about film Troy-The absence of the Gods - 未名空间MITBBS历史存档

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about film Troy-The absence of the Gods

about film Troy-The absence of the Gods# Translation - 译林

l*y2004-05-18 07:05

1 楼

The absence of the Gods (or the good sense of the critics)
Raking my too old memory of Homer’s Iliad, I can dimly remember the gods on
Mount Olympic, holding their solemn councils, strolling around palace Sunday
martinis in hand, worrying about their own affairs, be it woman or ruling
power or compensation of lost face; maybe there’re some benign and idealistic
ones, who look down upon the battle-fields and shake their heads at the men
below gutting each other, helping themselves with loots and

n*e2004-05-18 07:05

2 楼

well... that's kind of the whole point, the Olympians are Gods for themselves,
not for the people. They were apathetic at their best, and down right cruel
and atrocious when they are mad, which can be whenever and nobody knows why.
That's how Greeks perceived the divinity. Same with the Trojan war, They were
not here to help, they were here to revenge over trivial discord. The whole
war started because of a dispute over who's "the fairest" at a party. That's
why the story has in its heart a deep

【在 l***y 的大作中提到】

: The absence of the Gods (or the good sense of the critics)
: Raking my too old memory of Homer’s Iliad, I can dimly remember the gods on
: Mount Olympic, holding their solemn councils, strolling around palace Sunday
: martinis in hand, worrying about their own affairs, be it woman or ruling
: power or compensation of lost face; maybe there’re some benign and idealistic
: ones, who look down upon the battle-fields and shake their heads at the men
: below gutting each other, helping themselves with loots and

l*y2004-05-18 07:05

3 楼

i am not against a wish to make troy similar to what peter jackson has done
with lotr, but even peter jackson did some hollywood low blows such as
screwing over faramir, which nobody seemed to care about. this selective
righteousness, more than anything else, got me snapped... as to the girl
thing,
i'd like to say some more, later...

themselves,
were
on
Sunday
idealistic
men
but
besotted
else.
noble
and
by
let
the
allow
and in

【在 n******e 的大作中提到】

: well... that's kind of the whole point, the Olympians are Gods for themselves,
: not for the people. They were apathetic at their best, and down right cruel
: and atrocious when they are mad, which can be whenever and nobody knows why.
: That's how Greeks perceived the divinity. Same with the Trojan war, They were
: not here to help, they were here to revenge over trivial discord. The whole
: war started because of a dispute over who's "the fairest" at a party. That's
: why the story has in its heart a deep

n*e2004-05-18 07:05

4 楼

Unlike many critics of this movie who think they themselves hold the key
to Greek mythology and whoever dares to inteprete the Myth in his own way
needs to be strike down without mercy, i applauded this movie for its effort
to deliver the story in the light of a deep tragedy without involving the
Gods. But there lies the difficulty of justification: If the two sides of the
war were not fighting for the Gods, what were they fight for? So Agamemnon had
to fight for power, Melenaus had to fight for

【在 l***y 的大作中提到】

: i am not against a wish to make troy similar to what peter jackson has done
: with lotr, but even peter jackson did some hollywood low blows such as
: screwing over faramir, which nobody seemed to care about. this selective
: righteousness, more than anything else, got me snapped... as to the girl
: thing,
: i'd like to say some more, later...
:
: themselves,
: were
: on

l*y2004-05-18 07:05

5 楼

as to mythology, --let me beat the dead horse one more time, these larger-
than-life deity charactors, their stories is passed down by low-lives such as
homer. as much an admirer to their imagined gradeur, homer used them to tell
the battle of troy. everyone with different higher-ups on his head can draw
upon
their experience reservoir to relate to it. who cares about Agamemnon, (or,
rather, who wants to risk his neck speaking about him), when you can have the
mighty Zeus? this is the crux of my

