o*m
2 楼
我们实验室开发了一套数据，想将这个数据做成数据库发表为论文。所以急需开发一个
数据库网站。但本实验室人员尚无开发经验，特招人代工。
要求php+Mysql建站，能够实现如下功能
1，提交一个关键字，然后搜索数据库的某一列中等于这个关键字的条目
2，在打开的窗口中设超链接，能打开其他mysql表中的等于这个超链接关键字的条目
3，设计一个漂亮的网站
请各位报价，谢谢。
数据库网站。但本实验室人员尚无开发经验，特招人代工。
要求php+Mysql建站，能够实现如下功能
1，提交一个关键字，然后搜索数据库的某一列中等于这个关键字的条目
2，在打开的窗口中设超链接，能打开其他mysql表中的等于这个超链接关键字的条目
3，设计一个漂亮的网站
请各位报价，谢谢。
a*h
3 楼
现在买电脑，基本还是vista，或者Eligible for free upgrade到win7
a*g
4 楼
就是master of finance,跟MBA finance concentration两回事？
版上以前有人说不是top10 program,MSF出来小公司不好办H1B,能讲详细一点不？小妹
我刚申请了个州立大学的MSBA读，明年要出来工作，肯定要H1B,想问点意见啊。
版上以前有人说不是top10 program,MSF出来小公司不好办H1B,能讲详细一点不？小妹
我刚申请了个州立大学的MSBA读，明年要出来工作，肯定要H1B,想问点意见啊。
w*n
5 楼
在一些paper中看到用bandgap的电路来作为其他电路的supply voltage。
我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
p*0
6 楼
关于中国父母教育子女的，周弘的演讲，不知道大家有没有看过。
我看了一遍以后，连看第二遍的勇气都没有。太真实太贴切了，真实的让人无法回头去
面对。
【在 p******0 的大作中提到】
我看了一遍以后，连看第二遍的勇气都没有。太真实太贴切了，真实的让人无法回头去
面对。
【在 p******0 的大作中提到】
s*o
7 楼
你意思是数据库已经开发好了,就是做个UI和HOST一下啊，还是你们自己HOST，就是让
我们做个界面？这什么数据库开发啊？
【在 o*****m 的大作中提到】
: 我们实验室开发了一套数据，想将这个数据做成数据库发表为论文。所以急需开发一个
: 数据库网站。但本实验室人员尚无开发经验，特招人代工。
: 要求php+Mysql建站，能够实现如下功能
: 1，提交一个关键字，然后搜索数据库的某一列中等于这个关键字的条目
: 2，在打开的窗口中设超链接，能打开其他mysql表中的等于这个超链接关键字的条目
: 3，设计一个漂亮的网站
: 请各位报价，谢谢。
我们做个界面？这什么数据库开发啊？
【在 o*****m 的大作中提到】
: 我们实验室开发了一套数据，想将这个数据做成数据库发表为论文。所以急需开发一个
: 数据库网站。但本实验室人员尚无开发经验，特招人代工。
: 要求php+Mysql建站，能够实现如下功能
: 1，提交一个关键字，然后搜索数据库的某一列中等于这个关键字的条目
: 2，在打开的窗口中设超链接，能打开其他mysql表中的等于这个超链接关键字的条目
: 3，设计一个漂亮的网站
: 请各位报价，谢谢。
n*n
8 楼
10月22号以后？
a*g
9 楼
发信人: dancingirl (dancingirl), 信区: Business
标 题: Re: 请大家帮忙出主意，关于选专业
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Feb 24 22:20:01 2008)
读accounting,管理会计考CMA，财务的考CPA。CMA个人认为比CPA有用，因为可以拿着
去敲consulting的公司。读金融master，没有top10的offer，要想去wall st firms还
是比较困难，去一般的小公司H1B有问题。6年一到你老公要是不想回国你还是有身份的
麻烦。
CFA继续考阿，三级一过你的胜算就大些。但那个主要用来做portfolio management，
你要是没啥兴趣不考也无所谓。
标 题: Re: 请大家帮忙出主意，关于选专业
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Feb 24 22:20:01 2008)
读accounting,管理会计考CMA，财务的考CPA。CMA个人认为比CPA有用，因为可以拿着
去敲consulting的公司。读金融master，没有top10的offer，要想去wall st firms还
是比较困难，去一般的小公司H1B有问题。6年一到你老公要是不想回国你还是有身份的
麻烦。
CFA继续考阿，三级一过你的胜算就大些。但那个主要用来做portfolio management，
你要是没啥兴趣不考也无所谓。
f*0
10 楼
think about what a bandgap is and how it works and then rethink about your
question.
question.
p*0
11 楼
【在 p******0 的大作中提到】
: 关于中国父母教育子女的，周弘的演讲，不知道大家有没有看过。
: 我看了一遍以后，连看第二遍的勇气都没有。太真实太贴切了，真实的让人无法回头去
: 面对。
a*h
12 楼
真的？我快等不及了
【在 n*******n 的大作中提到】
: 10月22号以后？
【在 n*******n 的大作中提到】
: 10月22号以后？
a*g
13 楼
前面好多有经验人的帖子也看了，先谢谢意见。说实话，大家都说MSF没用，工作不好
找，靠bullshit和吹牛。进IB consulting卖命的活儿。我26,工科背景，想拼一吧换专
业，自己也喜欢finance，interpersonal communication skill算比较强的，但经济有
限，只能读二流州立的商学院。以后还有拿PR的路要走。前辈们能不能再给我点意见。
办H1B的情况，以及以后打拼的路等。谢谢了。
找，靠bullshit和吹牛。进IB consulting卖命的活儿。我26,工科背景，想拼一吧换专
业，自己也喜欢finance，interpersonal communication skill算比较强的，但经济有
限，只能读二流州立的商学院。以后还有拿PR的路要走。前辈们能不能再给我点意见。
办H1B的情况，以及以后打拼的路等。谢谢了。
w*n
14 楼
我还是不懂，大侠能在讲明白点吗？谢谢。
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: think about what a bandgap is and how it works and then rethink about your
: question.
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: think about what a bandgap is and how it works and then rethink about your
: question.
p*r
15 楼
谢谢。很好。
l*e
16 楼
是的10月22日，win7正式上架
到时候，电脑应该也会装上
【在 a****h 的大作中提到】
: 真的？我快等不及了
到时候，电脑应该也会装上
【在 a****h 的大作中提到】
: 真的？我快等不及了
d*y
17 楼
So why bother asking again?
MSF is only useful is you are a loser like me: undergrad major in finance,
30k salary on first job in
subprime mortgage market and not smart enough to do anything else master/phd
. yeah there was some
incremental value in this degree. but whats the point if you are smart
enough to get engineering/CS ect...?
