特别策划 | 王小雨：Born to be global，出海新加坡创业的故事 （双语）

在大家的眼里，王小雨是个直爽、真实的创业者，在创业道路上成长着，也享受着。在她的世界中，世俗的框架变得很少，她努力活出自己想要成为的样子。大家都亲切的称她小雨同学。

十二月，一个阳光明媚的早晨，我们有幸采访到了她。小雨着披肩长发红色衬衫，如她红火、温暖、热情的性格，秀美的大眼睛里流露着执著与正直，对着我们，露出了小雨牌笑容。热带新加坡热烈的阳光，穿透玻璃，像一捧金沙似得，洒落在她身上，小雨变得和它一样明亮。

一杯清茶续后，小雨讲述了她从中国走向世界的创业故事。

王小雨在北京大学读本科时学的是心理学，但她对编程有浓厚的兴趣，从大学开始就自学代码编程、设计软件、3D 建模，大三开始在校外接一些外包工作，也会开发一些app，自己成立了一个小工作室。但她没从是否要创业的角度考虑，单纯只是为了赚钱，她一直认为只有经济独立了，才能有自由的可能性。

Renee Wang studied psychology as an undergraduate at Peking University, but she has a strong interest in programming and self-taught herself coding, design software, and 3D modelling during college. She started taking on contract work outside of school during her junior year, and also developed a bunch of apps and set up a small studio on her own. But she didn't think in terms of whether she wanted to start her own business, but instead simply wanted to make money, She always believed that only when she was financially independent, she could have the possibility of actual freedom.

大学毕业后，王小雨加入了一家叫友盟的创业公司做前端工程师，这家公司后来被阿里收购了，她算是友盟早期的第七个员工，从此她加入到了生机勃勃的移动互联网创业的大环境中，她开始觉得创业挺有意思的，但是因为她自身学术背景不是计算专业，而且在创业公司呢，感觉自己缺少平台视野，在友盟做了一年工程师后，跳槽到了谷歌中国。

After graduation, Renee Wang joined Umeng as a frontend engineer, She was the 7th employee of Umeng, which was later acquired by Alibaba. It was the early stages of the mobile internet, and she joined the vibrant environment of entrepreneurship. She began to find entrepreneurship quite interesting, but because her own academic background was not in computing, she felt that she lacked perspective from a large platform. After a year of working as an engineer at Umeng, she joined a big company, Google China, to gain knowledge first.

王小雨在在谷歌工作四年时间，前两年在中国国内，后面两年主要在海外。她从那个时候开始理解全球市场，在谷歌，她服务过4000多位开发者，从前期的推广到产品研发运营，再到帮助开发者在全球市场上变现。

Renee worked at Google for four years, the first two years in China and then the remaining time overseas. From that time, she started to understand the global market. At Google, she has served more than 4,000 developers, from pre-promotion to product development and operations, to helping developers monetize in the global market.

在谷歌工作期间，她认为有几件事对创业是很有帮助的，第一她认为在 Google 工作的性价比很高，工作本身基本上不太需要加班，但是她还是工作很努力，经常会做份外的任务，也会在公司内部学习各种产品文档。尤其在爱尔兰 Google 工作的时候，欧洲工作氛围不喜欢别人加班，她每次下班先和同事一起回家，然后等7点左右再溜回来公司工作到半夜。

The cost-benefit of working at Google is very high, and the job itself basically does not require much overtime, but she still works very hard, frequently taking on extra tasks and studying various internal product documents. Especially when she was working at Google in Ireland, she found that the European work environment did not like people working overtime, so she would pretend to go home just like all her colleagues, and then went back to the company around 7pm to work late into the night.

除了完成本职工作外，小雨还利用业余时间录制 Youtube 视频，讲解 Android 开发应用。在此过程中她积累了很多作为开发者应有的技能。到了2015年，她觉得积累的差不多了，就从谷歌日本辞职，并创办了Guru公司。

In her spare time, she continued to develop applications, and even recorded YouTube videos explaining Android development. In the process, she accumulated many skills that are expected of a developer. By 2015, she felt that she had accumulated enough, so she resigned from Google Japan and founded Guru.

