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关于给孩子的免税gift的问题
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关于给孩子的免税gift的问题

jyang1
楼主 (文学城)

各位老师:按2023年的规定,你可以给一个人$17,000美元,而不用缴gift tax。夫妇就可以给同一个人$34,000。不仅是钱,也可以是股票。那么理财专家说,如果给孩子股票,那么孩子卖了股票的Profit也不用缴税。

我这里有一个问题,比如我有两个孩子,我们夫妇给两个孩子每人上满$34,000的股票。我的问题是:可不可以从老二的这个账户给他哥哥姐姐钱,使得他哥哥姐姐一年有了$68,000去缴学费什么的(注意我这么做看重的是股票收益不交税,我已经知道家长给孩子付学费是不算作gift的了,但是想把股票转给孩子)。然后几年后等哥哥姐姐毕业了,哥哥姐姐再把自己那每年$34,000也给弟弟妹妹缴学费?

这里的难点主要是:老二是未成年人,minor。不知道这种操作行不行。

Thanks in advance!

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柠檬椰子汁
2 楼
哎,有小聪明没有大智慧。

1. breach of fiduciary duty for the younger child. 

Once you gifted the money to your younger child into his UGMA, it is his money and you are merely acting as a fiduciary (受托人).  I don't think your younger child could give a informed decision of giving away his/her money to his/her sibling, so essentially you are stealing his/her money to give them to your older child.  

You don't need to laugh, you are trying to get around $17000 gift tax allowance, so we are in legal domain. 

2.  evasion of taxation

If it is shown that you performed bad act (such as breach of fiduciary duty), the finding of evasion of taxation is the next step. 

3.  It is unnesessary to do what you did.   Gift tax exemption is 11 million per person. 

Every year you can gift $17,000 to anyone WITHOUT any tax consequences.  However, it doesn't mean any gift above $17000 is taxable.   In US federal tax code, gift tax is combined with estate tax that has an exemption of 11 million per person.    That is to say, you can give away 11 million during your life time OR after your death, without paying gift/estate tax.  

So if you give your older child $37000 per year, the $17,000 is completely invisible to tax return.  The $20000 ($37-17) has to be reported in your tax return gift form 709, and it will be added up every year.  If your lifetime accumulated gift amount is less than 11 million, you don't have to pay any gift tax when you are live.   After your death, your estate will be combined with all the gifts you reported during your lifetime (remember that's after $17000 annual gift allowance), and if the amount is less than 11 million, your estate don't pay any estate tax. 

 

 

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jyang1
3 楼
Thanks a lot!

这里的关键是卖股票的收益如何合理合法避税。如果我把股票给孩子,他们是不是就可以不用缴capital gain tax了呢?

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delta2020
4 楼
你这么做的目的是想干什么呢?gift免税免的是遗产税,联邦税和酬睡可并没有面。
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柠檬椰子汁
5 楼
You have to die.

In general when gifting a property, donee (your child) recevies the cost basis of the donor.  

The only time the donee doesn't pay capital gain tax is the one time when they inherit from your estate after your death.  This is called step-up basis.   

You need to sharpen up your googling skills.  All these answers are readily available if you do a simple search.  e.g."capital gain tax stock gift".   In this information age there is no reason not to do a search before you ask other people.  What you did was going down the wrong path and designed a very flawed scheme on false assumptions, and then I'd have to unwind your flawed scheme and false assumptions.  Next time when you think of an idea, verify the basic premise before you build a house of cards. 

 

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jyang1
6 楼
再没说的了!聪明、简洁、一针见血!英文标准、准确!遇上高人了!我竟然也这样说别人,您应该知道“隔行如隔山”……

外行人就连用什么关键字在google上搜索都不知道,所以,您见谅吧。愚弟中美名校计算机毕业,号称搜索大王,远远超过所有人,能从网上犄角旮旯抠出信息,但仍然不得已到文学城请教高人,就说明了跨行业的局限性!

But if this capital gain thing is below the young man's standard deduction (since he doesn't have any other income), it's tax free right?

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jyang1
7 楼
就是某理财专家说,把股票给孩子,ta卖了,就省了capital gain tax

这是因为你给孩子gift可以免gift tax,如楼上说的,其实一辈子可以免1100万美元,那孩子本身大学生没收入,ta卖了股票的captial gain只要低于standard deduction(两万美元左右),就可以不交税是吧。

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柠檬椰子汁
8 楼
以后先google一下在说话

https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/how-pay-zero-percent-tax-rate-capital-gains

这一招还是薯老爷几年前在这里宣扬的。几个月前薯老爷冒了一个泡怎么又不见了?

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dogmom2019
9 楼
行不通, 小的不成年, 卖的股票盈利算是大人的, 只有等到他21岁独立了卖的盈利算在他头上,税率几乎没有因为他收入与
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dogmom2019
10 楼
他21岁时收入几乎没有
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柠檬椰子汁
11 楼
可以分开报税。
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dogmom2019
12 楼
理财专家通常不建议这样,等他21岁, 你就失去这笔钱的控制权,一到21岁,账号你就不能access。
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dogmom2019
13 楼
21岁以下分开报税也不行, gift account是custodian account, 赚的钱还是算在父母头上
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julie116
14 楼
为省税把孩子养懒了更不划算
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hhtt
15 楼
哪个理财专家?把名字给报上来!如果是你朋友,立马断了!这是要把你送入监牢的感觉?
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Runnymede
16 楼
you are absolutely correct.

Minors Capital gain, interest income more than $2200, report on parent's return

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江水草
17 楼
kiddie tax

What tax rate will my child pay?

The IRS sets specific limits on the type of income and the tax rates. Earned income will be taxed at the child's rate above their applicable standard deduction, which is equal to their earned income plus $400 (or $1,250, whichever is greater), up to a maximum of $13,850 in 2023. But investment income is a more complicated formula. Unearned income from interest, dividends, and capital gains are taxed in tiers defined by the IRS.

For a child with no earned income, the amount of unearned income up to $1,250 is not taxed in 2023. The next $1,250 is taxed at the child's rate. Any amount above $2,500 is taxed at the parents' rate.

These rules cover children under the age of 18, and also those up to the age of 24 who are full-time students.

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jyang1
18 楼
非常感谢大家的回复,本人受益匪浅!!!我一定也要给本坛做贡献!
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jyang1
19 楼
这个回答跟题目无关,实际上又不是孩子在管理这个账户,虎妈止步
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新年好运
20 楼
也就是拿着股票和房子,直到S时娃继承开始算新cost basis
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Lucky_man
21 楼
Ask google, lol
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jianchi9090
22 楼
生活费不算gift吧。肯定超一万7了。
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jianchi9090
23 楼
我指孩子大学得生活费。
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柠檬椰子汁
24 楼
你一年给娃的生活费超过34000?
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EagerBeaver
25 楼
这理财顾问把gift tax 和 income tax

全搅和一块儿了。 害人!

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未知
26 楼
方向是对的,但原因是错的。原因是Kiddie Tax, 不是custodian account

custodian account算在孩子头上,不是父母头上,但孩子的税率,因为kiddie tax, 按父母税率缴。

IRS Topic No. 553, Tax on a Child's Investment and Other Unearned Income (Kiddie Tax): 

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc553

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