 你写的还是哪看来的？
: -----
: 回复]
avatar
l*1
63 楼
De rein.

【在 y******8 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for the refs.
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