其实，2008年的移动互联网，就是具有全球化属性的。那时，谷歌还没退出中国，安卓系统里的谷歌商城（google play）的设置是只要发布一个app，就会全球发布 ，当时没有分不同国家或区域。简单说来，当时只要开发一个游戏，自然而然就会有全球的用户去下载使用。

In fact, the mobile Internet in 2008 was global in nature. At that time, Google had not exited from China yet, and the setting of Google Play on the Android system was that as long as an app was released, it would be released globally, and there was no division into different countries or regions at that time. Simply put, as long as a game was developed at that time, it would naturally be downloaded and used by users all over the world.

那个时候，小雨还在谷歌，她利用平时业余时间写了个小游戏，还上过泰国游戏总榜的第一。当时她只是做了个英语版本，整个交互语言都很少，而全球化就是个很自然发生的事情。在谷歌海外工作这几年，小雨也一直在学习怎么做全球化，如何使不同的应用在不同的国家更好服务本地用户。所以她在创业后一直选择海外市场，也是自然而然的事情。

At that time, Renee was still at Google, and she used her spare time to develop a small game, which rose to #1 in the overall game list in Thailand. It only had an English version, and the amount of language interaction in the app was limited, but globalization was a natural thing. During her time working at Google overseas, Renee has been learning both how to globalize and also how to localize different applications in different countries. So, it was natural for her to choose the overseas markets when starting her business.

谈到为什么选择音频赛道时，小雨说，这个方向的选择比较偶然。2015年最后一天，她和朋友参加跨年演讲，朋友提到，苹果商城里有原生的Podcast 产品，但是 Google Play 上没有，每次听都很麻烦，建议小雨在创业时可以考虑这个方向；而小雨平时通勤或者运动的时候也喜欢听有声内容，她也认同Podcast有声内容似乎是最好的选择。所以在2016年的元旦放假 1月1日开始，小雨找了个开源软件作为基础进行开发，4天后就开发出第一个版本音频app上线了。上线之后数据表现还不错，两个月就实现下载量100万次，她决定把其他还在尝试的app都停掉了，全心聚焦在 Castbox 上。后来围绕这 Castbox，我们沉淀了中台技术和运营能力，又增加了更多的方向和业务线。

When discussing why she chose this direction, Renee said, it happened a bit accidentally. On the last day of 2015, she and her friend attended a New Year’s Eve speech. He mentioned Apple has its own native podcast app, but Google Play does not. And that listening to podcasts on Android was difficult, so maybe there’s was an opportunity here? As for Renee, when she was commuting or exercising, she always liked listening to things that provided informational value, and in this case, podcasts were the perfect audio content medium for this. So on January 1, 2016, on New Year’s Day, she started working on this idea. She found an open source software as the basis for development, and after 4 days, released the first version of Castbox. After the initial release, the data looked promising, as Castbox reached 1 million downloads in two months. So she stopped work on all the other apps, and focused on Castbox. In the years since, with all the work she has put in to build Castbox, she accumulated quite a bit of middle platform technology and operations capabilities, and added many more directions and business lines.

小雨谈到自己的创业历程，笑着说，她算是草根创业，对于公司CEO来说，一般就是找人找钱找方向了，她当时遇到的情况是“三没”：“没人、没钱、没方向”。

When talking about her entrepreneurial journey, Renee smiled and said, she kind of started a grassroots business, and the most important jobs of a CEO are to recruit people, find money, and find direction. But when she started off, she had no one, no money, and no direction.