【在 a***g 的大作中提到】
: 前面好多有经验人的帖子也看了，先谢谢意见。说实话，大家都说MSF没用，工作不好
: 找，靠bullshit和吹牛。进IB consulting卖命的活儿。我26,工科背景，想拼一吧换专
: 业，自己也喜欢finance，interpersonal communication skill算比较强的，但经济有
: 限，只能读二流州立的商学院。以后还有拿PR的路要走。前辈们能不能再给我点意见。
: 办H1B的情况，以及以后打拼的路等。谢谢了。
MSF is only useful is you are a loser like me: undergrad major in finance,
30k salary on first job in
subprime mortgage market and not smart enough to do anything else master/phd
. yeah there was some
incremental value in this degree. but whats the point if you are smart
enough to get engineering/CS ect...?
【在 a***g 的大作中提到】
: 前面好多有经验人的帖子也看了，先谢谢意见。说实话，大家都说MSF没用，工作不好
: 找，靠bullshit和吹牛。进IB consulting卖命的活儿。我26,工科背景，想拼一吧换专
: 业，自己也喜欢finance，interpersonal communication skill算比较强的，但经济有
: 限，只能读二流州立的商学院。以后还有拿PR的路要走。前辈们能不能再给我点意见。
: 办H1B的情况，以及以后打拼的路等。谢谢了。
c*u
18 楼
bandgap的输出电阻是啥意思？温度一变化，bandgap reference 的确会变化
【在 w*****n 的大作中提到】
: 在一些paper中看到用bandgap的电路来作为其他电路的supply voltage。
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
【在 w*****n 的大作中提到】
: 在一些paper中看到用bandgap的电路来作为其他电路的supply voltage。
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
p*r
19 楼
看了之后，我觉得我还是比较幸运的。我父母只打过我两次，一次是我调皮害我爸摔得
厉害，另一次是闯了大祸。呵呵。而且，他们也还算经常表扬我的。
那么为什么我有一些不安全感呢？主要是部分老师和部分过于早熟的心地不够善良的同
学的。当然，这些同学，也是他们父母和老师教育不好的结果。
而我父母主要的问题，在于面对这个不是时时善良地社会的时候，态度很消极，并且影
响到了我，让我觉得我们这种善良的单纯的老实的人就是不能好好生存的。所以，他们
的态度，就不是一个doer的态度。当然，我认为，这样还是比让我也去学得阴险要好。
厉害，另一次是闯了大祸。呵呵。而且，他们也还算经常表扬我的。
那么为什么我有一些不安全感呢？主要是部分老师和部分过于早熟的心地不够善良的同
学的。当然，这些同学，也是他们父母和老师教育不好的结果。
而我父母主要的问题，在于面对这个不是时时善良地社会的时候，态度很消极，并且影
响到了我，让我觉得我们这种善良的单纯的老实的人就是不能好好生存的。所以，他们
的态度，就不是一个doer的态度。当然，我认为，这样还是比让我也去学得阴险要好。
x*o
20 楼
我原来也想选finance做major，finance本科major有什么弊端吗
phd
【在 d*****y 的大作中提到】
: So why bother asking again?
: MSF is only useful is you are a loser like me: undergrad major in finance,
: 30k salary on first job in
: subprime mortgage market and not smart enough to do anything else master/phd
: . yeah there was some
: incremental value in this degree. but whats the point if you are smart
: enough to get engineering/CS ect...?
phd
【在 d*****y 的大作中提到】
: So why bother asking again?
: MSF is only useful is you are a loser like me: undergrad major in finance,
: 30k salary on first job in
: subprime mortgage market and not smart enough to do anything else master/phd
: . yeah there was some
: incremental value in this degree. but whats the point if you are smart
: enough to get engineering/CS ect...?
h*y
21 楼
我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
bandgap is buffered (LOW Rout) before it's used as supply voltage.
温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
bandgap is very stable with temp, this is what it's supposed to be; if not,
the design is bad
的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
bandgap is buffered (LOW Rout) before it's used as supply voltage.
温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
bandgap is very stable with temp, this is what it's supposed to be; if not,
the design is bad
t*g
22 楼
我们的父母教育方式，性情比较像啊。。。。
父母太善良，老被社会欺压，
老爸就不会吹捧，不会说假话，实事求是
上级不喜欢。。。反抗。。。无望。。。只能忍着
所以家里对社会的阴暗面就揭露地比较多啦
好在，即使这样，父母还是鼓励脚踏实地。。。想想他们真得很不容易
【在 p**********r 的大作中提到】
: 看了之后，我觉得我还是比较幸运的。我父母只打过我两次，一次是我调皮害我爸摔得
: 厉害，另一次是闯了大祸。呵呵。而且，他们也还算经常表扬我的。
: 那么为什么我有一些不安全感呢？主要是部分老师和部分过于早熟的心地不够善良的同
: 学的。当然，这些同学，也是他们父母和老师教育不好的结果。
: 而我父母主要的问题，在于面对这个不是时时善良地社会的时候，态度很消极，并且影
: 响到了我，让我觉得我们这种善良的单纯的老实的人就是不能好好生存的。所以，他们
: 的态度，就不是一个doer的态度。当然，我认为，这样还是比让我也去学得阴险要好。
父母太善良，老被社会欺压，
老爸就不会吹捧，不会说假话，实事求是
上级不喜欢。。。反抗。。。无望。。。只能忍着
所以家里对社会的阴暗面就揭露地比较多啦
好在，即使这样，父母还是鼓励脚踏实地。。。想想他们真得很不容易
【在 p**********r 的大作中提到】
: 看了之后，我觉得我还是比较幸运的。我父母只打过我两次，一次是我调皮害我爸摔得
: 厉害，另一次是闯了大祸。呵呵。而且，他们也还算经常表扬我的。
: 那么为什么我有一些不安全感呢？主要是部分老师和部分过于早熟的心地不够善良的同
: 学的。当然，这些同学，也是他们父母和老师教育不好的结果。
: 而我父母主要的问题，在于面对这个不是时时善良地社会的时候，态度很消极，并且影
: 响到了我，让我觉得我们这种善良的单纯的老实的人就是不能好好生存的。所以，他们
: 的态度，就不是一个doer的态度。当然，我认为，这样还是比让我也去学得阴险要好。
d*y
23 楼
If you are jewish or asian or white MALE, you are in good shape.
Starting salary is too low, not a good solid foundation for advanced studies
. But srsly how many asian parents will let their kids go free without
getting a masters, phd first? :p
【在 x********o 的大作中提到】
: 我原来也想选finance做major，finance本科major有什么弊端吗
:
: phd
Starting salary is too low, not a good solid foundation for advanced studies
. But srsly how many asian parents will let their kids go free without
getting a masters, phd first? :p
【在 x********o 的大作中提到】
: 我原来也想选finance做major，finance本科major有什么弊端吗
:
: phd
w*n
24 楼
我的想法是这样的：正如你所说要用一个buffer，假设buffer的输出为Rout，而负载的
等效电阻为RL，Vo为buffer的输出电压，不会随温度而变化。那么最终负载的电压应该是
VL=Vo*RL/(Rout+RL)。理想的voltage source的Rout应该是0，可是这里的Rout和RL应
该像差不大，还有RL也可能随温度而变化，这样最终的提供给负载的电压不久不稳定了
吗。
【在 h*******y 的大作中提到】
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
: bandgap is buffered (LOW Rout) before it's used as supply voltage.