【在 n******e 的大作中提到】

: Unlike many critics of this movie who think they themselves hold the key
: to Greek mythology and whoever dares to inteprete the Myth in his own way
: needs to be strike down without mercy, i applauded this movie for its effort
: to deliver the story in the light of a deep tragedy without involving the
: Gods. But there lies the difficulty of justification: If the two sides of the
: war were not fighting for the Gods, what were they fight for? So Agamemnon had
: to fight for power, Melenaus had to fight for

n*e2004-05-18 07:05

6 楼

The way i see it, Homer didn't invent the Gods so he can tell the story
of Troy in a more dramatic way, and nobody aruges the fact that the Greek
Gods are the most humane Gods ever, and again, the Greeks didn't invent
the Gods to help them in their battle with nature, which is the normal
purpose for deity in other cultures, they invent the Gods so they can
explain the cruelty of life in general. Nietzsche said, in his very first
book, that the Greeks celebrate Dionysus not as a festival God, but

【在 l***y 的大作中提到】

: as to mythology, --let me beat the dead horse one more time, these larger-
: than-life deity charactors, their stories is passed down by low-lives such as
: homer. as much an admirer to their imagined gradeur, homer used them to tell
: the battle of troy. everyone with different higher-ups on his head can draw
: upon
: their experience reservoir to relate to it. who cares about Agamemnon, (or,
: rather, who wants to risk his neck speaking about him), when you can have the
: mighty Zeus? this is the crux of my

l*y2004-05-18 07:05

7 楼

of course homer didn't invent the gods. nor was there no such thing
as interlectual property at his time, i think. and it seems like no
one thinks he single handedly dreamed up the battle of troy, either.
but myth in general give us a frame of reference, and everyone can
make his own art out of it. yes. we know that. you don't look upon
de venci's last supper and just shrug and say yet another dipction
of christain lore, a cheap tradeoff at that, one that replaced great
pathos, deep significants

【在 n******e 的大作中提到】

: The way i see it, Homer didn't invent the Gods so he can tell the story
: of Troy in a more dramatic way, and nobody aruges the fact that the Greek
: Gods are the most humane Gods ever, and again, the Greeks didn't invent
: the Gods to help them in their battle with nature, which is the normal
: purpose for deity in other cultures, they invent the Gods so they can
: explain the cruelty of life in general. Nietzsche said, in his very first
: book, that the Greeks celebrate Dionysus not as a festival God, but

or2004-05-18 07:05

8 楼

maybe they can't find enough beautiful stars to play gods and godesses...

idealistic
besotted
let
allow
in

【在 l***y 的大作中提到】

n*e2004-05-18 07:05

9 楼

I don't really see how the Da Vinci metaphor came about and what it
refers to, maybe it's a criticism on the automatic criticism by the
"self-righteous" critics on any adaptation works? :) "Self-righteous"
is a word that always come back and bite you so let's steer clear of
that.
about LOTR, Faramir did feel the temptation of possessing the ring when
he encountered Frodo, Sam and Gollum. or at least that's how i remembered

【在 l***y 的大作中提到】

: of course homer didn't invent the gods. nor was there no such thing
: as interlectual property at his time, i think. and it seems like no
: one thinks he single handedly dreamed up the battle of troy, either.
: but myth in general give us a frame of reference, and everyone can
: make his own art out of it. yes. we know that. you don't look upon
: de venci's last supper and just shrug and say yet another dipction
: of christain lore, a cheap tradeoff at that, one that replaced great
: pathos, deep significants

l*y2004-05-18 07:05

10 楼

never really understand the metaphor industry. =/
as to self-righteous, yes, let us keep clear. my original
wording is a 'selective righteous', a righteousness that is
turned on and off upon occassion. a zealot is a fanantic,
but a person with selective righteousness is an invester.
or maybe the critics have amnesia. it is not entirely
impossble.
please don't mind me, i am just whining here.

【在 n******e 的大作中提到】

: I don't really see how the Da Vinci metaphor came about and what it
: refers to, maybe it's a criticism on the automatic criticism by the
: "self-righteous" critics on any adaptation works? :) "Self-righteous"
: is a word that always come back and bite you so let's steer clear of
: that.
: about LOTR, Faramir did feel the temptation of possessing the ring when
: he encountered Frodo, Sam and Gollum. or at least that's how i remembered

l*y2004-05-18 07:05

11 楼

there's that... =)

on
Sunday
men
but
else.
noble
and
by
the
and

【在 or 的大作中提到】

: maybe they can't find enough beautiful stars to play gods and godesses...
:
: idealistic
: besotted
: let
: allow
: in