没人怎么办？创业的前半年时间，基本上公司全职员工就只有她自己一个人，但会有很多朋友来帮忙。那段时间，她基本上每天就是在写代码中度过的，每天都会写到凌晨一两点。Castbox的第一个版本也全是出自她手。所以对于“没人”这个事，她全是自己在扛的。后来，公司慢慢步入正轨了，也有很多经验更足、能力更强的人加入到了团队里。团队也一直持续在找更好的人，希望更有战斗力。

What if there is no one? For the first six months of her entrepreneurial journey she was the only full-time employee, but she had many friends who came to help her from time to time. During that period, she basically spent all her time on coding, working until 1 or 2 a.m. every day. The first version of Castbox was completely designed by Renee. So at the beginning when there was "no one", she was all on her own. Later, as the Company slowly got on track, many more experienced and capable people joined the team. Now the team has been continuously looking for higher quality people, hoping to be more battle-ready.

小雨谈到创业初期找融资也不是很顺利，所以她把早期利用写代码做开发的广告收入在北京买的房卖掉了，把卖房子的钱都往自己的公司里投，包括租办公室，支付朋友兼职的工资，购买电脑设备等。这段难忘的经历，也是她收获到的人生财富。

Renee said that the initial stage of the business was not very smooth. From her college days, she had earned enough money from coding and development to buy a house in Beijing. However, she sold the house and invested all the proceeds into the Company, which included renting an office, paying her friends  wages for part-time work, buying computer equipment, etc... This unforgettable experience also provided invaluable wisdom in life.

后来Castbox走上了正轨后，慢慢的就有投资人来了，在融资方面相对顺利很多，接着到了2016年、2017年以及2018年的上半年，这几年的资本市场行情比较好，所以之后财务方面就不需要她自己再补贴了。小雨谈到，自己还是处在创业的状态中，还是希望物善其用、财尽所值。

Later, after Castbox was on the right track, investors came, and it was relatively smoother in terms of financing. During 2016, 2017 and the first half 2018, the capital markets were relatively good, so after that she did not need to continue putting up her own money into the business. Renee talked about how she is still in a state of entrepreneurship and still hopes to make the best use of things, and find the best value for money.

谈到没方向怎么办时，小雨说到，最开始做Castbox的时候，初期聚焦在podcast的方向，但是做了几年发现遇到一个很大的瓶颈，因为Castbox主要是做内容。但是，美国的内容特别贵，已经超过她的融资能力了。竞争对手，如Spotify，买一个节目就可能花费1亿美金，每年的花在内容上的预算就是billion级别的，Castbox在这方面没办法与之竞争。怎么解决这个难题？小雨谈到，她在Castbox上，还是积累了很多中台的能力，包括数据运营及营销、变现等方面的能力，在此基础上，她又增加了更多的产品线，比如游戏、工具类。她说，这也更多的是一种自救的表现。从最初的产品线到Castbox，再到依靠中台能力和运营能力构建的泛娱乐方向的产品线。

When discussing what to do without a direction, Renee said that when she started Castbox, she initially focused on the direction of podcast. But after a few years, she encountered a big bottleneck; Castbox mainly focus on content. Content costs in the United States are particularly expensive and she could not finance content production. Competitors, such as Spotify, would spend $100 million on a single show, and have annual budgets for content up to a billion dollars, so there is no way for Castbox to compete in this area. How then can you solve this problem? Renee said she had accumulated quite a bit of middle platform capabilities from Castbox, including data analysis, operations, marketing, monetization, etc... On top of that, she developed more product lines, such as games and tools. This is also more of a self-help capability, she said. From the initial product line to Castbox, and then to the product line in the direction of pan-entertainment built on the ability of the middle platform and operation.

王小雨谈到，她擅长的是移动互联网这个方向，就这个赛道而言，市场前景最好的还是在中国，因为中国是一个统一文化、语言，市场增长快，用户规模大，用户分层又比较多的市场，不管什么产品都能找到自己的市场。中国过去几十年GDP也是增长很快。她当时做海外市场的时候，也有投资人问过，“中国增长这么快，做海外会不会错过这些增长？”类似的问题。从现实结果来看，答案确实是的。因为欧美市场虽然GDP比较高，但增长是缓慢的。资本在选择的时候，不会在乎中国或美国市场，资本更在乎的是哪个公司能更快的去成长。所以说从成长的斜率上看，欧美是慢的。

Renee said that she is not too familiar with other industries, but for the Internet and mobile Internet industries, the best market prospect is still in China. China is a market with a unified culture and language, fast growth, large user scale, and diverse user stratification, so any type of product can find their own market. China's GDP has also grown rapidly over the past few decades. Some investors also ask her, "China is growing so fast, won’t you miss out on all this growth if you focus on the overseas market?" In terms of realistic results, the answer is indeed yes. Although GDP is higher in European and American markets, the growth is slower. When capital is selecting a company, it doesn't care whether it’s in the Chinese or U.S. market; Capital only cares about which company can grow the fastest. And the slope of growth in the European and the United States markets is slower than that of China.