: 温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
: bandgap is very stable with temp, this is what it's supposed to be; if not,
: the design is bad
等效电阻为RL，Vo为buffer的输出电压，不会随温度而变化。那么最终负载的电压应该是
VL=Vo*RL/(Rout+RL)。理想的voltage source的Rout应该是0，可是这里的Rout和RL应
该像差不大，还有RL也可能随温度而变化，这样最终的提供给负载的电压不久不稳定了
吗。
【在 h*******y 的大作中提到】
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
: bandgap is buffered (LOW Rout) before it's used as supply voltage.
: 温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
: bandgap is very stable with temp, this is what it's supposed to be; if not,
: the design is bad
p*r
25 楼
对啊。其实我觉得可能这几天参与讨论的好几个人的父母都是这样的。所以他们开头往
往说“其实父母还是很善良的”。善良的人面对一些不好的现象的时候，感觉无能为力
，由于时代的原因，只好消极，并进而影响到了儿女。
我们一定要tough，不要把我们的生存空间让给恶的。当然也要宽宏一点，须知那些恶
的也可能是不幸的生活的后果。
【在 t*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我们的父母教育方式，性情比较像啊。。。。
: 父母太善良，老被社会欺压，
: 老爸就不会吹捧，不会说假话，实事求是
: 上级不喜欢。。。反抗。。。无望。。。只能忍着
: 所以家里对社会的阴暗面就揭露地比较多啦
: 好在，即使这样，父母还是鼓励脚踏实地。。。想想他们真得很不容易
往说“其实父母还是很善良的”。善良的人面对一些不好的现象的时候，感觉无能为力
，由于时代的原因，只好消极，并进而影响到了儿女。
我们一定要tough，不要把我们的生存空间让给恶的。当然也要宽宏一点，须知那些恶
的也可能是不幸的生活的后果。
【在 t*******g 的大作中提到】
: 我们的父母教育方式，性情比较像啊。。。。
: 父母太善良，老被社会欺压，
: 老爸就不会吹捧，不会说假话，实事求是
: 上级不喜欢。。。反抗。。。无望。。。只能忍着
: 所以家里对社会的阴暗面就揭露地比较多啦
: 好在，即使这样，父母还是鼓励脚踏实地。。。想想他们真得很不容易
b*y
26 楼
subprime should been a good starting point. a few people i knew from new
century got into investment bank, private equity/hedge fund after the
closure last year.
phd
【在 d*****y 的大作中提到】
: So why bother asking again?
: MSF is only useful is you are a loser like me: undergrad major in finance,
: 30k salary on first job in
: subprime mortgage market and not smart enough to do anything else master/phd
: . yeah there was some
: incremental value in this degree. but whats the point if you are smart
: enough to get engineering/CS ect...?
century got into investment bank, private equity/hedge fund after the
closure last year.
phd
【在 d*****y 的大作中提到】
: So why bother asking again?
: MSF is only useful is you are a loser like me: undergrad major in finance,
: 30k salary on first job in
: subprime mortgage market and not smart enough to do anything else master/phd
: . yeah there was some
: incremental value in this degree. but whats the point if you are smart
: enough to get engineering/CS ect...?
f*0
27 楼
"VL=Vo*RL/(Rout+RL)。"
and Vl=Vo/(1+Rout/Rl).
do dVl/dRl and see what it is as Rout->0.
and Vl=Vo/(1+Rout/Rl).
do dVl/dRl and see what it is as Rout->0.
p*0
28 楼
@@ 你父母脾气真好啊
【在 p**********r 的大作中提到】
: 看了之后，我觉得我还是比较幸运的。我父母只打过我两次，一次是我调皮害我爸摔得
: 厉害，另一次是闯了大祸。呵呵。而且，他们也还算经常表扬我的。
: 那么为什么我有一些不安全感呢？主要是部分老师和部分过于早熟的心地不够善良的同
: 学的。当然，这些同学，也是他们父母和老师教育不好的结果。
: 而我父母主要的问题，在于面对这个不是时时善良地社会的时候，态度很消极，并且影
: 响到了我，让我觉得我们这种善良的单纯的老实的人就是不能好好生存的。所以，他们
: 的态度，就不是一个doer的态度。当然，我认为，这样还是比让我也去学得阴险要好。
【在 p**********r 的大作中提到】
: 看了之后，我觉得我还是比较幸运的。我父母只打过我两次，一次是我调皮害我爸摔得
: 厉害，另一次是闯了大祸。呵呵。而且，他们也还算经常表扬我的。
: 那么为什么我有一些不安全感呢？主要是部分老师和部分过于早熟的心地不够善良的同
: 学的。当然，这些同学，也是他们父母和老师教育不好的结果。
: 而我父母主要的问题，在于面对这个不是时时善良地社会的时候，态度很消极，并且影
: 响到了我，让我觉得我们这种善良的单纯的老实的人就是不能好好生存的。所以，他们
: 的态度，就不是一个doer的态度。当然，我认为，这样还是比让我也去学得阴险要好。
f*0
29 楼
that's right. the "gap" in "bandgap" refers to the difference between two
Vbe (or Vgs in the fet world). in its simplest form, a bandgap is the
difference between two Vbe driving by two different constant current sources
. as Vbe is much more sentitive to Ibe (the current going through the
junctions) than temperature, the differential in two Vbe simply cancels out
any fluction caused by temperature.
【在 h*******y 的大作中提到】
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
: bandgap is buffered (LOW Rout) before it's used as supply voltage.
: 温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
: bandgap is very stable with temp, this is what it's supposed to be; if not,
: the design is bad
p*r
30 楼
我爸脾气很暴躁的，家里经常吵架。还有一次他发怒之后用力推门，我正好在门后，结
果额头被撞出一个包，可能当时都有点裂了。不过这个不是他故意的，所以我没有算到
打我里面。
不过我父母一直认为打人是不对的。
【在 p******0 的大作中提到】
: @@ 你父母脾气真好啊
果额头被撞出一个包，可能当时都有点裂了。不过这个不是他故意的，所以我没有算到
打我里面。
不过我父母一直认为打人是不对的。
【在 p******0 的大作中提到】
: @@ 你父母脾气真好啊
e*b
31 楼
I never saw anyone directly uses a bandgap as power supply.
You will always need a buffer.
Actually, you are talking about a voltage regulator now.
Yes, the buffer output voltage will drift with temperature due to buffer offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close loop output
impedance is much less than its open loop ou
【在 w*****n 的大作中提到】
: 在一些paper中看到用bandgap的电路来作为其他电路的supply voltage。
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
You will always need a buffer.
Actually, you are talking about a voltage regulator now.
Yes, the buffer output voltage will drift with temperature due to buffer offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close loop output
impedance is much less than its open loop ou
【在 w*****n 的大作中提到】
: 在一些paper中看到用bandgap的电路来作为其他电路的supply voltage。
: 我的疑惑是有时看到将bandgap的输出连到pMos的source，可是从pMOS的source看过去
: 的等效电阻应该和bandgap的输出电阻
: 相比差不了多少，这样能行吗？温度一变化，bandgap输出就不稳定了吧。
e*b
32 楼
Shouldn't you read some textbook first, then tell us how bandgap works?
sources
out
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: that's right. the "gap" in "bandgap" refers to the difference between two
: Vbe (or Vgs in the fet world). in its simplest form, a bandgap is the
: difference between two Vbe driving by two different constant current sources
: . as Vbe is much more sentitive to Ibe (the current going through the
: junctions) than temperature, the differential in two Vbe simply cancels out
: any fluction caused by temperature.
sources
out
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: that's right. the "gap" in "bandgap" refers to the difference between two
: Vbe (or Vgs in the fet world). in its simplest form, a bandgap is the
: difference between two Vbe driving by two different constant current sources
: . as Vbe is much more sentitive to Ibe (the current going through the
: junctions) than temperature, the differential in two Vbe simply cancels out
: any fluction caused by temperature.
f*0
33 楼
definitely. But textbooks are too expensive so I usually read datasheet
instead.
bandgap comes in many shapes and forms but lm113 is probably some of the
best examples on how bandgap voltage reference work.
so here it is.
can your bandgap textbooks tell us how it works? specifically, Q1/Q2/Q4 and
Q7/Q9?
it may help if you simplifies the schematic a little bit but I will leave
that to you.
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: Shouldn't you read some textbook first, then tell us how bandgap works?
:
: sources
: out
f*0
34 楼
and if your textbooks are any good, they may also explain why Q3 and Q8's
bases are tied to Q2's base, and why R1/R4's values differ.
bases are tied to Q2's base, and why R1/R4's values differ.
e*b
35 楼
well, you thought you knew everything and argue with people everywhere, especially on Living board and automobile board. Actually, many of your previous posts here including this bandgap one does not make any sense.
The theory of bandgap is: with different current density through two PN junctions( the current does not have to be constant over temperature. these two current can drift with temperature. it is ok as long as the two current sources are matched), then the voltage drop on these two p
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: and if your textbooks are any good, they may also explain why Q3 and Q8's
: bases are tied to Q2's base, and why R1/R4's values differ.
The theory of bandgap is: with different current density through two PN junctions( the current does not have to be constant over temperature. these two current can drift with temperature. it is ok as long as the two current sources are matched), then the voltage drop on these two p
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: and if your textbooks are any good, they may also explain why Q3 and Q8's
: bases are tied to Q2's base, and why R1/R4's values differ.
w*n
36 楼
我知道是要用buffer的。用的话是不是还要考虑到驱动的问题，因为外电路会sink
current from buffer，这样会不会影响buffer的工作状态，使之不能正常工作？
offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have
to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply
voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close
loop output
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: I never saw anyone directly uses a bandgap as power supply.
: You will always need a buffer.
: Actually, you are talking about a voltage regulator now.
: Yes, the buffer output voltage will drift with temperature due to buffer offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close loop output
: impedance is much less than its open loop ou
current from buffer，这样会不会影响buffer的工作状态，使之不能正常工作？
offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have
to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply
voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close
loop output
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: I never saw anyone directly uses a bandgap as power supply.
: You will always need a buffer.
: Actually, you are talking about a voltage regulator now.
: Yes, the buffer output voltage will drift with temperature due to buffer offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close loop output
: impedance is much less than its open loop ou
e*b
37 楼
yes, you need to make sure it has enough driving capability, otherwise, it
could stop working under heavy load. That is a large signal concept. it has
nothing to do with the output impedance of the pmos as you asked before,
though.
have
close
【在 w*****n 的大作中提到】
: 我知道是要用buffer的。用的话是不是还要考虑到驱动的问题，因为外电路会sink
: current from buffer，这样会不会影响buffer的工作状态，使之不能正常工作？
:
: offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have
: to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply
: voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close
: loop output
could stop working under heavy load. That is a large signal concept. it has
nothing to do with the output impedance of the pmos as you asked before,
though.
have
close
【在 w*****n 的大作中提到】
: 我知道是要用buffer的。用的话是不是还要考虑到驱动的问题，因为外电路会sink
: current from buffer，这样会不会影响buffer的工作状态，使之不能正常工作？
:
: offset drift, unless you use chopper or autozero technique. why do you have
: to have constant supply voltage? It is not a problem for me if supply
: voltage changes .Typicallly, the buffer is in feedback operation. the close
: loop output
f*0
38 楼
"Then where does this constant current initially come from? tell me on the
picture you post, where does constant current come from?"
I am surprised that after finishing the analysis (which is correct by the
way), you still couldn't figure out that question by yourself.
lm113 is a constant voltage diode. through the banggap reference, it
maintains a constant voltage between terminal 1 and 2.
That voltage drop is also split between R1 and Q1 ('s Vbe), and R4 and Q2('s
Vbe). so the current going th
picture you post, where does constant current come from?"
I am surprised that after finishing the analysis (which is correct by the
way), you still couldn't figure out that question by yourself.
lm113 is a constant voltage diode. through the banggap reference, it
maintains a constant voltage between terminal 1 and 2.
That voltage drop is also split between R1 and Q1 ('s Vbe), and R4 and Q2('s
Vbe). so the current going th
f*0
39 楼
btw, the bandgap works without the feedback amplifier.
why do you need it then, smartie?
why do you need it then, smartie?
f*0
40 楼
especially on Living board and automobile board.
well, smartie, here is another bandgap. try to figure out how it works.
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: well, you thought you knew everything and argue with people everywhere, especially on Living board and automobile board. Actually, many of your previous posts here including this bandgap one does not make any sense.
: The theory of bandgap is: with different current density through two PN junctions( the current does not have to be constant over temperature. these two current can drift with temperature. it is ok as long as the two current sources are matched), then the voltage drop on these two p
e*b
41 楼
<<way), you still couldn't figure out that question by yourself.>>>
You tell me where the constant current come from!
<<
lm113 is a constant voltage diode? what are you talking bout? LM113 is a bandgap reference, it is NOT just a diode. There is no such kind of stuff called constant voltage diode.
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: "Then where does this constant current initially come from? tell me on the
: picture you post, where does constant current come from?"
: I am surprised that after finishing the analysis (which is correct by the
: way), you still couldn't figure out that question by yourself.