谈到东南亚市场时，小雨说，东南亚市场有所不同，东南亚增长很快，用户结构也很年轻化。但东南亚的问题在于ARPU（Average Revenue Per User每用户平均收入）值比较低，人均GDP低于新加坡，但新加坡的市场又比较小。如果想做东南亚市场，比较好的方法是准备好足够多的弹药，使企业撑到整个经济体发展起来。

In talking about the Southeast Asian market, Renee said that it is different. Southeast Asia is a fast-growing market and has a younger user demographic. However, the ARPU (Average Revenue Per User) is relatively low, and the GDP per capita is lower than that of Singapore. But for Singapore, its issue is that the market is small. If a company wants to explore the Southeast Asian market, then it needs to prepare enough ammunition for the company to last until the entire economy develops.

公司发展要确定自身定位的战略思考方向，使用“点线面体” 框架思维模式：一个“点”的努力，比如像自己个人就是个努力的个体，同时也希望团队每个成员都是上进；“线”，假设有不同的产品线，有的产品增长快，团队的成员也能成长更快一点，获得更大；"面" 指的是平台或生态型企业所从事的行业，小雨谈到，自己的企业主要聚焦点在移动互联网，这是企业所依附的“面”；最后这个“体”指的是经济体，企业是在东南亚这个经济体发展呢还是聚焦欧美这个经济体。这些都是每个企业在明确定位，决定企业发展方向的第一步。

The development of the company must determine the strategic thinking direction of its own positioning, and use the "point-line-face-body" conceptual model: a "point" effort, such as an individual who works hard, and also hopes that every member of the team is motivated; " line", assuming that there are different product lines, some products grow faster, and team members can grow faster and gain more; "face" refers to the industry in which the company platform or ecosystem is a part of. Renee said, her company mainly focuses on mobile Internet industry, which is the "face" that the company is attached to; the last "body" refers to the economy. Does the company develop in the Southeast Asian economy or focus on the European and American economies? These are the first steps for each company to define its positioning and determine the direction of company development.

每个经济体，就如小雨说到的，有优势也有短板。欧美，短板的一面就是发展速度慢，但优势是用户粘性更强，企业只要愿意下功夫深耕，一旦积累到一定体量之后有可能出现从量变到质变的爆发式增长；东南亚经济体的短板在于用户价值现在会低，但是，优势在于增长快，企业可以快速的提高认知进而迭代产品，如果能等到经济体发展起来的时候，就会产生杠杆，可以利用此去leverage。

Each economy, as Renee mentioned, has advantages and shortcomings. For Europe and the United States, one shortcoming is the slow development speed, but the advantage is that the user stickiness is stronger, as long as the company is willing to put effort into deep discovery. Once there is the accumulation of a certain amount of traffic, it can quickly explode into exponential growth; The disadvantage of Southeast Asian economies is that user value is low. However, the advantage lies in the rapid growth of users. Companies can quickly improve their awareness and iterate products. If they can wait until the economy develops, leverage will be generated.

所以企业出海东南亚也好，出海欧美也罢，本质上还是认清经济体的本质。能不能有耐心去深耕，如果企业有足够的耐心，也很享受现在做的事情，喜欢他们呈现出来的文化，只要有耐心，任何一个市场都有很好的一面。

So, whether companies go overseas to Southeast Asia or Europe and the United States, the essence is to recognize the nature of the economy. If the company has enough patience, enjoys what they are doing, likes the culture that they present, then there are opportunities in any market.