: lm113 is a constant voltage diode. through the banggap reference, it
: maintains a constant voltage between terminal 1 and 2.
: That voltage drop is also split between R1 and Q1 ('s Vbe), and R4 and Q2('s
: Vbe). so the current going th
You tell me where the constant current come from!
<<
lm113 is a constant voltage diode? what are you talking bout? LM113 is a bandgap reference, it is NOT just a diode. There is no such kind of stuff called constant voltage diode.
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: "Then where does this constant current initially come from? tell me on the
: picture you post, where does constant current come from?"
: I am surprised that after finishing the analysis (which is correct by the
: way), you still couldn't figure out that question by yourself.
: lm113 is a constant voltage diode. through the banggap reference, it
: maintains a constant voltage between terminal 1 and 2.
: That voltage drop is also split between R1 and Q1 ('s Vbe), and R4 and Q2('s
: Vbe). so the current going th
e*b
42 楼
Well, jerk, you tell me how it works. don't tell me those diodes are
constant voltage diode. that kind of thing does not exist at all. tell me
where that 1mA constant current come from and what is going to happen when Vs changes?
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: especially on Living board and automobile board.
: well, smartie, here is another bandgap. try to figure out how it works.
constant voltage diode. that kind of thing does not exist at all. tell me
where that 1mA constant current come from and what is going to happen when Vs changes?
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: especially on Living board and automobile board.
: well, smartie, here is another bandgap. try to figure out how it works.
e*b
43 楼
To completely make you shut up, here is what Bob Pease explained how
bandgap works.
"The beauty of the band-gap reference is the summation of the Vbe term,
which decreases at the rate of about -2 millivolts /°C, and the (delta-Vbe
term) which grows at about + 2 millivolts /°C, to achieve an overall
Temperature Coefficient (Tempco) that is substantially zero. ALL band-gaps employ this summation of a growing and a shrinking voltage, to make a stable low-tempco voltage."
Again, there is no such th
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: btw, the bandgap works without the feedback amplifier.
: why do you need it then, smartie?
bandgap works.
"The beauty of the band-gap reference is the summation of the Vbe term,
which decreases at the rate of about -2 millivolts /°C, and the (delta-Vbe
term) which grows at about + 2 millivolts /°C, to achieve an overall
Temperature Coefficient (Tempco) that is substantially zero. ALL band-gaps employ this summation of a growing and a shrinking voltage, to make a stable low-tempco voltage."
Again, there is no such th
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: btw, the bandgap works without the feedback amplifier.
: why do you need it then, smartie?
f*0
44 楼
"here is what Bob Pease explained how bandgap works. "
I didn't know that you impersonate others for a living.
I didn't ask bob peace how it works. I asked you how it works.
but I guess we know the answer, smartie.
I didn't know that you impersonate others for a living.
I didn't ask bob peace how it works. I asked you how it works.
but I guess we know the answer, smartie.
e*b
45 楼
难道Bob Pease在他的那个网页上没有这么说吗？ 难道你看不懂 Bob Pease的英文? 还是你觉得我给你的那个网页是我自己搞的，假称自己是Bob Pease?
我一点不吃惊你会继 续狡辩， 你在很多版上和很多不同的人狡辩， 这是你的一贯风格。
知之为知之，不知为不知， 真知也。古人都懂这个简单的道理。你还是不明白。在每个版面上每个问题上你都是以专家的姿态出现。
<<<: answer="" but="" guess="" i="" know="" smartie.="" the="" we="">>>
you should say you know the answer now! don't say WE. I knew how to design a bandgap many years ago. I designed several products with on chip bandgap. all those products had been released to the market.
<<
我一点不吃惊你会继 续狡辩， 你在很多版上和很多不同的人狡辩， 这是你的一贯风格。
知之为知之，不知为不知， 真知也。古人都懂这个简单的道理。你还是不明白。在每个版面上每个问题上你都是以专家的姿态出现。
<<<: answer="" but="" guess="" i="" know="" smartie.="" the="" we="">>>
you should say you know the answer now! don't say WE. I knew how to design a bandgap many years ago. I designed several products with on chip bandgap. all those products had been released to the market.
<<
f*0
46 楼
Vs changes?
I am happy to teach you how it works but smartie, where is the delta Vbe and
how does it add to Vbe to form the bandgap, jerk!
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: Well, jerk, you tell me how it works. don't tell me those diodes are
: constant voltage diode. that kind of thing does not exist at all. tell me
: where that 1mA constant current come from and what is going to happen when Vs changes?
f*0
47 楼
还是你觉得我给你的那个网页是我自己搞的，假称自己是Bob Pease?
you fairly accurately described yourself.
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: 难道Bob Pease在他的那个网页上没有这么说吗？ 难道你看不懂 Bob Pease的英文? 还是你觉得我给你的那个网页是我自己搞的，假称自己是Bob Pease?
: 我一点不吃惊你会继 续狡辩， 你在很多版上和很多不同的人狡辩， 这是你的一贯风格。
: 知之为知之，不知为不知， 真知也。古人都懂这个简单的道理。你还是不明白。在每个版面上每个问题上你都是以专家的姿态出现。
: <<<: answer="" but="" guess="" i="" know="" smartie.="" the="" we="">>>
: you should say you know the answer now! don't say WE. I knew how to design a bandgap many years ago. I designed several products with on chip bandgap. all those products had been released to the market.
: <<
f*0
48 楼
"That is measured by passing the amplifier output through a bandpass filter
with passband of 0.1Hz to 10Hz or 0.01Hz to 10Hz. Yes, we do use an analog
filters to do that. it works fine at this low frequency. go to take a look
at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
I scanned through the datasheet quickly but failed to see the superduper
filter you referrenced. and would love to see how it is constructed.
so where is it on that datasheet?
"I am not very smart."
that's
with passband of 0.1Hz to 10Hz or 0.01Hz to 10Hz. Yes, we do use an analog
filters to do that. it works fine at this low frequency. go to take a look
at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
I scanned through the datasheet quickly but failed to see the superduper
filter you referrenced. and would love to see how it is constructed.
so where is it on that datasheet?
"I am not very smart."
that's
e*b
49 楼
你不停的说Widlar bandgap 的 (delta vbe /R5 ) 是恒定电流，现在你解释一下为什么这是恒定电流. (delta vbe/R5)=kT/q *ln(n)／R5, 这个电流显然和绝对温度成正比， 你不要东拉西扯，直接回答我这个问题！
不管你用什么样的bandgap结构，(delta vbe/R) 电流都是和绝对温度成正比。 利用 delta vbe 的 正温度系数 去补偿 vbe 的 负温度系数，这是bandgap的基本原理， 你连这个都不懂，还有脸在这里诡辩。 按照你的说法， Bob Pease说的 bandgap 原理是骗人的， 所有的教科书说的 bandgap 原理都是骗人的, 只有你懂，只有你说的才是真理。你狡辩的招术已经超越轮子的水平了。见过皮厚的，没见过象你这么厚颜无耻的。
你给Bob Pease 发个邮件，看看那个是不是他的网页。 你自己萎缩，以为别人和你一
样萎缩，搞个假的网页？所谓人如其名，难怪你的ID这么萎缩。
那个０.1HZ ~10Hz noise 参数你没看见？datasheet都不会看？教你怎么设计滤波器？ 象你这么蠢的，教了你, 你
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: "That is measured by passing the amplifier output through a bandpass filter
: with passband of 0.1Hz to 10Hz or 0.01Hz to 10Hz. Yes, we do use an analog
: filters to do that. it works fine at this low frequency. go to take a look
: at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
: I scanned through the datasheet quickly but failed to see the superduper
: filter you referrenced. and would love to see how it is constructed.
: so where is it on that datasheet?
: "I am not very smart."
: that's
不管你用什么样的bandgap结构，(delta vbe/R) 电流都是和绝对温度成正比。 利用 delta vbe 的 正温度系数 去补偿 vbe 的 负温度系数，这是bandgap的基本原理， 你连这个都不懂，还有脸在这里诡辩。 按照你的说法， Bob Pease说的 bandgap 原理是骗人的， 所有的教科书说的 bandgap 原理都是骗人的, 只有你懂，只有你说的才是真理。你狡辩的招术已经超越轮子的水平了。见过皮厚的，没见过象你这么厚颜无耻的。
你给Bob Pease 发个邮件，看看那个是不是他的网页。 你自己萎缩，以为别人和你一
样萎缩，搞个假的网页？所谓人如其名，难怪你的ID这么萎缩。
那个０.1HZ ~10Hz noise 参数你没看见？datasheet都不会看？教你怎么设计滤波器？ 象你这么蠢的，教了你, 你
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: "That is measured by passing the amplifier output through a bandpass filter
: with passband of 0.1Hz to 10Hz or 0.01Hz to 10Hz. Yes, we do use an analog
: filters to do that. it works fine at this low frequency. go to take a look
: at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
: I scanned through the datasheet quickly but failed to see the superduper
: filter you referrenced. and would love to see how it is constructed.
: so where is it on that datasheet?
: "I am not very smart."
: that's
f*0
50 楼
" (delta vbe/R5)=kT/q *ln(n)／R5, 这个电流显然和绝对温度成正比， 你不要东拉
西扯，直接回答我这个问题！"
OK, you stated that the Delta Vbe has a temperature coefficient of +2mv/c.
how does the above equation show that?
"利用 delta vbe 的 正温度系数 去补偿 vbe 的 负温度系数，这是bandgap的基本原
理，"
it is one of the principles of a bandgap. or you wouldn't explain how the
two diode strings form a "bandgap".
你连这个都不懂，还有脸在这里诡辩。 "
按照你的说法， Bob Pease说的 bandgap 原理是骗人的， 所有的教科书说的 bandgap
原理都是骗人的, "
that's because of your moronic comprehension of what I said.
只有你懂，
西扯，直接回答我这个问题！"
OK, you stated that the Delta Vbe has a temperature coefficient of +2mv/c.
how does the above equation show that?
"利用 delta vbe 的 正温度系数 去补偿 vbe 的 负温度系数，这是bandgap的基本原
理，"
it is one of the principles of a bandgap. or you wouldn't explain how the
two diode strings form a "bandgap".
你连这个都不懂，还有脸在这里诡辩。 "
按照你的说法， Bob Pease说的 bandgap 原理是骗人的， 所有的教科书说的 bandgap
原理都是骗人的, "
that's because of your moronic comprehension of what I said.
只有你懂，
e*b
51 楼
你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流， 你解释一下是不是恒定电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
k= 1.38*10^(-23)
q= 1.6*10^(-19)
如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: " (delta vbe/R5)=kT/q *ln(n)／R5, 这个电流显然和绝对温度成正比， 你不要东拉
: 西扯，直接回答我这个问题！"
: OK, you stated that the Delta Vbe has a temperature coefficient of +2mv/c.
: how does the above equation show that?
: "利用 delta vbe 的 正温度系数 去补偿 vbe 的 负温度系数，这是bandgap的基本原
: 理，"
: it is one of the principles of a bandgap. or you wouldn't explain how the
: two diode strings form a "bandgap".
: 你连这个都不懂，还有脸在这里诡辩。 "
: 按照你的说法， Bob Pease说的 bandgap 原理是骗人的， 所有的教科书说的 bandgap
delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
k= 1.38*10^(-23)
q= 1.6*10^(-19)
如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
【在 f*****0 的大作中提到】
: " (delta vbe/R5)=kT/q *ln(n)／R5, 这个电流显然和绝对温度成正比， 你不要东拉
: 西扯，直接回答我这个问题！"
: OK, you stated that the Delta Vbe has a temperature coefficient of +2mv/c.
: how does the above equation show that?
: "利用 delta vbe 的 正温度系数 去补偿 vbe 的 负温度系数，这是bandgap的基本原
: 理，"
: it is one of the principles of a bandgap. or you wouldn't explain how the
: two diode strings form a "bandgap".
: 你连这个都不懂，还有脸在这里诡辩。 "
: 按照你的说法， Bob Pease说的 bandgap 原理是骗人的， 所有的教科书说的 bandgap
w7
52 楼
eejob: Looks like that you're really into the analog field. Good job for the technical part of the whole argument.
Don't know this bandgap part is still used or not today but LM10 that is designed by Bob is still being the off-the-shelf part today.
j*j
53 楼
do not need to argue anymore...
anyone who knows a little bit ic design will know who is correct,
.
电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如
果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是
－２mv/C
。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU
bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You stinky dumb ass! FKU, that is your name!
处被人骂成是神经病的蠢东西，你说的话，会有人当真吗?
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: 你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流， 你解释一下是不是恒定电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
: delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
: d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
: k= 1.38*10^(-23)
: q= 1.6*10^(-19)
: 如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
: 188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
: 在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
: 不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
anyone who knows a little bit ic design will know who is correct,
.
电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如
果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是
－２mv/C
。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU
bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You stinky dumb ass! FKU, that is your name!
处被人骂成是神经病的蠢东西，你说的话，会有人当真吗?
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: 你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流， 你解释一下是不是恒定电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
: delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
: d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
: k= 1.38*10^(-23)
: q= 1.6*10^(-19)
: 如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
: 188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
: 在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
: 不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
w7
54 楼
I still have a couple of questions here:
1. In the schematic of LM113, the collector of the far right transistor Q9
is connected to R9. But for me that looks more reasonable if the collector
of Q9 is directly hooked to the top rail "1". Q4/Q7/Q9 form a negative
feedback loop to force the voltage between "1" and "2", which is the output
voltage of this bandgap ckt. At this point, the schematic in Bob Pease'
article is as same as what I think. I can't appreciate why the Q9 is hooked
that way.