企业一旦出海，竞争对手就不仅是其他的中国企业家，而是要面对全球的企业家，在跟全球不同国家、地区的企业家比拼的时候，要知道企业本身的优势在哪。小雨认为，中国在供应链积累上以及工程师红利等方面，都是不能忽视的优势。她还提到，重视优势，也要补齐短板，但不足的方面可以慢慢在磨练中补齐。对于企业家来说，核心还是要思考企业本身的优势，与其他国家的企业比起来，能让企业在国际市场上站稳脚跟的优势，这才是最重要的因素。

Once a company goes overseas, its competitors are not only other Chinese entrepreneurs, but all global entrepreneurs. When competing with entrepreneurs from different countries and regions around the world, it is important to understand the advantages of the company. Renee believes that China's advantages are its mature supply chain as well as its vast pool of cost-efficient engineers. She also mentioned that it is important to pay attention to the advantages but also to make up for the shortcomings. But the disadvantages can be slowly made up through grinding it out. For entrepreneurs, what’s important is still to think about the advantages of the company itself. The most important factor is to think about things that can allow the company to stand firm in the global markets.

小雨谈到，企业出海除了打好基本功外，第二点是做好本地化，理解用户的需求。识别目标用户，发现用户未被满足的需求，在此基础上定义企业的价值主张，或者考虑如何在痛点、痒点上锦上添花，提供更符合当地需求的产品和服务，所以出海企业家格局要再大一些，要在全球范围内建立企业的竞争力。

Renee said, in addition to playing the basics well, companies also need to consider localization and understanding the needs of users, discover the users' unmet needs, define the value proposition of the company, and consider pain points on its own products. Entrepreneurs need to consider a bigger picture when going overseas, and build the competitiveness of the company in a global context.

小雨团队在不同国家也设置了办公室，对比下来，她觉得中国的团队是最勤奋的，她认为这是很值得中国出海企业家骄傲的地方。企业家时刻保持保持空杯心态，虚心的学习、不断迭代自己的认知，尊重本地用户，尊重要做的市场，一定都会有所收获的。

Renee’s team has also set up offices in different countries. By comparison, she thinks that the Chinese team is the most diligent, which she believes is something that Chinese entrepreneurs going overseas should be proud of. Entrepreneurs always maintain an empty cup mentality, learn humbly, constantly iterate their own cognition, respect local users, and respect the market they are going into. There will always be something that can be gained.

小雨本科在北京大学就读，获得心理学系本专业和数学双学位。毕业后，每年都会坚持选择不同课程学习。可以说，她一直在“自卷”的道路上终身学习着。

Renee studied at Peking University as an undergraduate, and received a dual degree in psychology and statistics. After graduation, she has been taking different courses every year. It can be said that she has been on a lifelong learning journey.

2022年，小雨加入新加坡国立大学EMBA项目。入学以来，小雨感受到了新国大求真务实的学术氛围，傅强教授的《亚洲与全球经济》抽丝剥茧，在纷繁复杂的全球经济环境下，拨云见月看到事情的本质；傅强教授妙语连珠、精彩纷呈、干货满满，课程内容既有理论深度、又生动有趣，被他独有的授课风格以及国际化视角分析所折服，惊叹老师的广智博见。

In 2022, Renee joined NUS EMBA program. Professor Fu Qiang's "Asia and the Global Economy" is a very interesting lecture with a unique teaching style and international perspective. She was impressed by his unique teaching style and international perspective and analysis, and marveled at the teacher's extensive wisdom and insight.