2. I
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: 你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流， 你解释一下是不是恒定电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
: delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
: d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
: k= 1.38*10^(-23)
: q= 1.6*10^(-19)
: 如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
: 188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
: 在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
: 不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
1. In the schematic of LM113, the collector of the far right transistor Q9
is connected to R9. But for me that looks more reasonable if the collector
of Q9 is directly hooked to the top rail "1". Q4/Q7/Q9 form a negative
feedback loop to force the voltage between "1" and "2", which is the output
voltage of this bandgap ckt. At this point, the schematic in Bob Pease'
article is as same as what I think. I can't appreciate why the Q9 is hooked
that way.
2. I
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: 你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流， 你解释一下是不是恒定电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
: delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
: d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
: k= 1.38*10^(-23)
: q= 1.6*10^(-19)
: 如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
: 188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
: 在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
: 不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
f*0
55 楼
"on page 3 at http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa333.pdf
that's a nice catch! But our wizkid suggested that the opa2244 datasheet
showed that so I am still looking for it to tell me where it is in that
opa2244 datasheet. My old eyes aren't seeing it.
"NOISE
Input Voltage Noise, f = 0.01Hz to 1Hz 0.3 μVPP
Input Voltage Noise, f = 0.1Hz to 10Hz 1.1 μVPP
Input Current Noise, f = 10Hz in 100 fA/ÖHz""
those are nice figures but the datasheet gave no indication of how it is
mesured, specifical
that's a nice catch! But our wizkid suggested that the opa2244 datasheet
showed that so I am still looking for it to tell me where it is in that
opa2244 datasheet. My old eyes aren't seeing it.
"NOISE
Input Voltage Noise, f = 0.01Hz to 1Hz 0.3 μVPP
Input Voltage Noise, f = 0.1Hz to 10Hz 1.1 μVPP
Input Current Noise, f = 10Hz in 100 fA/ÖHz""
those are nice figures but the datasheet gave no indication of how it is
mesured, specifical
f*0
56 楼
"你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流，"
I am sorry but you are fighting with an imagined animal. I never said that
delta vbe / r5 is constant current. but I guess in order to win an argument
you are desparate.
"delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
k= 1.38*10^(-23)
q= 1.6*10^(-19)
如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C"
I was commenting on your notion that delta Vbe has a tempco of +2mv/c. I
pointed out to you that delta Vbe d
I am sorry but you are fighting with an imagined animal. I never said that
delta vbe / r5 is constant current. but I guess in order to win an argument
you are desparate.
"delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
k= 1.38*10^(-23)
q= 1.6*10^(-19)
如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C"
I was commenting on your notion that delta Vbe has a tempco of +2mv/c. I
pointed out to you that delta Vbe d
f*0
57 楼
the attached schematic may help explain how the "simple diode" bandgap works.
it is essentially an unbalanced "current mirror". I1 > I2, and Vbeq1 > Vbeq2
. so the output voltage on R3, which is the Vbe differential between Q1 and
Q2, has a much lower but positive tempco.
this is what Bob Peace referred to as the "brutal force" bandgap.
you can run the bandgap much better if you input it with constant current
over the rail, by connecting the rail to a power source with a CCS or simply
with a res
it is essentially an unbalanced "current mirror". I1 > I2, and Vbeq1 > Vbeq2
. so the output voltage on R3, which is the Vbe differential between Q1 and
Q2, has a much lower but positive tempco.
this is what Bob Peace referred to as the "brutal force" bandgap.
you can run the bandgap much better if you input it with constant current
over the rail, by connecting the rail to a power source with a CCS or simply
with a res
f*0
58 楼
the widlar bandgap recognized the positive but small TC for delta Vbe and
tried out to lay it on top of a Vbe (which has a negative TC).
so the voltage drop over R2, V2=I2*R2=(delta Vbe / R3)*R2. by adjusting R2/
R3, you can give it a tempco that is "roughly" +2mv/c.
the Vout = V2+Vbe (for Q3), and by trimming R2/R3, you get a Vout that has a
0 TC.
the brokaw design is roughly the same except that it runs both legs of the
unbalanced "current mirror" at the same current - it is driven by a curren
tried out to lay it on top of a Vbe (which has a negative TC).
so the voltage drop over R2, V2=I2*R2=(delta Vbe / R3)*R2. by adjusting R2/
R3, you can give it a tempco that is "roughly" +2mv/c.
the Vout = V2+Vbe (for Q3), and by trimming R2/R3, you get a Vout that has a
0 TC.
the brokaw design is roughly the same except that it runs both legs of the
unbalanced "current mirror" at the same current - it is driven by a curren
f*0
59 楼
output
hooked
the pease article is for simplified schematic. yes, your design would work
but having a resistor (R9) there lowered the gain of the super linear pair (
Q7/Q9) (thus improves the stability) and also limits the amount of current
that can go through Q9.
correct on both accounts.
【在 w7 的大作中提到】
: I still have a couple of questions here:
: 1. In the schematic of LM113, the collector of the far right transistor Q9
: is connected to R9. But for me that looks more reasonable if the collector
: of Q9 is directly hooked to the top rail "1". Q4/Q7/Q9 form a negative
: feedback loop to force the voltage between "1" and "2", which is the output
: voltage of this bandgap ckt. At this point, the schematic in Bob Pease'
: article is as same as what I think. I can't appreciate why the Q9 is hooked
: that way.
: 2. I
f*0
60 楼
"从现在开始，就当你是一堆狗屎，我看到就绕开。反正你每天吃饱了，就在网上诡辩
，难怪经常看到你在 Living board 被大家骂的狗血喷头。是很多人骂你傻逼，不是一
两人骂你。骂你的帖子太多了，就列举两个吧，你自己再去回顾一下，想想为什么大家
都忍不住会骂你傻逼。别告诉我是因为他们嫉妒你的“渊博知识”。
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Living/31192137_0.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Living/31175475_0.html"
what I hope you will understand by now is that the fact that people disagree
with you doesn't make you wrong (or right for that matter). if you think
your arguments have merits, lay them out logically and try to have a civil
discussion.
y
，难怪经常看到你在 Living board 被大家骂的狗血喷头。是很多人骂你傻逼，不是一
两人骂你。骂你的帖子太多了，就列举两个吧，你自己再去回顾一下，想想为什么大家
都忍不住会骂你傻逼。别告诉我是因为他们嫉妒你的“渊博知识”。
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Living/31192137_0.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Living/31175475_0.html"
what I hope you will understand by now is that the fact that people disagree
with you doesn't make you wrong (or right for that matter). if you think
your arguments have merits, lay them out logically and try to have a civil
discussion.
y
h*y
61 楼
.......what r u doing
f*0
62 楼
是铁证如山。
I am sorry. What did I say exactly in that post and how did it contradict
with what I said earlier?
could you please lay it out for me?
f*0
63 楼
let me just answer one of your questions and then you will get a flavor of
how far off you are:
"3. 如果我们有一个constant current source, 那它肯定不应该随温度，power
source 变化而变化，对吧。总之，就应该总是constant, 对吧？"
what is "constant" is relative. a typical constant current source for
examples uses a series of diodes or zener or a LED to drop a "constant"
voltage off a resistor, in a fashion very similar to the widlar bandgap
topology.
in such a design, you consider the forward voltage off the diodes / zener /
led to be co
how far off you are:
"3. 如果我们有一个constant current source, 那它肯定不应该随温度，power
source 变化而变化，对吧。总之，就应该总是constant, 对吧？"
what is "constant" is relative. a typical constant current source for
examples uses a series of diodes or zener or a LED to drop a "constant"
voltage off a resistor, in a fashion very similar to the widlar bandgap
topology.
in such a design, you consider the forward voltage off the diodes / zener /
led to be co
f*0
64 楼
"That is non-sense! For many OpAmps and Instumentation Amplifiers, one
important specification is noise between 0.1Hz to 10Hz, or 0.01Hz to 10Hz.
That is measured by passing the amplifier output through a bandpass filter
with passband of 0.1Hz to 10Hz or 0.01Hz to 10Hz. Yes, we do use an analog
filters to do that. it works fine at this low frequency. go to take a look
at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
sorry for being persistent but where did the opa2244 datashee
important specification is noise between 0.1Hz to 10Hz, or 0.01Hz to 10Hz.
That is measured by passing the amplifier output through a bandpass filter
with passband of 0.1Hz to 10Hz or 0.01Hz to 10Hz. Yes, we do use an analog
filters to do that. it works fine at this low frequency. go to take a look
at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
sorry for being persistent but where did the opa2244 datashee
f*0
65 楼
"我问你那么多很简单的问题，怎么你就不敢回答呢？"
no reason to blow so hard like your evil twin brother blowjob (aka eejob). I
thought answering half-assed questions is quite demeaning to everyone here
so I just answered one, hoping that you would be smart enough to figoure out
the rest yourself. guess I overestimated your intelligence.
"我就觉得奇怪了，..."
no reason to be so challenged by such a simple thing. if me, a "hr lady" can
figure it out, you an blowjob can certainly figure it out.
did you take a look at the widlar c
no reason to blow so hard like your evil twin brother blowjob (aka eejob). I
thought answering half-assed questions is quite demeaning to everyone here
so I just answered one, hoping that you would be smart enough to figoure out
the rest yourself. guess I overestimated your intelligence.
"我就觉得奇怪了，..."
no reason to be so challenged by such a simple thing. if me, a "hr lady" can
figure it out, you an blowjob can certainly figure it out.
did you take a look at the widlar c
f*0
66 楼
wow, I never realized that your reading comprehension is so challenged.
so let me ask the question again so hopefully you will get 50% of it this
time:
where in opa2244's datasheet (that you quoted) that TI suggested a) its
noise spec for 0.1hz - 10hz, and b) its use of an analog filter for such a
spec?
since you are so challenged that I will give you until Sunday to figure out
the correct answers.
嘿。
other than blowjob and copy-and-paste, what else are you capable of? :)
but seriously, have yo
f*0
67 楼
"3. 如果我们有一个constant current source, 那它肯定不应该随温度，power
source 变化而变化，对吧。总之，就应该总是constant, 对吧？"
since you continue to be challenged by the simple notion that what's
constant is relative, could you please allow me to help?
here is a simple link to an article by Nelson Pass (whom you undoubtedly
have never had the fortune to hear but it surfaces to say that he commands
much more authority than you do on anything electronics) on opamps.
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/diyopamp.pdf
later in the article, Pass
source 变化而变化，对吧。总之，就应该总是constant, 对吧？"
since you continue to be challenged by the simple notion that what's
constant is relative, could you please allow me to help?
here is a simple link to an article by Nelson Pass (whom you undoubtedly
have never had the fortune to hear but it surfaces to say that he commands
much more authority than you do on anything electronics) on opamps.
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/diyopamp.pdf
later in the article, Pass
f*0
68 楼
to save you the pain of finding out what a CCS is, please take a look at the
attached.
you will notice that a) they are all quite similar in topology; and b) one
of them is identical to the widlar constant current source.
the same / similar designs are commonly accepted by those who know and used
in many highly successful and publically known designs, unlike those highly
secretive designs by a certain "bandgap" expert, :).
Class dismissed.
attached.
you will notice that a) they are all quite similar in topology; and b) one
of them is identical to the widlar constant current source.
the same / similar designs are commonly accepted by those who know and used
in many highly successful and publically known designs, unlike those highly
secretive designs by a certain "bandgap" expert, :).
Class dismissed.
f*0
69 楼
sorry for being persistent but where did the opa2244 datasheet suggest that
a) such a spec is used and b) it is measured with an analog filter?
I am still waiting for your answers, Mr. blowjob.
【在 e***b 的大作中提到】
: 你不要东拉西扯，你一直坚持delta vbe／R5 是恒定电流， 你解释一下是不是恒定电流，如果是，为什么？我都问你好几次了，你就知道东扯西扯，一直解释不了。你如果解释不了，就闭上你的臭嘴。
: delta vbe = kT/q*ln(n)
: d(delta vbe)/dT = k/q*ln(n)
: k= 1.38*10^(-23)
: q= 1.6*10^(-19)
: 如果正确的设置Q1和 Q2 发射极 的 比例 或者 电流密度 ，让 (R4/R5)*1n(n)=２３.
: 188, 你自己去算一下 d(delta vbe)/dT *(R4/R5) 是不是 +２mv/C
: 在Widlar bandgap 中， R4/R5 是 delta vbe 的 增益. 不管你用什么结构，总是要正确的选择这个增益，让 delta vbe * gain = +2mv/ C, 因为 vbe 的温度系数大约是 －２mv/C
: 不管谁问什么问题,你总是以专家的姿态出来解答，尽管你连电路的基本知识都没有。象你这种蠢东西，还是滚回你的化粪池里，别在这里误导这里的年轻人，你那个FKU bandgap 理论根本就是狗屁不通。 You
f*0
70 楼
"Yes, we do use an analog filters to do that. it works fine at this low
frequency. go to take a look at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
so Mr. Blowjob, where in the opa2244 datasheet did TI suggest that a) the
chip's noise performance in the 0.1hz - 10hz range? and b) where did TI
suggest that such performance is measured with an analog filter?
and how far along have you in understanding the patented Widlar current
source which you so forcefully disputed as inval
frequency. go to take a look at some datasheets: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2244.pdf"
so Mr. Blowjob, where in the opa2244 datasheet did TI suggest that a) the
chip's noise performance in the 0.1hz - 10hz range? and b) where did TI
suggest that such performance is measured with an analog filter?
and how far along have you in understanding the patented Widlar current
source which you so forcefully disputed as inval
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