乌耀中教授的《商业分析与决策》让大家知道，原来做决策的时候会有很多谬误，这就是人性，这就是人性的弱点，也是我们思维的局限，可能是藏在我们基因里的东西，但是，一旦意识到了，就能知道自己的边界，就能在做重大决策的时候，保持开放、谦逊的心态听取别人的意见。在课堂上，乌老师不断通过各种谬误、各种理论告诉我们，每个人都是一个有短板的人，我们需要理解也接纳自己的不足，然后在与愿意用更开放的心态，获取更多的信息，真正检验自己。

Professor Wu Yaozhong's " Business Analytics and Decision Making" class let everyone know that there are many fallacies when making decisions. This is human nature, and the weakness of human nature, and it is also one of our limitations. It may be something hidden in our genes. However, once we realize it, we can find our own limitations, and keep an open and humble mind to listen to other people's opinions when making major decisions. In class, Prof. Wu kept telling us through various fallacies and theories that everyone is a person with shortcomings. We need to understand and accept our own shortcomings, and then we are willing to use a more open mind to obtain more information to really examine ourselves.

小雨说，每个学段四天的课程对她来说起到“索引“的作用，老师一生中的学术和智慧，通过四天的课程，把学科的广度与同学们分享，大家从中可以明白自己感兴趣的部分进而深入学习。EMBA教授的思维理念及开阔的视野都使她的思维得到了提升，看待问题获得更高的视角。

Renee said that the four-day course in each section plays an "index" role for her. Through the four-day course, the academic knowledge and wisdom of the professors will be shared with students. Everyone can learn and understand something from it. The EMBA professors' ideas and broad perspectives have enhanced her thinking and given her a greater perspective on issues.

芒格提到过栅格理论，就是在自己的专业上可以持续的深入学习，但是如果可以跨学科看一些其他的知识，也会加深对自己专业更深入和多元的理解。小雨作为公司的创始人和CEO，希望在商业理论和实践上可以持续的精进；但是也希望可以从其他学科获取营养，帮助她更好理解事物的本质和世界的运行规律。

Munger mentioned the raster theory, that is, one can continue to learn deeply in their own profession, but if one can look at other knowledge across disciplines, it will also provide a deeper and more diversified understanding of one's own profession. As the founder and CEO of the company, Renee hopes she can continue to refine her business theory and practice; however, she also hopes to get ideas from other disciplines to help her better understand the nature of things and the way the world works.

谈到兴趣爱好时，小雨说，平常她会徒步、踢球、打篮球、游泳，也有撸铁和跳钢管舞。她认为，运动倒不是为了融入新加坡社会，而是因为创业压力很大，面临太多的挫折和挫败感。但凡容易解决的事情也不会轮到她来处理，所以到她手上的基本都是麻烦的事情，她每天都会焦虑担忧公司的未来，每天都在考虑公司有没有在正确的轨道上、组织力是否能够支持未来发展的方向，还有哪些潜在风险，这些思考都会让她有焦虑的情绪。规律的运动可以分泌多巴胺，有更强大的心力迎接挑战。

When it comes to hobbies, Renee said she usually likes to hike, play soccer and basketball, swim, lift weights and pole dancing. All of these activities weren’t to assimilate into Singaporean society, but mainly because there is a ton of pressure starting a company, and facing too many setbacks and frustrations. Things that are easy to solve are not her problem. Only the most difficult, troublesome tasks come to her. Every day, she worries about the future of the Company. “Are we on the right track? Can our organizational structure support the direction that we are going? What potential risks are there?” All of these thoughts make her anxious. Regular exercise helps produce dopamine, which allows for stronger mental strength to take on these challenges.

她认为，融入新加坡肯定不是目的，目的还是希望公司可以发展更好，自己可以不断突破认知边界。新加坡非常的开放，有很多的有价值的信息，也有很多非常优秀的人。与他们在一起交流能够很好的扩展自己的认知，学习这些优秀人的思考角度和行为方式，她很享受和大家在一起的时光，同时也愿意有利他的行为，随着时间的推衍，就自然而然的融入新加坡的圈子。

She said, assimilating into Singapore is definitely not the goal. The goal is for the Company to continue growing, and that she can continue to break through her own cognitive boundaries. Singapore is a very open-minded country, and there is a lot of valuable information here, as well as many excellent people. When she has discussions with them, she can expand her own cognition and understanding. She can learn the behaviors, as well as the process of thinking of these outstanding people. She really enjoys the time spent with everyone, and at the same time, she’s willing to act altruistically, so naturally she can assimilate into Singaporean society.